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An almost exact dilution fix


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#1 avec

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 12:11 PM

This is a dilution fix that involves controlling the number of each type of mythos card that goes into the mythos deck before the game starts. There are four types of mythos cards that are prone to dilution:


• Cards that refer to the Dunwich board (25 total) 
• Cards that refer to the Innsmouth board (35 total)
• Next Act Begins cards (6 total)
• Cards that refer to Exhibit items (9 total)

Keep those four decks separate from the other mythos cards. Then, before the game begins, follow these steps:

1. Choose which of expansions you want to play with (you can choose any or all of them)
2. Based on the expansions you chose, draw some mythos cards at random from each mythos deck, without looking at them
3. Shuffle those cards together to create the Mythos deck that you will use for the game.

You’ll need to spend an extra five minutes during setup to create the mythos deck. But once the game begins, there is no interruptions to the flow of the game. You just turn over a mythos card. Some mythos cards won’t be in the game, but that’s not a problem since you don’t know which cards are in the game and which aren’t. If you draw The Story Continues, just shuffle the discards back into the deck that you made. This method is actually more true to the spirit of The Story Continues, since you have a better chance of re-drawing mythos cards than if you used one huge mythos deck.

The hard part of this method is knowing how many cards of each deck to include. I crunched the numbers for each possible combination of “dilutable” cards.  I'll post the numbers below in a minute.  

One of the great things about this method is that you are able to stay very close to the “correct” percentage of mythos cards. For example, if you’re playing with just KIY, 6.38% of the mythos cards should be Next Act Begins (6 cards out of 94). With this method, you can stay true to the original percentages while playing with multiple expansions.

If you play just with Dunwich, then 24.27% of the mythos cards should open gates in Dunwich (25 cards out of 103). If you play just with Innsmouth, 33.98% of the card should refer to the Innsmouth board (35 cards out of 103). With just KIY, like I said the percentage is 6.38% (6 of 94).

With just CotDP, the percentage is 10.59% (9 cards out of 85). Also, each of the cards in Curse that refers to Exhibit Items also opens a gate in Arkham. The cards are: Corpses Preserved, Cursed Relics, Escape from Arkham Asylum!, Museum Artifacts Stolen, Museum Haunted, River Breaches the Levees, A Sandstorm!?, and Strange Ornithological Sightings.

Depending on the expansion that you use, the percentage of “other” mythos cards ranges from 66.02% to 100%. When playing with multiple expansions, the trick is to reduce each of these percentages proportionally. As you include more towns, each town will see less activity. That can’t be avoided. However, it’s possible for each town to get the right number of mythos cards relative to the other towns.

I have chosen to never reduce KIY’s percentage. 6.38% is low enough. Also, the chance of drawing an “Exhibit Item” mythos card never has to be reduced because those cards count towards the cards that open gates in Arkham.



#2 avec

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 12:12 PM

 The following are the different combinations of dilutable mythos cards and how to un-dilute them. It doesn’t take into account cards from Kingsport, Black Goat, or Lurker, since cards from those expansions do not dilute. They all go into the stack of “other” mythos cards.

Note: All decks should include The Story Continues. Almost all decks should include Old Debts Come Due


Dunwich only
Use:
• All 25 Dunwich cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 76 “other” cards
103 cards total

24.27% are Dunwich cards and 75.73% are “other” cards, which is what they should be.

Innsmouth only
Use:
• All 35 Innsmouth cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 66 “other” cards
103 cards total

33.98% are Innsmouth cards and 66.02% are “other” cards, which is what they should be.

KIY only
Use:
• All 6 NAB cards
• The Story Continues
• 87 “other” cards
94 cards total

6.38% are NAB cards and 93.62% are “other” cards, which is what they should be.

CotDP only
Use:
• All 9 “Exhibit Item” mythos cards
• The Story Continues
• 75 “other” cards
85 cards total

10.59% involve Exhibit Items, which is what it should be.
Also, 100% of deck counts as “other” cards.

