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Lannister concerns. Game is unbalanced.


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#21 jhagen

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 09:59 AM

21 ** Is there a combat? if NO, skip to line 30

should read :

21 ** Is there a combat? if NO, skip to line 40

feel free to copy and paste this to a txt file and print out.



#22 jhagen

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 10:21 AM

the issue is not with the lore (as nice as that is) or the gameplay (thats good too). IT's the freaking playtesting. I played a half dozen games beforeit was clear that Greyjoy facerolled Lannister.

In the hands of a dilligent and capable player. Lannisport falls on turn 2.(on a muster)

No diplomacy needed, cause noone can reach Lannister to help them.

FIRST MOVE, 2nd turn and Lannister's game is done.

 

I suggest using Lannister,Stark,Tyrell and Martell for 4 player games. Add Baratheon for 5 player. and placing the Martell 5-man garrison in Riverrun for 6player games.



#23 goldbach

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:42 PM

I think I addressed this in my second post (yes, I forgot about Balon in my first post).  Greyjoy can take Riverrun in hist first turn.  However, they cannot hold it in the second turn -- unless they commit their entire army to doing do, and if they do, then Seagard is open to an attack from Stark -- and Eddard Stark has two swords.

In the first few turns, Lannister can focus 100% of their attention on Greyjoy.  Greyjoy is forced to focus their attention on both Lannister and Stark.  Greyjoy can absolutely make the game miserable for Lannister -- but not if they want to win.  It's the mutually assured destruction that should keep Greyjoy in check.



#24 jhagen

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 04:28 AM

goldbach said:

I think I addressed this in my second post (yes, I forgot about Balon in my first post).  Greyjoy can take Riverrun in hist first turn.  However, they cannot hold it in the second turn -- unless they commit their entire army to doing do, and if they do, then Seagard is open to an attack from Stark -- and Eddard Stark has two swords.

it is unfortunate you have not played with skilled players.

Stark has no reason to overextend themselves to Seagard. Stark has no hopes of holding it. save for attaining the 7th castle for victory on his push turn. otherwise support of it can be cut too easily.

and yes Greyjoy can hold Riverrun 2nd turn against Lannister.

for example:

Assume Lannister both musters and consolidates for 3 knights in lannisport. and attacks riverrun with a +1 token from lannisport for a total of +7

Greyjoy:


Seagard supports with a knight (2 total strngth)

Ironman's bay supports with a ship (3)

Riverrun has 1 knight and 1 siege (thats 5, and now you have Balon to tie and have the sword on top of that to boot)

then the whole shabang has to retreat back to Lannisport and then Greyjoy resolves his march order and takes Lannisport with a knight. and destroys all 3 routed knights. and takes the 2 ships for his own.

As for mutually assured destruction, that is laughable at best since Greyjoy has 4 castles and strongholds withiin 1 move of riverrun. and they own lannisport first move of turn 2. and there will be 1 lannister unit on board with your strategy. excellent work.

 



#25 cadleo

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:05 AM

jhagen said:

the issue is not with the lore (as nice as that is) or the gameplay (thats good too). IT's the freaking playtesting. I played a half dozen games beforeit was clear that Greyjoy facerolled Lannister.

In the hands of a dilligent and capable player. Lannisport falls on turn 2.(on a muster)

No diplomacy needed, cause noone can reach Lannister to help them.

FIRST MOVE, 2nd turn and Lannister's game is done.

 

I suggest using Lannister,Stark,Tyrell and Martell for 4 player games. Add Baratheon for 5 player. and placing the Martell 5-man garrison in Riverrun for 6player games.

 

My group gave this game another chance last night and switched out Greyjoy for Tyrell. This made the game feel much more balanced and even though one of our players is a chaotic wild man most the time AND we made him take the Lannisters, he still did decent and the overall feel was much better. Im not gonna bog it down with stats or a blow by blow. Baratheon did still seem to be in the best position but it get it to within acceptable levels so we can enjoy a strategy game in this genre.

Jhagen, I am intrigued by your 4 player setup and I think I will offer that up next time to see if it will improve it further.



#26 Hopper2k

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 06:41 PM

 Disclaimer: I have played once and it was as baratheon. I am not intimately familiar with each card but believe I have a grasp.

