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Inspired by Mark of the Xenos: Tau Battlesuit brainstorming


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#41 Calgor Grim

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 11:56 AM

Ok. All those are messing with your sense of sight by giving bonuses to concealment. The skill though is worded as evading detection by sight. To counter this, try smell or hearing. Chuck Kroot hounds in, heightened senses of smell would set them off barking to put the place in lock down. That or you rely on the disruption he causes moving around. While you cannot perceive him directly, the power doesn't say he avoids any impact on the world, he isn't incorporeal. So gravel or sand, even some crisps or something around a base, watch for footprints or crunching gravel appearing without a clear identifier of source and fire at will.

 

Rules to hand now, surely things like Weapon Jinx can only target things if he knows they are there surely? He needs to know the machine is there to disrupt. Having a read through, white noise is being the utter swine since it messes with psychic or technological detection. The original rules for Dark heresy powers seem to be written in a system where the only enemies in the area were humans, heretics and low level aliens without much in the way of a gun. Probably not till later did it include Xenos, and I don't believe that Imperium psychic powers can make a total mockery of all alien technology irrespective of origin. For example try using White Noise psychic disruption to stop an Eldar Warlock seeing you with it and he'll likely just look at you and laugh before blowing your head off. Tau technology is effectively better than empire counterparts in many ways. Xenos technology should surely have some better resistance to something like this, it's perhaps a little more reliable or at least technologically sound compared to Imp stuff. To this end I would still argue that things like drone senses or laser detection should still apply or to a lesser degree. This is not about static jamming the signal which sonar or radar probably could, this is a physical break in a laser beam which is interpret as something crossing it and  should not be affected.

 

For wall walk, have you considered spikes? :-) Serious note though, energy barriers or fields might harm him for trying or stop him gripping it. That or make the building design really annoying, it says he has to stop to go from wall to ceiling and vice versa.


Edited by Calgor Grim, 04 February 2014 - 12:53 PM.

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#42 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 01:34 AM

Wait. Are you using Dark Heresy powers using the Deathwatch psychic power system?

 

That's your problem. They're not compatible.



#43 Routa-maa

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 01:44 AM

No I think he's using DH Psychic system fully when he mentioned his player doesn't roll 9 on the dice.

 

But if he's using DH power with DW Psychic Power system then you are correct.


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#44 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:32 AM

No I think he's using DH Psychic system fully when he mentioned his player doesn't roll 9 on the dice.

 

But if he's using DH power with DW Psychic Power system then you are correct.

 

They're still not compatible (whether ior not he's using the Ascension psychic power rules).

 

DH minor psychic powers are hugely unbalancing in DW due to the large number you can get and the high level of effect for low risk. That's why it... doesn't have Weapon Jinx, it has Curse of the Machine Spirit, that does the same thing but much, much less effectively.

 

My advice: do NOT use Dark Heresy psychic powers in Deathwatch.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 05 February 2014 - 02:33 AM.


#45 Surak

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 03:04 AM

Calgor,

 

Thanks for those ideas, I've already started putting Kroot Hounds around where I can to make his and the team assassin's life interesting. I agree that Eldar psykers in particular should laugh at Santioned Psykers attempts at manipulating the warp, the problem is the Eldar powers that are avaliable in the 40K rp's seem a little under-powered compared to their Imperial counterpart - this is of course mitigated by the fact you have a Farseer or Warlock casting them without breaking a sweat, but it still doesn't feel right.

 

------------

 

Bogi and Routa,

 

I'm running a DH1 campaign that just happens to borrow the setting from DW - hence posting here - as my players needed a change of pace over Calixis - All the rules that we are using are DH1 with the exception of combat (and so the combat related talents) which I have lifted from OW. I've also shifted to OW style Unnatural bonuses to curb the worst of the overpowering they can cause at ascension level (which the group is rapidly closing in on). Also as my group has just about reached ascension they are already at more or less the same power level as starting marines anyway, so DW NPC stats are more useful to me at the moment than DH1 ones.

 

I suppose I should make clear I don't want to make the psyker completely useless to the group, I just want to make things more challenging as at the moment the groups default solution to all problems Tau is "send in the psyker, they won't find him"

 

-----------------

 

Now to come up with some rules for Kroot/Eldar, Kroot/Orks, other "kroot that have eaten something fun", and Nicassar

 

Ideas on a postcard (or forum post :P )

 

Regards

 

Surak


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My DH beta 2 aptitude calc is here https://drive.google...dit?usp=sharing

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#46 LordBlades

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 03:29 AM

 

No I think he's using DH Psychic system fully when he mentioned his player doesn't roll 9 on the dice.

 

But if he's using DH power with DW Psychic Power system then you are correct.

