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How to fight against PCs using a lot of flame weapons?


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#21 Adeptus-B

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 09:18 AM

Radulf St. Germaine said:

 BTW, what does a real army do angainst flamers?

They shoot the guys with the flamers first. I think there is a scene at the beginning of Saving Private Ryan that shows what happens when a guy carrying a flamer gets caught in the open....



#22 1c33m4k3r

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 03:16 AM

 I would say it is within your rights as GM to have the enemy forces focus fire on Flamer wielders. After all, nobody wants to die in a horrific pyre of weapons-grade napalm. This should be especially true if the enemies somehow become aware of the PC's extensive Flamer usage - it's not like these weapons are subtle, after all.

Just don't attempt to "fight fire with fire". Once or twice could be amusing, but it otherwise detracts from the players' feeling of uniqueness and the temptation to escalate into a Flamer arms race would be too strong.



#23 Luthor Harkon

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 03:30 AM

Radulf St. Germaine said:

Hi all,

thanks for the input- I will definitely use some of the ideas. However, my main intention is not to crush the players like the vermin they are - instead I want to challenge them with interesting combats and still give them the joy of squirting firey death upon their enemies. ;-)

How about some fleet-footed Dark Eldar, with Unnatural Agility and Dodge (+10) and thus the ability to evade the flamer cone with a very high probability. Maybe even some deadly h-t-h-combat focussed Wyches. A Pyromancer with the Endure Flame or Molten Man power could show them the true power of psychic fire. Some Fenksworld Scum in insulation suits as mentioned in the IH, which more or less ignores any heat and fire based attack.


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#24 BrotherKane

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 04:22 AM

There are a variety of ways to turn the flame onto them if you want to.  The psychic power that lets you control people or I think there are halucinogen grenades that produce effects where they might flame each other.  You do want to be careful with all of these though as you said.  I would say that if the enemies have a realistic way of getting the info that the PC's love to flame they can reasonably have taken steps.  At the end of the day I don't think the PCs will like it if they always win by flaming.

You could also go the other way and start offering them different gear that is powerful but different...



#25 DrgnScorpion

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 07:16 AM

one word: Vindicare



#26 Darth Smeg

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:20 AM

Radulf St. Germaine said:

However, my main intention is not to crush the players like the vermin they are

What do you think they have Fate Points for?


Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg

You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on

 

My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#27 funkwit81

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:07 AM

Something that could be used once or maybe twice is a psyker with the Endure Flames minor psychic power, Pg. 27 Disciples of the Dark Gods. They'd walk through the flames with no problem!


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#28 Phi6891

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 05:46 PM

Oh and have the same psyker use spasm on the guy with the flamer to target his own guys if you really want to be mean.



#29 Phi6891

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 06:01 PM

Also there is that Pyromancy power called Douse Flames and while in the area of effect of the power fire ceases to function in till the power is stopped or the psyker leaves the area.


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#30 ZillaPrime

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 11:53 PM

One of my players has a Cleric/Heirophant that has a nice custom-built Combi-Flamer/Melta so she doesn't have to decide which way to burn heretics in advance....   Absolutely NASTY in close-in fights!

So the team is investigating a shot up convoy in the middle of a town square (not especially open terrain, but there are hab-blocks separated by about 50-70m of cobblestones and assorted topiaries) and some PDF troopers misdirected by a rival faction into thinking the team are heretics (someone with a badge said so!) take up positions in the surrounding buildings and open fire!

Everyone dives for what cover they can find (park benches, nearby vehicles, etc.) and those with long ranged weapons begin cautiously scanning for targets.  The Magos turns on his force field and takes flight with maglevs in the hope of flushing out the shooters (so he can then drop on them with a huge axe!).   Meanwhile the Cleric.... sat there behind cover and muttered to herself.   

The moral of the story:  Different weapons for different situations.  Flamers are absolutely useless at anything more than 20m.  The basic generic autogun or lasgun can engage out to 400m if you have line of sight.  Sniper weapons as well as most support weapons can engage at much greater ranges than this.   Mix up your encounters some.   I have found that I can get more variety in mapped battlefields if I sometimes use a 1" = 2m scale instead of 1" = 1m (and inform my players of the map scale!).   Smaller than this and movement becomes almost pointless.   If I need an even bigger fight scene then I will either map part of it or simply go into narrative combat.   Even the main hall of a modest Imperial church is a fairly large scene to stage a combat in, let alone a factory floor or a cathedral.  

Scenery can also dictate wisdom.   Do you really want to use flamers when your suspect is feverishly researching something in an Administratum archive vault?  How about when you finally corner the infamous "Big Bommah" who has been "purifying" important structures within the hive in a misguided tribute to "Tha Emprah wot talks to me in me 'ed!" (Energy criticals on a guy with lots of high-yield explosives!  YUMMY!!!)? 



#31 Superraiderman

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 02:50 PM

I would use flammable liquid in bottles, like alcohol that just lights as they use their flamers.



#32 Askil

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 01:54 AM

I know that acolytes have some measure of the Inquisition's ability to wave two fingers at the rest of the Imperium's rules but if the group's overuse of flamers in so endemic somebody important should probably have taken exception at them setting fire to everything by now.

 

Most plausably the Ecclesiachry, after all setting fire to church buildings (even accidentally) woudn't exactly endear you to them. Nor are they the most reasonable people to try to calm down when they decide to do something about it..


Edited by Askil, 26 July 2014 - 01:56 AM.





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