It has been clearly stated that lannister can not hold riverrun in the first turn against a determined greyjoy, and jhagen has posted the "surefire" strategy to always win riverrun first turn and destroy lannister. 

Using Jhagen's script, the greyjoy has placed march - 1 on his ship and march - 0 on pike.  

Meanwhile, lannister placed march - 1 on stoney sept, support +1 on golden sound, and march +1 on lannisport. 

 

Please remember: Lannister acts first on the first turn and may play 3 * order tokens. 

Order of events in action phase:

Lannister resolves the march -1 to move the footman into lannisport.

Greyjoy resolves march +0 to move knight into riverrun and footman into seagard.

Lannister resolves march +1 into riverrun with 1 knight and 2 footman. (4+1 = 5 strength). support +1 is added from golden sound (now 7 strength). Kevan lannister is used (I am not sure if he is 2 or 3 or 4 strength but its irrelevant). Kevan adds 2 more strength for the footmen (9 strength) and lets say 2 for himself (11 str). 

So greyjoy has played damphair and may pay 2 power to switch him out for... balon greyjoy? balon would increase the knights strength to 4 total and reduce lannister strength to 9. Euron would increase greyjoy strength to 6 but leave lannister at 11. Even if greyjoy had marched both the footman AND the knight into riverrrun this would be insufficient to withstand the lannister attack. 

Actually, the support isnt even required in golden sound. You can play a defense + 2 in golden sound. That way when greyjoy attacks golden sound he is starting at -1 to your +2 and he no longer has aeron damphair so might have to blow balon or euron.

 

Anyway, if someone can tell me where I am wrong, feel free. Sure, its a lot of effort to win riverrun but thats a stronghold for you and 1 less for greyjoy. 

 

Also, dont forget lannister has the raven and can switch out one of those orders if he sees something different shape up. Finally, the lannister player should be making every overture to stark to take advantage of a preoccupied greyjoy and start moving in from the north.

 



#27 Spike1382

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 07:49 PM

 I was worried when I saw that this area of the map looked so much like the first edition. This was the #1 issues that needed to be fixed. #2, that Baratheon Has it too easy has also been mentioned. That neither of these have been addressed undermines the entire point of even making a second edition.



#28 jhagen

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 09:04 AM

Hopper2k said:

 Disclaimer: I have played once and it was as baratheon. I am not intimately familiar with each card but believe I have a grasp.

It has been clearly stated that lannister can not hold riverrun in the first turn against a determined greyjoy, and jhagen has posted the "surefire" strategy to always win riverrun first turn and destroy lannister. 

Using Jhagen's script, the greyjoy has placed march - 1 on his ship and march - 0 on pike.  

Meanwhile, lannister placed march - 1 on stoney sept, support +1 on golden sound, and march +1 on lannisport. 

 

Please remember: Lannister acts first on the first turn and may play 3 * order tokens. 

Order of events in action phase:

Lannister resolves the march -1 to move the footman into lannisport.

Greyjoy resolves march +0 to move knight into riverrun and footman into seagard.

Lannister resolves march +1 into riverrun with 1 knight and 2 footman. (4+1 = 5 strength). support +1 is added from golden sound (now 7 strength). Kevan lannister is used (I am not sure if he is 2 or 3 or 4 strength but its irrelevant). Kevan adds 2 more strength for the footmen (9 strength) and lets say 2 for himself (11 str). 

So greyjoy has played damphair and may pay 2 power to switch him out for... balon greyjoy? balon would increase the knights strength to 4 total and reduce lannister strength to 9. Euron would increase greyjoy strength to 6 but leave lannister at 11. Even if greyjoy had marched both the footman AND the knight into riverrrun this would be insufficient to withstand the lannister attack. 

Actually, the support isnt even required in golden sound. You can play a defense + 2 in golden sound. That way when greyjoy attacks golden sound he is starting at -1 to your +2 and he no longer has aeron damphair so might have to blow balon or euron.

 

Anyway, if someone can tell me where I am wrong, feel free. Sure, its a lot of effort to win riverrun but thats a stronghold for you and 1 less for greyjoy. 

 

Also, dont forget lannister has the raven and can switch out one of those orders if he sees something different shape up. Finally, the lannister player should be making every overture to stark to take advantage of a preoccupied greyjoy and start moving in from the north.

 

thanks for your input, and save for a point here or there your counter to the script is sound with regards to it.