 

They're still not compatible (whether ior not he's using the Ascension psychic power rules).

 

DH minor psychic powers are hugely unbalancing in DW due to the large number you can get and the high level of effect for low risk. That's why it... doesn't have Weapon Jinx, it has Curse of the Machine Spirit, that does the same thing but much, much less effectively.

 

My advice: do NOT use Dark Heresy psychic powers in Deathwatch.

 

 

Actually, from my experience I'd go with 'do NOT use Dark Heresy psychic powers period'. Dark Heresy Psykers (doubly so in Ascension) are completely out of balance with everything FFG has published since in the setting.



#47 Surak

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 03:57 AM

 

 

No I think he's using DH Psychic system fully when he mentioned his player doesn't roll 9 on the dice.

 

But if he's using DH power with DW Psychic Power system then you are correct.

 

They're still not compatible (whether ior not he's using the Ascension psychic power rules).

 

DH minor psychic powers are hugely unbalancing in DW due to the large number you can get and the high level of effect for low risk. That's why it... doesn't have Weapon Jinx, it has Curse of the Machine Spirit, that does the same thing but much, much less effectively.

 

My advice: do NOT use Dark Heresy psychic powers in Deathwatch.

 

 

Actually, from my experience I'd go with 'do NOT use Dark Heresy psychic powers period'. Dark Heresy Psykers (doubly so in Ascension) are completely out of balance with everything FFG has published since in the setting.

 

I think I'm starting to find that out. Unfortunately as they player has been using the character for nearly a year it's a bit too late to change anything that fundimental.

 

Regards

 

Surak


Knowledge is power, and power corrupts.Therefore library's are the source of all evil.

My DH beta 2 aptitude calc is here https://drive.google...dit?usp=sharing

Part of the TeamACES youtube channel http://www.youtube.c...Ha0q8lrmTRGATFA


#48 Calgor Grim

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 07:52 AM

Irrelevant of how these are imbalanced as a hive tyrant, carnifex and guardsman on the opposite ends of a seesaw, the damage is done. All we can do now is mitigate or counter.

Since the powers are broken, you have freedom to break their defence capabilities in response. Its how I GM with obscure or homebrew. Anything you can use, the NPC can benefit from where appropriate.

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#49 Surak

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 09:00 AM

Irrelevant of how these are imbalanced as a hive tyrant, carnifex and guardsman on the opposite ends of a seesaw, the damage is done. All we can do now is mitigate or counter.

Since the powers are broken, you have freedom to break their defence capabilities in response. Its how I GM with obscure or homebrew. Anything you can use, the NPC can benefit from where appropriate.

Calgor,

 

I agree that turn-about is fair play, and I do use any and all rules loopholes that my players find against them. With that in mind I'm going to start looking at the base Kroot stats and see if I can't come up with some sort of rules to account for whatever they've been eating, any suggestions on where to start with the Nicassar would be welcome.

 

Regards

 

Surak


Knowledge is power, and power corrupts.Therefore library's are the source of all evil.

My DH beta 2 aptitude calc is here https://drive.google...dit?usp=sharing

Part of the TeamACES youtube channel http://www.youtube.c...Ha0q8lrmTRGATFA


#50 Routa-maa

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 09:42 AM

Kroots and Kroot hounds with Psyniscience skill :)

 

"Feel the Warp flowing through you!" :D


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#51 Surak

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:22 AM

Kroots and Kroot hounds with Psyniscience skill :)

 

"Feel the Warp flowing through you!" :D

That will do as a starter for 10 - do you tihnk unnatural perception should effect it?


Knowledge is power, and power corrupts.Therefore library's are the source of all evil.

My DH beta 2 aptitude calc is here https://drive.google...dit?usp=sharing

Part of the TeamACES youtube channel http://www.youtube.c...Ha0q8lrmTRGATFA


#52 Routa-maa

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:54 AM

As it is Perception based test then Yes.

Edited by Routa-maa, 05 February 2014 - 11:54 AM.

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#53 Calgor Grim

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:19 PM

Be cautious about the Nicassar though, they tend to only do well in low gravity environments and are a little docile. Might be better to scrap that. Also Kroot Psykers I think are pretty rare so you may want to be sparing with them, especially any decently potent ones. There is something though that none of us have thought of:

Vespid Stingwings

 

Vespids see in three different modes according to "Mark of the Xenos P26", they do the normal human visual spectrum of light, infrared and also ultraviolet. It says that they use these three in combination and have a perception of their surroundings unique to their race. It's never fully explained what the combination of these three may do and whether they may or may not allow them to perceive a psyker trying to hide from sight. I'll leave that open to interpretation, guess work and a magic 8 ball. They also have lowish intelligence (25) and couldn't even perceive Tau as a sentient lifeform without the helmets. Perhaps this level of misunderstanding. They also do some degree of low level ultrasonic tone from their wings which affects their technology and makes it work. At your discretion since it doesn't argue otherwise, you may opt to use this somehow.


