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Deathwatch's 'unlimited basic ammo' and Backpack Ammo Supplies


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#21 pearldrum1

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 05:41 PM

Ah, ok this makes much more sense. For extended missions without a weapon cache or resupply, I am thinking the backpack and perhaps have the tech marine carry a couple boxes for my dev. Just in case. And also because he would probably get a boner from it. Outstanding.



#22 herichimo

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:15 AM

Make sure your devestator reads the errata concerning the costs of special issue ammo for the ammunition backpack. (I'll give you a hint, they are supposed to cost a LOT more than the book says.) That being said, standard Heavy Bolter special issue magazines (the M1 Garand used clips, the heavy bolter uses either a belt-feeder, box-magazine (not in DH), or normal magazines) cost the same points as a normal bolter mag. Also, the Devestator's free magazine of special issue ammo is NOT a backpack, it is a standard magazine.

 

Also, be sure to let your players come up with their workarounds. As long as you understand the basics and the "thou shalt nots", enjoy sitting back and watch them smoosh their brains against the wall figuring this stuff out.



#23 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 12:19 AM

 I'm with Charmander on the issue of jams. Even for energy based weaponry, I think a jam destroying the ammunition or draining the power of the entire clip is ridiculous. They still have to take a reload action to clear the jam, but they only lose one shot.

 

For me, a "jam" on an energy weapon has been the power cell burning out/fusing, so it makes sense to me.

 

In fact it's pretty much obligatory in Only War/Back Crusade to avoid overload lasweapon abuse.



#24 pearldrum1

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 12:10 AM

Are there any rules banning how many Missile Launchers can be in a squad? Other than Requisition limits, of course.

 

For instance, if I had a PC running a devestator, then spending req to get a missile launcher but still wanting to lug around his heavy bolter, is it feasible for him to mag lock that ***** to his backpack ammo supply (this seems a bit much), or if he isn`t rocking a backpack ammo supply, but using box magazines with his heavy bolter, to mag lock the missile launcher to his back?

 

What about if he spent the req to buy it, and then had one of his brothers carry it on their back, either strapped or mag locked? What if multiple brothers had the same idea?



#25 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:29 AM

If his brothers carry it on their back, they will have no place to put their own weapons.

 

General rule is one (1) basic or heavy weapon on back/always in hands + 2 (2) one handed weapons.at sides + combat knife presumably on thigh.

 

That means you cannot carry a heavy bolter and a missle launcher at the same time, especially because heavy weapons are always carried in hands, I believe. That is one of their drawbacks.

 

EDIT: maglocking something that weighs 40kg sounds a little absurd.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 16 October 2013 - 05:30 AM.


#26 Kshatriya

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:22 AM

That general rule of "how many weapons they can carry" is a houserule, right?

 

I haven't implemented something similar, but haven't really had the issue come up yet, and have enough house rules as it is until it's needed.

 

I have issues with letting Character A pay for an item with req and then giving it to Character B to use/carry. I know it's the same thing as dumping the equivalent amount of req into the community pool for someone else to take, but fluff-wise it really bothers me, especially with the depictions of Astartes being very reverent and respectful towards their gear. To me an Astartes wouldn't just lend a weapon to a teammate, he'd say "why did you not request such a weapon if you thought you needed it?" with sharing only occurring if a teammate's weapon was lost, destroyed, or out of ammo.

 

Quick question: upthread the Rule of Three (reloads) was brought up. Do you interpret that as 3 reloads per weapon or 3 reloads, period? For example, if I am carrying a bolter, bolt pistol, and basic meltagun, should i have 3 bolter magazines, 3 bolt pistol magazines, and 3 melta magazines (flasks of gas, whatever) or would I need to pick between bolter/bolt pistol-sized bolt magazine reloads and melta flask reloads (to a max of 3, i.e. 2 flasks of melta juice, 1 magazine of boltgun bolts). Curious what you guys think about this!


Edited by Kshatriya, 16 October 2013 - 10:32 AM.


#27 pearldrum1

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:21 PM

EDIT: maglocking something that weighs 40kg sounds a little absurd

 

 

Really? In this universe of anti-gravitational weapons suspensors, Warp drive technology, Demon infestation, and void shields, this is where you draw the line? I am not trying to be a **** (well, a tiny bit) but that was really funny to me. Haha.

 

I can just see it in a game, `OK, you just ripped off the arms of the warp spawn and sodomized it to death just before the tyranid invasion tore the planet apart... you barely escaped with your life but... sorry, you had to leave the rocket launcher on the planet. You KNOW you cannot mag lock that to your back. Damn it, Derrik, we have had this discussion before!`

 

I think if a heavy in a squad is not using the backpack ammo supply, I will allow them to carry a missile launcher in its place at the cost of less spare ammo. And maybe something like a full round action to swap between bolter and back mounted launcher - I haven`t worked it out yet.

 

Quick question: upthread the Rule of Three (reloads) was brought up. Do you interpret that as 3 reloads per weapon or 3 reloads, period? For example, if I am carrying a bolter, bolt pistol, and basic meltagun, should i have 3 bolter magazines, 3 bolt pistol magazines, and 3 melta magazines (flasks of gas, whatever) or would I need to pick between bolter/bolt pistol-sized bolt magazine reloads and melta flask reloads (to a max of 3, i.e. 2 flasks of melta juice, 1 magazine of boltgun bolts). Curious what you guys think about this! 