But remember, you are countering my script only. with respect to a all out assault on Lannister.

Historically (in now close to 2 dozen games played with only one 3 player game) Lannister token orders are:

Golden sound = raid or support

Lannisport = march +1 or consolidate*

stoney sept = march +0 or support +1

Lannister either tries for riverrun with the knight from Lannisport with support from the sound, or just spreads out taking as many open lands as he can.

stoney sept almost always rolls into harrenhal for the guaranteed muster point.

after a few games the Lannister player realizes the futility of trying for riverrun and just consolidates in Lannisport to stave off the iron tide.

 The counter to your move orders is to:

consume march -1 token in Ironmans bay and not move, allow Lannister to roll into riverrun. then faceroll them once they land.

kev lannister is useless on the defense. so the lone knight from Pike can land. follow script for card playing.

.....

next!

 



#29 goldbach

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:33 PM

Again, Greyjoy can take and hold Riverrun from Lannister, provided they want to commit 100% of their army to doing so.  The problem is that doing so leaves their flank open to Stark, who can take Seagard (and kill a unit or two in the process).  Once Stark removes the support from Riverrun, it leaves it open to an attack from Lannister.

I find it difficult to believe that a "skilled" Greyjoy player can defend on two fronts.  I also find it difficult to believe that a "skilled" Stark player, when seeing the opportunity to damage their most powerful neighbor, would not take advantage.  Stark can absolutely take and hold Seagard, especially considering the damage he and Lannister can do to Greyjoy's army when taking Seagard and Riverrun.  It's hard to mount a counterattack when your army has been killed.

Greyjoy has to defend two fronts almost immediately, and is the only player that has to do so.  That is why they need more powerful cards than the other players.

A central piece of strategy in this game is for each player to provide a check on their neighbors.  If your neighbor is committing a lot of troops to attacking their other neighbor, then you should take advantage of the weakened front and attack them.  That is what a skilled Stark should do.  Otherwise, if Greyjoy becomes powerful at Lannister's expense, then Greyjoy will go for Winterfell, and win the game.  A skilled Stark should not let Greyjoy get too powerful too easily.



#30 jhagen

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 07:24 AM

goldbach said:

Again, Greyjoy can take and hold Riverrun from Lannister, provided they want to commit 100% of their army to doing so.  The problem is that doing so leaves their flank open to Stark, who can take Seagard (and kill a unit or two in the process).  Once Stark removes the support from Riverrun, it leaves it open to an attack from Lannister.

I find it difficult to believe that a "skilled" Greyjoy player can defend on two fronts.  I also find it difficult to believe that a "skilled" Stark player, when seeing the opportunity to damage their most powerful neighbor, would not take advantage.  Stark can absolutely take and hold Seagard, especially considering the damage he and Lannister can do to Greyjoy's army when taking Seagard and Riverrun.  It's hard to mount a counterattack when your army has been killed.

Greyjoy has to defend two fronts almost immediately, and is the only player that has to do so.  That is why they need more powerful cards than the other players.

A central piece of strategy in this game is for each player to provide a check on their neighbors.  If your neighbor is committing a lot of troops to attacking their other neighbor, then you should take advantage of the weakened front and attack them.  That is what a skilled Stark should do.  Otherwise, if Greyjoy becomes powerful at Lannister's expense, then Greyjoy will go for Winterfell, and win the game.  A skilled Stark should not let Greyjoy get too powerful too easily.

sigh.

play the game with stark more than 2 times and you will see what is the standard play for stark:

turn 1.

march +0 in winterfell

consolidate(*) in white harbor

ship march +1 in shivering sea

this is to spread out to power icons to command the bidding tracks, make a quick bid for adjacent sea areas to barratheon and build a ship unit in port to support it.

OR

Consolidate(*) in winterfell

march +0 in white harbor

ship march +1 in shivering sea

similar to the above strategy, white harbor moves to moat carin. and winterfell builds ships on both coasts to support agains barratheon and greyjoy.

 

Stark cannot win the game with arms, (he would have to take seagard or harrenhal to hit 7 victory points)

but he can control the game with his massive supply of power icons and easily defended borders. easily hit 5 or 6 victory for the final turn for a sleeper win.

what stark cant do is take and hold seagard. it is a bottleneck attack from moat carin. (which is starks ONLY support location) and can be assaulted and supported from no less that 2 other adjacent regions possessed by Greyjoy in the first turn.

