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How do you rate the characters, post-Exodus?


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#81 Vonpenguin

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 06:40 PM

I have to say I’m a little stumped when it comes to putting characters into tiers or rankings though I find the discussion fascinating. I mean there are just so many variables. Characters essentially have 7 points to look at, OPT, OPG, Weakness, card draw, and their place in every line of succession. None of these are independent of each other (Roslin, Boomer, and Cally being the prime examples of the interactions and balancing acts involved). And even once that’s sorted out none of the characters are chosen in a vacuum and must be considered both in regards to each other and the game options used. The Tighs can synergize particularly well if they trust each other and have both their Once per games, Roslin if chosen directly after Boomer can clear or condemn her basically for free, even more so if Baltar is somewhere at the table as well, Blue draws are theoretically better the more of them you have, the list goes on. Even Cain and Tory, generally considered two of the strongest characters can have games where they’re the worst pick possible. (For example, Cain is picked last in a six player game involving Roslin, Bill Adama, Dee, Zarek, and Anders. There’s already plenty of Leadership and Tactics at the table so her draw is largely redundant, while it may be redundant in strong skill check colors a pilot would be far better in most cases.)



#82 Holy Outlaw

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 08:15 AM

Vonpenguin,

You're right there's a lot to consider. Some players I speak with (and some posters in this thread) suggest it's too overwhelming and requires oversimplifying, overlooking, or distorting the various abilities different characters have to offer. I respect the point that each characters has something unique to offer, and I myself play with a very diverse mix, but I do believe it's possible to group characters into fairly accurate tiers. It seems to me that the rubric we should apply to come up with a standardized measurement of these admittedly very different characters should evaluate them according to four criteria:

1) EXPLOSIVENESS: I think of this as more or less the "richter scale" measurement. There are some characters who can, through the use of their ability or even by a function of their card draw flexibility, turn a loss into a win for their side. Helena Cain's perennial top-tier ranking has much to do with her very high score in this category. Other characters whose greatest strength is in this area include Cally, Boomer, and Sam Anders. Brother Cavil's OPG also comes to mind as a potential game changer.

2) FREQUENCY: How often do the abilities or cards drawn help? Conversely, how rarely do the drawbacks hurt? OPTs like Laura Roslin's are going to help every turn, whereas Sam Anders' OPT is used far less frequently, notwithstanding the fact that I've personally seen a full-handed Anders camp out at Press Room and virtually guarantee the human fleet a Declare Emergency every time they XO'd him. That was awesome, in terms of his high ranking in category #1, but he's a crap character because of his very low ranking in this category and the next.

3) UNIVERSALITY: In order for this character's abilties to yield home runs (criterion #1, above) or be frequently utilitized (criterion #2), how many conditions beyond their control must be met? Helena Cain's abilities remain useful irrespective of her or her fellow players' loyalty or competence. On the other hand, a casual perusal of the other Military Leaders reveals that the abilities of each is dramatically affected by factors beyond their control. (e.g., Bill Adama's OPT actually hurts if he's a cylon. Saul Tigh's OPG is very weak if he is the same loyalty and his player similar in competence to the sitting president. Helo's OPT only matters if dice are rolled and failed during his turn. Gaeta's OPT conundrum is similar to Helo's, *and* his OPG is conditional.) 

4) VERSATILITY: Is the character static or dynamic? Put another way, do they simply "do what they do," or can they adapt to the game's shifting landscape? Apollo is the standout for this category, but Tory Foster also gets high marks; it seems Helo's worthy of an honorable mention.

Anyway, those are the four criteria I tend to apply to each. I'm sure a case could be made for one or two categories being more valuable than others; I know anecdotally that I've heard a lot of defenses of criteria #1 and #3 in this thread, while I have seen relatively fewer champions of #2 and #4. Although I don't often break out the calculator to perform my analysis, I guess I'd say that I think of the categories of roughly equivalent in their import.

Thoughts?

 



#83 Vonpenguin

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:39 PM

So after giving this some more thought I’ve decided to give this a try. I’m not going to lump them into tiers but instead give a fairly loose order of personal preference with reasons why.

 

Tom Zarek: I consider him one of the best political leaders in the game if for no other reason than his friends in low places power gives him very good control over the other players. As a human he can deny cylons a chance to do anything and as a cylon himself he can ruin the humans. And that’s before we get into card draw and once per game. The man is beastly in the right hands. He loses effectiveness in large games however.