Dunwich and Innsmouth
Use:
• All 25 Dunwich cards
• All 35 Innsmouth cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 71 “other” cards
133 cards total

18.80% are Dunwich cards, which is 77.44% of what it should be.
26.32% are Innsmouth cards, which is 77.44% of what it should be.
54.89% are “other” cards, which is 77.44% of what it should be.

Dunwich and KIY
Use:
• 21 Dunwich cards
• All 6 NAB cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 65 “other” cards
94 cards total

22.34% are Dunwich cards, which is 92.04% of what it should be.
71.28% are “other” cards, which is 94.12% of what it should be.
6.38% are NAB cards, which is 100% of what it should be.

Dunwich and CotDP
Use:
• 21 Dunwich cards
• All 9 “Exhibit Item” mythos cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 53 “other” cards
85 cards total

24.71% are Dunwich cards, which is 101.79% of what it should be.
75.29% are “other” cards, which is 99.43% of what is should be.
10.59% are “Exhibit Item” cards, which is 100% of what it should be.

Innsmouth and KIY
Use:
• 30 Innsmouth cards
• All 6 NAB cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 56 “other” cards
94 cards total

31.91% are Innsmouth cards, which is 93.91% of what it should be.
61.70% are “other” cards, which is 93.46% of what it should be.
6.38% are NAB cards, which is 100% of what it should be.

Innsmouth and CotDP
Use:
• 29 Innsmouth cards
• All 9 “Exhibit Item” mythos cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 45 “other” cards
85 cards total

34.12% are Innsmouth cards, which is 100.40% of what it should be.
65.88% are “other” cards, which is 99.79% of what it should be.
10.59% are “Exhibit Item” cards, which is 100% of what it should be.

KIY and CotDP
Use:
• All 6 NAB cards
• All 9 “Exhibit Item” mythos cards
• The Story Continues
• 73 “other” cards
89 cards total

6.74% are NAB cards, which is 105.62% of what it should be.
10.11% are “Exhibit Item” cards, which is 95.51% of what it should be.
93.26% are “other” cards, which is 96.33% of what it should be.

Dunwich, Innsmouth, and KIY
Use:
• 17 Dunwich cards
• 23 Innsmouth cards
• All 6 NAB cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 46 “other” cards
94 cards total

18.09% are Dunwich cards, which is 74.51% of what it should be.
24.47% are Innsmouth cards, which is 72.01% of what it should be.
51.06% are “other” cards, which is 72.05% of what it should be.
6.38% are NAB cards, which is 100% of what it should be.

Dunwich, Innsmouth, and CotDP
Use:
• 16 Dunwich cards
• 22 Innsmouth cards
• All 9 “Exhibit Item” cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 36 “other” cards
85 cards total

18.82% are Dunwich cards, which is 77.55% of what it should be.
25.88% are Innsmouth cards, which is 76.17% of what it should be.
55.29% are “other” cards, which is 78.02% of what it should be.

10.59% are “Exhibit Item” cards, which is 100% of what it should be.

Dunwich, KIY, and CotDP
Use:
• 20 Dunwich cards
• All 6 NAB cards
• All 9 “Exhibit Item” cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 52 “other” cards
89 cards total

22.47% are Dunwich cards, which is 92.58% of what it should be.
70.79% are “other” cards, which is 93.47% of what it should be.
6.74% are NAB cards, which is 105.62% of what it should be.
10.11% are “Exhibit Item” mythos cards, which is 95.51% of what it should be.

Innsmouth, KIY and CotDP
Use:
• 28 Innsmouth Cards
• All 6 NAB cards
• All 9 “Exhibit Item” cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 44 “other” cards
89 cards total

31.46% are Innsmouth cards, which is 92.58% of what it should be.
61.80% are “other” cards, which is 93.61% of what it should be.
6.74% are NAB cards, which is 105.62% of what it should be.
10.11% are “Exhibit Item” mythos cards, which is 95.51% of what it should be.

Dunwich, Innsmouth, KIY, and CotDP
Use:
• 15 Dunwich cards
• 22 Innsmouth cards
• All 6 NAB cards
• All 9 “Exhibit Item” cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 35 “other” cards
89 cards total

16.85% are Dunwich cards, which is 69.44% of what it should be.
24.72% are Innsmouth cards, which is 72.74% of what it should be.
51.69% are “other” cards, which is 72.93% of what it should be.
6.74% are NAB cards, which is 105.62% of what it should be.
10.11% are “Exhibit Item” mythos cards, which is 95.51% of what it should be.