Starks objective (long term) is to hold his own against greyjoy and barratheon, take the northern provinces, stockpile massive armies. then pounce late game for the burst to 7 victory.

 



#31 goldbach

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 02:14 PM

I agree with you in general about Stark's long-term strategy -- it's just that they are very unlikely to achieve that goal if Greyjoy gets too powerful too quickly. 

Having won as Stark multiple times, I must say that I'm not a fan of the first turn Mustering in Winterfell.  There's a 5/9 chance that Mustering will occur after Round 1 anyway, which reduces the advantages gained by doing so quite a bit.  I prefer to march the units out of Winterfell and grab resources -- including moving my Knight to Moat Cailin.  I agree with you that moving the boat to the Narrow Sea is a must.

The scenario in which Stark takes and holds Seagard is the scenario in which Greyjoy is overextended into both Riverrun and Seagard.  Greyjoy cannot defend both, and will take casualties -- thus reducing the likelihood of a successful counterattack on the next turn. 

Of course, Stark shouldn't attack Seagard unless it's not being defended well enough by Greyjoy.  However, if Greyjoy is defending Seagard, then Lannister should have enough power to take back Riverrun, so it's a moot point.

 



#32 Frocken

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:49 PM

 Hi All

 

First post on this forum so bear with me if I don't follow "protocol".

I got my AGoT 2e yesterday and cracked it open to see if the board was warped (it was) and when I had it open I decided to look at the Lannister/Greyjoy situation.

 

I don't understand all the fuss, there's plenty Lannister can do to prevent Greyjoy rolling them.

 

A defensive way is t o follow Kurbuttis example, consolidate power+ in Lannisport to build siege engine and move foot from Stoney Sept to Harrenhall with march +1. Use the hound if the ship is attacked and retreat into port, this ship can have any order.

Turn two and no muster, place Support+1 in Harrenhall, Attack+1 in Lannisport and raid in port. Now let Kevan Lannister attack Riverrun with a strength of 13 (reduced to 12 if Balon is used)

Turn two and muster, uppgrade foot to knight in Lannisport and upgrade foot to siege engine in Harrenhall, order as above and let the mountain attack Riverrun with strength of 17 (14 against Balon)

I doubt Greyjoy can match this.

 

Another version, if Greyjoy follow the script above (i.e. don't have march order in Greywater watch) then use all three march orders (use the parrot if need be) with the +1 in Stoney Sept.

Start with voiding the march in Golden Sound, now Lannister can adjust his play after Greyjoy instead.

Next move foot and horse from Lannisport to Stoney Sept.

If Greyjoy have a single horse or less in Riverrun after all his marches are done, let Kevan Lannister attack with strength of 8 (7 against Balon).

If Greyjoy moved all forces from Pyke to Riverrun then move one foot to Harrenghall and return the other foot and horse to Lannisport and follow the turn two example earlier. The strength will be 9(8) or 16(13). If Greyjoy isn't placing march at Riverrun use the parrot again to adjust.

So I don't consider Lannister so poor after all, and there could be a bidding in turn two and Greyjoy loose the sword, or widling attack or whatever, it's Game of Thrones after all...

 

All said, I'll probably still use Tyrell instead of Greyjoy in 4 player gamse as suggested, to get earlier pressure on Baratheon.

 

Cheers

 



#33 cadleo

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:13 AM

Frocken said:

 Hi All

 

First post on this forum so bear with me if I don't follow "protocol".

I got my AGoT 2e yesterday and cracked it open to see if the board was warped (it was) and when I had it open I decided to look at the Lannister/Greyjoy situation.

 

I don't understand all the fuss, there's plenty Lannister can do to prevent Greyjoy rolling them.

 

A defensive way is t o follow Kurbuttis example, consolidate power+ in Lannisport to build siege engine and move foot from Stoney Sept to Harrenhall with march +1. Use the hound if the ship is attacked and retreat into port, this ship can have any order.

Turn two and no muster, place Support+1 in Harrenhall, Attack+1 in Lannisport and raid in port. Now let Kevan Lannister attack Riverrun with a strength of 13 (reduced to 12 if Balon is used)

Turn two and muster, uppgrade foot to knight in Lannisport and upgrade foot to siege engine in Harrenhall, order as above and let the mountain attack Riverrun with strength of 17 (14 against Balon)

I doubt Greyjoy can match this.