Felix Gaeta: Best. Card draw. Ever. Ok maybe that’s an exaggeration but I mean really, he has all the adaptability of Apollo’s draw and then some. His weakness can be bad but not as crippling as some. His ftl operator power is great if a little annoying for a cylon on the down low and his OPG is awesome. Get out of the brig for free? Heck yeah.

Lee Apollo Adama: Like Gaeta he has a great draw, His powers are great and his weakness, while frustrating, is really only bad if you’re holding onto something amazing. In combat heavy games he can be even more valuable than chief.

Laura Roslin: Excellent draw with the addition of political prowess, a brilliant every turn ability and a potentially game winning OPG. Her weakness is bad but if you have at least one ally it can be mitigated somewhat. A lot of people don’t like her as president but I’ve never had to much issue with that in my group as we don’t go to the quorum that often, in fact I’d say that her weakness makes card discard crisis have less teeth since she’ll generally have either less cards if playing XOs or more if consolidating than most other presedents.

Helena Cain: Excellent Draw, Potentially game breaking OPG (Though I see flaws in it that others disagree with in terms of it’s effectivness). What keeps her this far down on my list though is her weakness, just as bad as Bill’s in different ways, and what I view as an extremely limited ability in intolerant.

Tory Foster: Great draw, great power if using a quorum friendly group, and very useful OPG. I hate her weakness though. I view it as much worse than some people seem to. I think she makes a good president but certainly one that needs to be watched extra closely. Too easy to explain away frivolously wasting quorum cards.

Karl Helo Agathon: His card draw is good and the ability to off pilot is useful but where he really shines is with his abilities. He can single handedly end games for either side. One of my favorite picks early in the turn order where his weakness loses its edge for the most part.

Chief Galen Tyrol: Not the most exciting character but in combat heavy games he’s worth his weight in gold. Maintenance Engineer and the two blue draw can keep you afloat when you should be space debris, his other cards are good, Blind devotion is solid if not flashy, and his weakness isn’t all that bad. Better than he looks.
Callandra Cally Tyrol: I love her OPT, her OPG is a great deterrent and fun for a reveal move and her draw is nice and versatile. The draw interacts badly with her weakness but overall it makes for a fun and useful character.

Anastasia Dee Dualla: Solid draw, incredibly useful powers in the right circumstances and a weakness that isn’t that bad overall. Kind of stuck in communications but that isn’t always a bad thing.

Saul Tigh: Good Skill draw, easily avoided weakness and when he’s good he’s very, very good. A bit restrictive in that his powers only comes up once or twice every few games or so but his ability to work with or against certain characters (Ellen/Zarek and Starbuck respectively) makes him a good late turn order choice.

Ellen Tigh: She’s good but as a human she can cause problems as her very existence in the game sows seeds of discord. Very good synergy with her husband though. Better in larger games where it’s easier to do your own thing and still use your OPT.

Sharon Boomer Valerii: Worst draw and weakness in the game counteracted by two of the best positive abilities around puts her roughly somewhere in the middle for me. Not much more to be said.

William Adama: I really want to like him, I really do, and for what it’s worth he really is an excellent human, especially when you know who’s on your side, but he’s just so overwhelmingly bad at both being a cylon and toaster hunting that I can’t rate him very highly.

Louanne Kat Katraine: Decent draw, good abilities to have handy even if they aren’t always the best course of action. Her weakness is bad but it can be worked around when needed, especially if Dee is also in play. She may not be optimal but she is fun.

Gaius Baltar: Here’s another character I want to like but don’t really. In a game of Trust his weakness is that he is distinctly not trustworthy, that makes it hard to do anything at all. Especially if you draw a human agenda. Delusional intuition is a double edged sword, good to pull what you need for skill checks but less utility during your turn. Cylon detector is good but again trust issues make it a tough sell.

Samuel T. Anders: That’s right, I’m not putting Anders dead last. He may not be a great pilot but he can adapt. Most pilots have the problem of being useless if the fighting isn’t heavy, Anders avoids that by only drawing red when needed. With the cylon fleet you know when an attack is coming and when it isn’t so he can prep his hand for crisis or combat as needed. I like that option even if it isn’t the best. His weakness is similar enough to Helo’s that I don’t see it as too bad though it is by no means a non weakness.

