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Question about multiple weapons in a SHOOT action


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#21 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 09:47 AM

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

Knife + Gun in Assault (which is close-in hand to hand, so forth) would be a bayonet. It is possible and feasible to shoot someone and then bayonet them, or vice-versa.

I imagine a combat round being fairly lengthy. 5 guys against 5 guys using everything they have at their disposal to kill each other. And we are talking about Rangers and Sturmgrenadiers, not National Guard and Volksturm. It is assumed these are the special forces of each power. I think a Ranger is a pretty good killing machine in 1947, especially if he is a veteran of a war which has lasted 7 + years. Maybe I am wrong.

Each weapon is only firing once. HOWEVER I think that different weapons have different precedence, don't they? First are firearms, casualties are removed, then hand to hand. I think this is in Seelowe, cant remember.

Please do not get me wrong, I do agree that if a turn is short, like 1 or 2 minutes, then NO you could not use more than one weapon. But if it is 5 or more minutes, I see no problem with it.

OK, then riddle me this.....

If the turn is long enough for me to fire a grenade launcher, a pistol and a rifle and then use a knife, then why is it not long enough for me to fire my rife two times, or three times?



#22 Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 12:16 PM

Ok Peacekeeper B:

The rifle, and the knife/grenade do the same dice in attack. I think the average joe will have 6 dice during this bloodbath, and the heavy will have 10 dice usually.

So if your guy has 3 weapons which each have 2 dice, and they are all the same effect, could you not say "I am using my rifle 3 times?"

As far as the heavies are concerned, I assume that much of the using of it is bracing and so forth.

Just play it however you want to. I for one will take the weapons in range order descending. Rifles then knives, etc.



#23 Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 05:41 PM

I made a mistake on my calculations: I was figuring the dice against Armor 1 targets, not against 2, which is typical. Sorry!



#24 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 07:56 PM

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

Ok Peacekeeper B:

The rifle, and the knife/grenade do the same dice in attack. I think the average joe will have 6 dice during this bloodbath, and the heavy will have 10 dice usually.

So if your guy has 3 weapons which each have 2 dice, and they are all the same effect, could you not say "I am using my rifle 3 times?"

As far as the heavies are concerned, I assume that much of the using of it is bracing and so forth.

Just play it however you want to. I for one will take the weapons in range order descending. Rifles then knives, etc.

But what I am saying is that he guy with ONLY a rifle doesnt get to fire it more then once. But a guy with a rifle, a UGL and a Knife can use them all at the same time.

I am not saying "Can I fire my rifle twice instead of firing my rifle and my UGL?" I am saying that the statement that it is 3-4 minutes (or so of time) therefore people can switch weapons and fire several of them in a round does not work, when that one guy with only one weapon can still only fire once.

Its like sayog, I have two cars so I can drive twice as far as you in one minute cause you only have one car.

Ive been looking over the rules and looking for a passage that says a unit can fire all of its weapons at one time. I also cannot find a statement where it says it cant. I would appreciate if someone pointed me in the right direction. I did find a statement that all weapons of the same kind must be fired at the same target.



#25 Dcal12

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 01:52 AM

Peacekeeper_b said:

Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex said:

 

Ok Peacekeeper B:

The rifle, and the knife/grenade do the same dice in attack. I think the average joe will have 6 dice during this bloodbath, and the heavy will have 10 dice usually.

So if your guy has 3 weapons which each have 2 dice, and they are all the same effect, could you not say "I am using my rifle 3 times?"

As far as the heavies are concerned, I assume that much of the using of it is bracing and so forth.

Just play it however you want to. I for one will take the weapons in range order descending. Rifles then knives, etc.

 

 

But what I am saying is that he guy with ONLY a rifle doesnt get to fire it more then once. But a guy with a rifle, a UGL and a Knife can use them all at the same time.