Edited by Calgor Grim, 05 February 2014 - 12:20 PM.

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#54 Surak

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 02:51 AM

Be cautious about the Nicassar though, they tend to only do well in low gravity environments and are a little docile. Might be better to scrap that. Also Kroot Psykers I think are pretty rare so you may want to be sparing with them, especially any decently potent ones. There is something though that none of us have thought of:

Vespid Stingwings

 

Vespids see in three different modes according to "Mark of the Xenos P26", they do the normal human visual spectrum of light, infrared and also ultraviolet. It says that they use these three in combination and have a perception of their surroundings unique to their race. It's never fully explained what the combination of these three may do and whether they may or may not allow them to perceive a psyker trying to hide from sight. I'll leave that open to interpretation, guess work and a magic 8 ball. They also have lowish intelligence (25) and couldn't even perceive Tau as a sentient lifeform without the helmets. Perhaps this level of misunderstanding. They also do some degree of low level ultrasonic tone from their wings which affects their technology and makes it work. At your discretion since it doesn't argue otherwise, you may opt to use this somehow.

Calgor,

 

If you don't mind me asking what is your source for the Nicassar info you've got, the only reference I've ever found for them is in Battlefleet Gothic: Armada - and that mainly focuses on there ships and a little note on there nomadic culture.

 

I'd also completely forgotten the Vespid, might have to have some fun with them

 

As for Kroot Psykers I was going to limit proper Psi users to high level Shapers, and have the rest of them at various levels of Psyinscience and Resistance (Psychic) - I'm also thinkning of having the Ork latent Psi ability sort of carry through to Kroot as well - focused through a Shaper who's eaten a weirdboy or two - as a one-off end of mission boss type character/unit

 

Keep the ideas coming people

 

Regards

 

Surak


Knowledge is power, and power corrupts.Therefore library's are the source of all evil.

My DH beta 2 aptitude calc is here https://drive.google...dit?usp=sharing

Part of the TeamACES youtube channel http://www.youtube.c...Ha0q8lrmTRGATFA


#55 Routa-maa

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:09 AM

Maybe the Kroots have been hunting and eating Crotalids so that's why they have little by little developed Psyniscience to detect where/when Crotalids are migrating.

This brought also Idead of Kroot Hounds using Crotalids Warp jumping ability but only for short distances.

 

"You Idiot, there's nothing heraaaaargh" 

Last words heard before Kroot Hounds devoured every soldier inside fortified bunker  :ph34r:

 

Hmmm, Idea of Kroots generating Ork like gestalt psyhic powers. I like that  :)

 

PS. Crotalids can be found in Mark of the Xenos p.62


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#56 Surak

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:10 AM

Routa,

 

Ah Crotalids, another brilliant Xenos Minor that I'd forgotten about.  I love the idea of teleporting Kroot hounds.

 

I think I'm going to go through all of the Monster Books and pull out a few to add variety to the Kroot - if anyone has anything (from DH1/RT/DW/OW) that they want me to look at then post it here and I'll see what I can do.

 

Regards

 

Surak

 

(PS - I would include BC Xenos but I don't have any of the BC books so I can't really)


Knowledge is power, and power corrupts.Therefore library's are the source of all evil.

My DH beta 2 aptitude calc is here https://drive.google...dit?usp=sharing

Part of the TeamACES youtube channel http://www.youtube.c...Ha0q8lrmTRGATFA


#57 Routa-maa

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:33 AM

Happy to oblige  :D


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#58 Calgor Grim

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 06:57 AM

General source for Nicassar information is what has been gathered from the Lexicanium, other 40k wikis and various Tau online forums discussing them although there is a comment that someone spoke to one of the designers Jervis Johnson about them which seemed to suggest they do look a little bear like. All I found suggest docile tendancies but that's cause there's not a lot else out there!

 

So far then you have:

  • Kroot with psychic traces from what they eat
  • Vespids
  • Slight amendments/shielding to Tau technology
  • Human allies/conscripts
  • Drones

 

At least a good list to give him a run for his money :)


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#59 Routa-maa

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:08 AM

someone spoke to one of the designers Jervis Johnson about them which seemed to suggest they do look a little bear like.

Why, oh why did this pop into my mind  :blink:  

 

bb009-d.gif

 

I think I need vacation or thorough brain scan  :lol:


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#60 Calgor Grim

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:39 AM

Well I know a very good Ork doctor happy to oblige...

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