Kara Starbuck Thrace: I like her skill draw but other than that I really can’t say much good about Starbuck. Her first power looks good on paper but in play just doesn’t activate often enough. Her OPG is basically a slightly boosted scout with the disadvantage of everyone knowing what you did if you use it against the humans. Her weakness makes her a good target for witch hunts and awful if Saul has it in for her. All in all I just don’t like playing her.


Looking at all this after the fact it seems I like Pilots less, Political more, and that I find the military and support to be fairly balanced. Overall I’d say that’s a pretty good description of my views and that this was an interesting thought exercise.
 



#84 Holy Outlaw

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 02:37 PM

 Vonpenguin,

I've read your list twice now and I find it really interesting. It's too much to comment on all at once, so I'll try to dissect a couple of good bits. My first impression is that I agree with you a lot about the middle of the pack characters but I have questions about a couple of the highest (Zarek and Gaeta) and lowest (Baltar and Starbuck) rankings. I'll ask a proper question on one or two of these guys and lay out my feelings on them sometime this weekend. But I do find it generally a good list. Thanks!



#85 Vonpenguin

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 03:46 AM

Fair enough. Admittedly this list is loose in the extreme, I’d say depending on circumstances characters can have as much as a five ranking drift. One aspect I weighed quite heavily though, especially in terms of Baltar and Zarek, was their effect on the table discussions. Baltar tends to draw other players ire very easily and Tom is given a good amount of respect, which effects how I ranked them.

 

Also keep in mind I ranked these characters on pure mechanics. Going by how much I liked them on the show certain characters would be much higher or lower.
 



#86 subochre

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 04:08 AM

You make a lot of good points, but I think you may be overestimating the significance of Cain's (and Adama's) weakness.  All it means is that while it's still possible to jump (or brig) on their turn, they have to use one of their abundant XOs and ask someone else to do it.

Which can be a big deal in some games, don't get me wrong.  Outside of OPGs, those are basically the two most pivotal actions anyone can perform, so you'll want to be sure you really trust the person you're giving the FTL or brig keys to, or you'll be handing someone a nice reveal opportunity.

(...actually, I hadn't thought of it before, but being in that sort of high-stakes trust situation with one's subordinates adds a nice bit of theme for both characters; Adama, for example, couldn't brig Roslin himself, so he trusted Lee not to get all mutinous (whoops), and Cain, on the other hand, would rather shoot her XO than take that kind of chance)



#87 Skowza

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 10:56 AM

Interesting choices... I too am surprised that you put Zarek so high and Starbuck and Adama so low.  I have to say I think Starbuck is the 2nd best pilot, her OPT is really good if you can keep her in a Viper, and with the CAG title out there, there's a reason to XO her back out into space following a jump.  Her OPG is strong no matter what team she's playing or, and her weakness doesn't upset me much because we don't use the brig or go "witch hunting" much.  Adama... whats not to like?  His OPG is absolutely amazing, his weakness is virtually non-existent most of the time, and his OPT is good as long as he isn't a Cylon.  I used to play Zarek all the time, but I feel like other characters are much better choices now; sounds like he would be much more useful if your group brigs people more often and messes with the President too.



#88 Holy Outlaw

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 04:43 PM

Alright, I promised to articulate my thoughts on a few of these guys. For now I'll just do Tom Zarek.

Tom Zarek is definitively second-tier. While he isn't that bad, there is little to recommend him in comparison to other political leaders.

His drawback hurts. He's unplayable if you're going to NC, of course, but who are we kidding ... Still, while the drawback is generally manageable in large playgroups where he can afford to sit in the President's Office, you're likely to keep finding surprise ways that it hurts. One that's become bothersome lately is his inability to perform one of the basic power moves that political leaders have post-Exodus, which is to sit on the one Political Prowess until sleeper phase, then use it accordingly. While that's a very simple and predictable strategy, it's also very hard to stop for all the other political leaders. Unfortunately, Zarek begs you to shut him down by sitting on the airlock until you know his loyalty (or even after, if you find you're on different sides).