 

Another version, if Greyjoy follow the script above (i.e. don't have march order in Greywater watch) then use all three march orders (use the parrot if need be) with the +1 in Stoney Sept.

Start with voiding the march in Golden Sound, now Lannister can adjust his play after Greyjoy instead.

Next move foot and horse from Lannisport to Stoney Sept.

If Greyjoy have a single horse or less in Riverrun after all his marches are done, let Kevan Lannister attack with strength of 8 (7 against Balon).

If Greyjoy moved all forces from Pyke to Riverrun then move one foot to Harrenghall and return the other foot and horse to Lannisport and follow the turn two example earlier. The strength will be 9(8) or 16(13). If Greyjoy isn't placing march at Riverrun use the parrot again to adjust.

So I don't consider Lannister so poor after all, and there could be a bidding in turn two and Greyjoy loose the sword, or widling attack or whatever, it's Game of Thrones after all...

 

All said, I'll probably still use Tyrell instead of Greyjoy in 4 player gamse as suggested, to get earlier pressure on Baratheon.

 

Cheers

 

 

Go (re)read Jhagens posts.



#34 jhagen

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:58 AM

I think the important thing here is to also realize that in order for lannister to defend itself agains an emminent defeat at the hands of greyjoy,

Lannister cannot:

1. Expand to many regions to collect power or supply or castles.

2. Consider his vast options for moves and differing strategies for the ensuing game.

3. Play the game as every other house can.

4. Most importantly, have fun.

 

It has become such an issue that i am not allowed/refuse to play Greyjoy in the high number of player games, because i make the game "not fun" for the Lannister player.

What kind of game do you think the Lannister player will have if Greyjoy decides to NOT attack right away? saving his assault for say turn 3 or 4? and Lannister is stuck holding the bag with a massive defensive army in Lannisport and nowhere to go with it. All the while everyone else is moving and expanding and playing the game.

 

+++side note+++

Also realize that "mustering" and " a game of thrones" can come up turn 2.

if that happens, Lannister is REALLY done for. cause then Greyjoy bids 5 tokens for the throne and moves before Lannister and thusly ends any other argument for taking Riverrun or holding Lannisport.



#35 Frocken

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:13 PM

jhagen said:

I think the important thing here is to also realize that in order for lannister to defend itself agains an emminent defeat at the hands of greyjoy,

Lannister cannot:

1. Expand to many regions to collect power or supply or castles.

2. Consider his vast options for moves and differing strategies for the ensuing game.

3. Play the game as every other house can.

4. Most importantly, have fun.

 

It has become such an issue that i am not allowed/refuse to play Greyjoy in the high number of player games, because i make the game "not fun" for the Lannister player.

What kind of game do you think the Lannister player will have if Greyjoy decides to NOT attack right away? saving his assault for say turn 3 or 4? and Lannister is stuck holding the bag with a massive defensive army in Lannisport and nowhere to go with it. All the while everyone else is moving and expanding and playing the game.

 

+++side note+++

Also realize that "mustering" and " a game of thrones" can come up turn 2.

if that happens, Lannister is REALLY done for. cause then Greyjoy bids 5 tokens for the throne and moves before Lannister and thusly ends any other argument for taking Riverrun or holding Lannisport.

Well, by making Greyjoy postpone the assault until turn 3 or 4 would mean that Lannister has succeeded with his first objective. He have to deal with the assault when the situation arises and depending on how the board looks and what support he can get from the other houses. Just as I have given an example on how to act with the scripted orders earlier.

Granted, there are other ways Greyjoy can take and hold Riverrun with one horse which may require other countermeasures.

As for the side note, if Greyjoy goes for the throne with 5 tokens he looses the sword and will probably loose draws against Lannister which may or may not affect his chances to take Lannisport.

Now, regarding if it's fun to play Lannister, I don't mind asymmetrical games. I enjoy knowing that every decision must be very thought through and every risk well calculated just in order to survive as long as I feel that I have a chance, which I still do. If I succeed I can feel really good about myself, and if not I'll probably be angry for a while, but it passes and I'll get to spend an evening with some good friends which is the reason I play in the first place.

 

I can understand though why more competitive players get their gaming experience ruined by not having equal conditions from the start.