#3 Cimmerz

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 05:25 PM

I love this! My group rarely plays with more than 1 big box and 1 small box expansion at a time (or at least as far as the Mythos cards are concerned), but even so, I love how simple and effective this makes everything.



#4 Tibs

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 07:24 PM

This looks perfect for players who routinely sort out expansions (when picking which to use, for example) but it's not for me, since I use all expansions and dislike sorting cards and making multiple decks. But I definitely appreciate the effort to combat the wicked "D"-mon.



#5 LordZon

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 02:08 AM

Wow, nice work.  I have a few questions though.

On this one;

Dunwich, Innsmouth, KIY, and CotDP
Use:
• 15 Dunwich cards
• 22 Innsmouth cards
• All 6 NAB cards
• All 9 “Exhibit Item” cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 35 “other” cards
89 cards total

16.85% are Dunwich cards, which is 69.44% of what it should be.
24.72% are Innsmouth cards, which is 72.74% of what it should be.
51.69% are “other” cards, which is 72.93% of what it should be.
6.74% are NAB cards, which is 105.62% of what it should be.
10.11% are “Exhibit Item” mythos cards, which is 95.51% of what it should be.
 

it seems that you would have very few portals opening in Arkham proper only 44 cards.  Does this change the balance too far to the side boards? 

Have you played with any of these permutations?  Is this all still a hypothisis?

 



#6 JerusalemJones

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 02:16 AM

So much number crunching. Me, I started splitting the Mythos deck in two parts and drawing two cards. If either has an expansion sysmbol that we are using, I resolve that card. If neither or both have the symbol, I resolve the first card drawn. It may not be perfect, but it is quick and easy.



#7 Avi_dreader

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 03:31 AM

You should post this in the reference section and update it after Miskatonic Horror is released.



#8 avec

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 05:40 AM

LordZon said:

Wow, nice work.  I have a few questions though.

On this one;

Dunwich, Innsmouth, KIY, and CotDP
Use:
• 15 Dunwich cards
• 22 Innsmouth cards
• All 6 NAB cards
• All 9 “Exhibit Item” cards
• The Story Continues and Old Debts Come Due
• 35 “other” cards
89 cards total

16.85% are Dunwich cards, which is 69.44% of what it should be.
24.72% are Innsmouth cards, which is 72.74% of what it should be.
51.69% are “other” cards, which is 72.93% of what it should be.
6.74% are NAB cards, which is 105.62% of what it should be.
10.11% are “Exhibit Item” mythos cards, which is 95.51% of what it should be.
 

it seems that you would have very few portals opening in Arkham proper only 44 cards.  Does this change the balance too far to the side boards? 

Have you played with any of these permutations?  Is this all still a hypothisis?

The percentage of cards that open gates in Arkham, Dunwich, and Innsmouth are all proportional to each other.  You are supposed to be about twice as likely to get an Arkham card as you are to get an Innsmouth card. You are supposed to be about three times as likely to get an Arkham card as you are to get a Dunwich card. With the mythos deck above, both of those ratios are preserved.

Here's how the numbers break down.  When playing with just Dunwich, 24.27% of the cards are supposed to open gates in Dunwich and 75.23% of the cards should be "other" cards.  When playing with Innsmouth only, 33.98% of the cards should either open gates in Innsmouth or affect the Innsmouth board (like the rumor that advances the DOR track), while 66.02% of the cards should be "other" cards.  When playing with both Dunwich and Innsmouth, I figure that the percentage of "other" cards should be the average of 75.23% and 66.02%, which is 70.87%.  

Therefore, the percentages in the Mythos deck should be 24.27% Dunwich cards, 33.98% Innsmouth cards, 6.38% NAB cards, and 70.87% other cards.  Trouble is, that adds up to more than 100%.  So, if the percentages for Dunwich, Innsmouth and "other" are all shrunk to about 70% of their original size, the result is 16.85% Dunwich, 24.72% Innsmouth, 6.74% NAB, and 51.69% "other," which adds up to 100%. 