 

 

I use a house rule on this one based on A) contemporary grunt chest rigs/ammo capacity and 2) an amazing article I read by a very dedicated fan that outlines Bolter function, magazine capacity and reload routine. In essence the author outlined the function of the Astartes backpack as having 8 spare magazines contained on it with the bolter itself containing one full magazine. His argument was that the squad-based batle brothers reload off of the backpack of the brothers in front of them, while their brothers behind them do the same. It was a really interesting concept that I am going to try and employ in my games regardless of how fluff it may be.

 

Now, regarding magazines - I am allowing one mag in the Bolter with 4 spare mags maglocked or strapped on the chest (or backpacks of other brothers). For pistols I allow one in the weapon itself and two spare on a belt or thigh. This may seem high, but it wouldn`t make sense for such an elite combat unit to drop into an incredibly hot LZ without the proper amount of ammo.

 

So, to answer your question, I would allow them the melta as their primary with 3 or so reloads, as well as their bolt pistol with 3 additional magazines.


Edited by pearldrum1, 16 October 2013 - 05:23 PM.


#28 Kshatriya

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:24 PM

Do you have a link to that article?



#29 pearldrum1

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:36 AM

Yeah, I saved it because all the time put into it blew me away. Really good stuff:

 

http://www.philipsib...00-bolter.shtml



#30 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 01:09 AM

 

Really? In this universe of anti-gravitational weapons suspensors, Warp drive technology, Demon infestation, and void shields, this is where you draw the line? I am not trying to be a **** (well, a tiny bit) but that was really funny to me. Haha.

EDIT: maglocking something that weighs 40kg sounds a little absurd

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. Because the mag lock is none of those things, which have their own in-universe specific logics. I am assuming it is a... magnetic lock, which accordingly acts as do magnetic locks, and not according to anti-gravity or daemonic principles. I suppose if someone binds a daemon into their mag-lock that will be a different thing.

 

I will also not allow my players to fly through the air by flapping their arms. "But GM, there are void shields! Why can't I fly by flapping my arms? You're just being a fascist."

 

(Nonabsurdist) fiction works by establishing a coherent, false universe in which things work logically and predictably within parameters established by the universe's creators. Hamlet cannot pull out a laser pistol or turn into a frog on whim, although he can see ghosts, because the former are outside the established parameters of Hamlet and the latter is not. Daemonic incursions make sense inside the 40K fictional universe; maglocking 40kg objects and flying by flapping your arms do not. 


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 19 October 2013 - 01:14 AM.


#31 herichimo

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 06:13 AM

Yeah, I saved it because all the time put into it blew me away. Really good stuff:

 

http://www.philipsib...00-bolter.shtml

 

This guy has a lot of interesting stuff. But as he states himself on his website, he deviates quite a bit from the actual 40k background. His diagram for a bolt round for instance is way off of 40k background. Be wary of what you take from his site.



#32 pearldrum1

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 05:39 PM

Bogi, try taking yourself less seriously, man. It is way more fun.

 

I understand that all universes, fiction or not have pre established parameters.. having said that, flying by flapping one`s arms and finding a magnet large enough to do a job when the technology in the universe has obviously surpassed that are different things.

 

Herichimo - yeah, good call. I noticed that as well.



#33 Kshatriya

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 05:55 PM

A lot from that link I am not going to use, but reloading from your Squaddie's backpack just makes logistical sense.



#34 pearldrum1

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 09:15 PM

Yeah, I REALLY liked that concept. Very cool.



#35 herichimo

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:42 AM

Yeah, I REALLY liked that concept. Very cool.

 

Unless you're out there by yourself... Too bad Kill-Marine.



#36 pearldrum1

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:06 AM

Meh, I highly doubt a Kill Marine would be like "Well, I hope I can figure out this mission with the one bolter magazine I have in my weapon! If not, oh well."

 

Chest and leg rigs work as well. But for a tactical squad that always works in close proximity, this makes sense.



#37 herichimo

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:51 AM

I was attempting humour, doesn't translate well in written word I guess.

 

Nevertheless, as a military vet I can tell you pulling magazines off of another person in combat situations is far from easy. Combat is chaotic and each battle is different than the last. There is no guarantee someone with ammo will be in front of you when your magazine runs empty, nor you'll be anywhere close to another guy when you've spread out from mortar or artillery fire, nor have access to a guys back while he's hunkering down behind cover avoiding incoming fire.

 

The only time this method would be really effective requires all persons of the team to be standing fully upright, facing the same direction, bunched very closely together, and advancing at the same speed. In other words: Gun-bait (Gunners are trained to shoot at prime target groups of 3-5+ targets bunched together; 1 guy by himself is usually a waste of ammo, let the riflemen deal with him.)


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#38 pearldrum1

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:05 AM

I hate to point out the obvious, but we aren't talking about real life here. Are we not allowed to bend the rules some?

 

I understand tactical spacing, L-shaped ambushes, and making the FNG find the grid squares more than most, but that doesn't change the fact that a couple spare mags hanging from the back of a suit of power armor for your team in an oh **** scenario seems kind of an awesome concept. 

 

Space Marines are concept cars, not sedans.

 

 

Perhaps a chest rig would be much more life-like and practical with backpack rigs being available to battle brothers as a last resort/re-supply when hunkered down in cover? I am just spitballing here.


Edited by pearldrum1, 22 October 2013 - 05:29 PM.





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