 

Cheers



#36 pinchergram

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 04:17 PM

couple issues...you cannot muster a ship from seagard. Mustering from ports only.

Lannister can play a defense +2 in the golden sound.

You do not address the issue of Lannister building a seige engine. If they do this, then on turn 2, they can raid river's defese order, or the ships support order, making it a 6-2 fight, easily.  

Due to lannister's priority, and high number of special move icons, having played the game about dozen times, with usually 3-5 players, greyjoy never holds riverrun.

Also, if turn 2 stark musters a boat into the bay of ice, and are bold, they can take the moat, greywater watch, and flints finger on turn 2, leaving greyjoy extremely exposed.

the "Lannister's retribution" strategy, as I call it, has worked for me well, once basically destroying all of greyjoys land power in a turn.



#37 jhagen

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:10 AM

pinchergram said:

couple issues...you cannot muster a ship from seagard. Mustering from ports only.

Lannister can play a defense +2 in the golden sound.

You do not address the issue of Lannister building a seige engine. If they do this, then on turn 2, they can raid river's defese order, or the ships support order, making it a 6-2 fight, easily.  

Due to lannister's priority, and high number of special move icons, having played the game about dozen times, with usually 3-5 players, greyjoy never holds riverrun.

Also, if turn 2 stark musters a boat into the bay of ice, and are bold, they can take the moat, greywater watch, and flints finger on turn 2, leaving greyjoy extremely exposed.

the "Lannister's retribution" strategy, as I call it, has worked for me well, once basically destroying all of greyjoys land power in a turn.

couple issues with your post:

pinchergram said:


couple issues...you cannot muster a ship from seagard. Mustering from ports only.

You say you have played the game a dozen times? i find that a dubious statement considering page 9 mustering example states:

3. Since he already has an army of three Knights at Riverrun,
he uses one of his mustering points at Riverrun to place another
Ship in the Golden Sound (which is adjacent to Riverrun),
creating an army of two Ships. He cannot use the one remaining
mustering point at Riverrun since he has met his Supply limit.

pinchergram said:


You do not address the issue of Lannister building a seige engine. If they do this, then on turn 2, they can raid river's defese order, or the ships support order, making it a 6-2 fight, easily.

Nor do i address "clash of kings", cause if that comes up, your precious "Lannister's retribution strategy" is done for. cause then Greyjoy bids for the throne, goes first, and rubs your plans out. regardless of your cards played. or units mustered.

the script i posted was an all out assault on Lannister on the high probability of what the standard moves that lannister does. all the script dealt with was a 2 turn lannisport on a muster.

pinchergram said:


Also, if turn 2 stark musters a boat into the bay of ice, and are bold, they can take the moat, greywater watch, and flints finger on turn 2, leaving greyjoy extremely exposed.

There is no strategic reason for stark to send ships north to Greyjoy. This statement could not be more wrong.

please see cadleo's posts regarding Starks diplomacy with Lannister.



#38 bilatun

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:15 PM

It sounds interesting with your discription with Greyjoys games. I have not played it before, but it attracts me now

 

 

 

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disney channel | angry bird games | car games

 



#39 polovy

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 02:42 AM

OK. So we know exactly how the Lannisters loose against Greyjoys in 1-to-1.

 

What about the possibilities to balance the game? I have not played yet. Will be having my first game tonight.

 

Will the following help to balance the game:

1. Reducing the number of starting units for Greyjoy.

2. Increasing the number of starting units for Lannister

3. Making Riverrun a second starting location for Lannisters

4. Making Moal Cailin a second starting location for Starks

 

It also looks to me that most of you play every man for himself, rather than building alliances. How a bout a shared victory? Two players alliance wins if they hold Kings Landing, Winterfell, Riverrun and 10 other Strongholds/Castles, as well as controlling the Iron Throne token.



#40 polovy

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:57 AM

I have just played the game for the first time and I don not feel that there is a problem with the Lannisters. Yes they have hard time if Grayjoys will decide to pick on them, but that leaves the Greyjoys at a mercy of the Starks. Greyjoys have much better option of taking over the Seaguard and fortifying there.  I think most of you are just playing against Lannisters.

 

I do not feel that the Baratheons are in that a good position. If they will allow themselves to loose the control of the sea they are stuck. Starks are in good position but they have to spread themselves thinly which is risky but that's when the alliances come into play.

 

 






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