I am not saying "Can I fire my rifle twice instead of firing my rifle and my UGL?" I am saying that the statement that it is 3-4 minutes (or so of time) therefore people can switch weapons and fire several of them in a round does not work, when that one guy with only one weapon can still only fire once.

Its like sayog, I have two cars so I can drive twice as far as you in one minute cause you only have one car.

Ive been looking over the rules and looking for a passage that says a unit can fire all of its weapons at one time. I also cannot find a statement where it says it cant. I would appreciate if someone pointed me in the right direction. I did find a statement that all weapons of the same kind must be fired at the same target.

 

Page 7 of the rule book. 

Move then shoot

  The activated unit may move up to its X value then use all of its weapons to attack.



#26 Dcal12

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 01:54 AM

Page 10

Shooting rules

During its activation a unit may use all of its weapons.



#27 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 02:27 AM

Dcal12 said:

Page 10

Shooting rules

During its activation a unit may use all of its weapons.

Thanks, I will look them up when I get home.



#28 Algesan

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 11:20 PM

Interesting idea to test for a house rule though.  I like the logic behind it and it fits with the new "C" range weapons.

1) Each infantry model can only use one weapon per SHOOT action.

2) "C" range weapons may be used in an assault on adjacent units in addition to regular ranged shooting.

The problem is that the points cost of some units might have to change.  After all, is the BBQ Squad worth 30 points if it can no longer move up 2, toss all its demo charges, shotgun/flamer stuff and then bayonet it?



#29 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 11:35 PM

Algesan said:

Interesting idea to test for a house rule though.  I like the logic behind it and it fits with the new "C" range weapons.

1) Each infantry model can only use one weapon per SHOOT action.

2) "C" range weapons may be used in an assault on adjacent units in addition to regular ranged shooting.

The problem is that the points cost of some units might have to change.  After all, is the BBQ Squad worth 30 points if it can no longer move up 2, toss all its demo charges, shotgun/flamer stuff and then bayonet it?

Its worth it because it has demo charges to begin with. That allows it to take out Tank stuff. If you are moving into combat with a Luther your demo charges are 1/2 and your shotguns are - and knife & grenade attack is - and the flamer is 1/4. So a full strength squad couldl thrown 4 demo charges and use the flamer.

Against an infantry squad teh demo charges do - damage, the flamer does 1/+ teh shotguns do 6/1 (A1), 3/1 (A2) or 2/1 (A3) with anything better then A3 being a -. The knife and grenade attack is either 2/1 or 1/1. The only thing that would even be worth shootin shotguns, thjrowing democharges, using flamer and sticking with knives wold be against T1 (which I have not seen anything in the rules for).

I would be willing to accept that weapons with limited number of usescould be fired whenever the unit wants, btu once they are gone, then they are gone.

I would even accept "heroes" being allows to fire everything they got, cause, well, they are heroes.



#30 Algesan

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 03:05 PM

Currently for the points you get you can toss all the Demo charges at one walker, shotgun a squad, flame another target and Knife another squad.  Lots of options for a high cost unit, but if it goes down to fire one weapon plus use C weapons, the damage potential drops.

Heroes, I agree, they get to shoot all they have because they are heroes.

Going slightly OT, it might be interesting to give walkers a C weapon option plus all infantry units get a way to damage armor in C range.  I'd reverse the usual order though, the walker always gets the first shot and the survivors that are left can try to put it out of commission then.



#31 ddaley

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 07:33 PM

My son and I played our first scenario tonight.  This rule still isn't clear to me.  The manual says (on page 7 in the revised set):

 

Attack:

The activated unit may attack using all of its weapon lines.

 

But, to me, that is not the same things as "a member of the unit may attack using all of the weapons they carry"  We may use a house rule that says that each unit member can only attack once. They will need to declare which weapon they are using prior to attacking.

 

However, as Algesan points out, this may affect the value of units with members that have multiple weapons.

 

Has there been any more clarification or guidance on this issue?






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