Therefore, "other" cards should be slightly more than half the deck.  The 9 Exhibit Item cards, The Story Continues, Old Debts Come Due, and 35 other cards adds up to a total 46 cards.  With an 89 card deck, that's slightly more than half the deck. 

I haven't play tested every combination.  It's usually only me and my wife playing, and our table isn't too big, so we usually only play with the Innsmouth board.  We've tested it with Innsmouth, Next Act Begins, and/or Exhibit Item cards, and it's always worked great. 

Keep in mind that if you play with both the Dunwich and Innsmouth boards, each of the three boards will only be about 70%-77% as active as they would be if you were only playing with one expansion board.  This is because the number of unstable locations has increased, but still only one Mythos card is drawn each turn.



#9 avec

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Posted 07 March 2011 - 05:50 AM

Avi_dreader said:

You should post this in the reference section and update it after Miskatonic Horror is released.

Good idea.  I'll do that.



#10 Tox

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Posted 08 March 2011 - 09:18 PM

I'm just dropping in to say thank you, Avec :) This is very useful data and I will certainly implement it once I'll be able to play again, I'm going to favorite this page until I can actually print it. The cards are so many that it's begining to be impossible to manage them all.



#11 Aajav-Khan

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Posted 08 March 2011 - 11:16 PM

   Thank you! This is exactly what the doctor ordered .



#12 Dam

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 01:44 AM

Aajav-Khan said:

   Thank you! This is exactly what the doctor ordered .

Too bad Vincent Lee is a total hack ! Doctor Nick > Vinny Lee .


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#13 avec

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 07:40 AM

Cheers, everyone!                           



#14 Wolfpack48

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:32 AM

Hey there Avec -- thanks for doing this -- been playing using these dilution rules and having lots o fun!   :)

 

One question -- what is the reasoning behind adding Old Debts Come Due to all the decks?  I notice that's from Dunwich -- does it apply across all the expansions?


Edited by Wolfpack48, 27 July 2014 - 09:18 AM.


#15 The Professor

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:11 AM

Wolfpack48,

 

     We've not seen nor heard from Avec in awhile...but maybe your post shall summon him forth...

 

Cheers,

Joe


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http://crafthulhu.squarespace.com

 

 


#16 TragicTheBlathering

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:35 AM

while this is a good idea, the setup is painful enough with AH with out doing all that. My dilution fix is to just split the decks in to expansion piles and roll a die to determine which gets drawn. This way even running everything at once you still get a strong sense of theme.



#17 Julia

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 04:23 PM

Hey there Avec -- thanks for doing this -- been playing using these dilution rules and having lots o fun!   :)

 

One question -- what is the reasoning behind adding Old Debts Come Due to all the decks?  I notice that's from Dunwich -- does it apply across all the expansions?

 

That card is the answer to an event triggered by an Arkham Encounter card at Wizard Hill: basically you meet the Dark Man offering you 5 clues if you accept to have a Debt with him. And now the Mythos asks for the price to be payed.

 

If that card had not been added to all the decks, then the Dunwich encounter would have had only a negligible chance to be actually dangerous. Adding it to all decks makes accepting the deal much scarier.


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#18 Wolfpack48

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:23 PM

 

Hey there Avec -- thanks for doing this -- been playing using these dilution rules and having lots o fun!   :)

 

One question -- what is the reasoning behind adding Old Debts Come Due to all the decks?  I notice that's from Dunwich -- does it apply across all the expansions?

 

That card is the answer to an event triggered by an Arkham Encounter card at Wizard Hill: basically you meet the Dark Man offering you 5 clues if you accept to have a Debt with him. And now the Mythos asks for the price to be payed.

 

If that card had not been added to all the decks, then the Dunwich encounter would have had only a negligible chance to be actually dangerous. Adding it to all decks makes accepting the deal much scarier.

 

 

Ah that makes sense -- I'll have to find that encounter card and look it over.  Thanks Julia.



#19 Julia

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:08 AM

You're welcome :)


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