I find his OPT and OPG are weak. I know mileage varies, but I'd argue that Administration is rarely a better idea than Admiral's Quarters and Admiral's Quarters is often inferior to Airlock. Further, it's usually a bad idea to activate either until you've achieved consensus with the board about the check. These (admittedly anecdotal) observations make an extra +/- 2 on the check for the two weaker locations fairly insignificant. While Zarek's OPG is occasionally useful to buy a fuel, it's too bad you gain the fuel at the cost of the second most valuable resource, which is population. Obviously, if he could trade food or even morale, it would be much better. Thematically, of course, I totally get it. It's just not that strong.

His card set is beautiful. I'm always looking for a character that pulls exactly two green; less than that means not enough XOs, while more means a hand-jam, and you can't burn through XOs like you can with the other baseline commons, so two green is truly perfect. Then you have three more to choose from, and the only better split I could think of would be 1 yellow, 1 purple and 1 flex. His card draw is awesome. No doubt.

Maybe the best thing about Zarek, and the reason I don't necessarily rate him lower than the non-Tory Foster political leaders, is that he makes a competent and trustworthy president who can use the quorum deck effectively. Roslin can't use it well, Baltar isn't trustworthy enough to be given a handful of quorum cards, and Tigh can't afford to sit in the office all day. Zarek can be a capable if middle of the road president, not nearly in Tory Foster's league, but generally adequate.

 



#89 Skowza

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:48 AM

Holy Outlaw said:

Tom Zarek is definitively second-tier. While he isn't that bad, there is little to recommend him in comparison to other political leaders.

I find his OPT and OPG are weak. I know mileage varies, but I'd argue that Administration is rarely a better idea than Admiral's Quarters and Admiral's Quarters is often inferior to Airlock. Further, it's usually a bad idea to activate either until you've achieved consensus with the board about the check. These (admittedly anecdotal) observations make an extra +/- 2 on the check for the two weaker locations fairly insignificant. While Zarek's OPG is occasionally useful to buy a fuel, it's too bad you gain the fuel at the cost of the second most valuable resource, which is population. Obviously, if he could trade food or even morale, it would be much better. Thematically, of course, I totally get it. It's just not that strong.

I agree with most everything you said, but this in particular.  His OPT and OPG are more like an ace-in-the-hole and have proven to be less helpful than many other characters' abilities.  As I've stated, we don't use the Airlock, Administration, or Admiral's Quarters much; I bet between the 3 locations we activate one of them once in any given game.  But we also play games with 5+ people, his usefulness increases dramatically in a 4-player game.



#90 Holy Outlaw

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 04:09 PM

Skowza, that's about the same regularity my group has experienced with those locations. We tend to use the threat of them in bargaining or discussion, but we just don't the locations themselves too often. Sounds like our groups are similar in that regard.



#91 Hannibal Rex

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 07:07 PM

I like Zarek a lot, precisely because he isn't flashy. You're absolutely right in calling him middle of the road; but in a game in which a number of characters are badly designed, and some are outright broken, that's not a bad thing.

First of all, his rank in the line of succession will lead to a very interesting dynamic if he doesn't start as the President. Both Roslin and Baltar have drawbacks in that position, and Zarek's ability to rig elections will always make using Admin a valid option on the table. In a game of distrust and paranoia, that's just beautiful. He serves as an effective watchdog over the Presidency when he doesn't have it himself.

Even when you have the Airlock or Brig available, Political Leaders are less able to defend themselves against Admin by design. When you've got humans and soft-revealed Cylons facing off, every card counts.

Second, calling the Brig one of 'the two weaker locations' is hardly doing it justice. Throwing humans into the brig, and keeping them there, is one of the most crippling things soft-revealed Cylons can do, often more so than executing someone. Even without that, humans can end up in the brig in numerous ways. As insignificant as Zarek's simple +/-2 bonus seems, it will have a very noticeable effect in those situations.

His OPG isn't spectacular, but it's absolutely solid. It has only gotten better with the expansions and their many ways of swinging resources. It's especially useful in combination with Preventative Policy, which a human Zarek should absolutely always hold on to.



#92 Jitter

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:30 PM

 

I agree with everything you say about Boomer but I would like to add one important consideration. If she is a Cylon pre-sleeper phase she's brutal. She has a lot of resources to hinder the ship from. Almost every skill check she can spike, she has the ability to put two important crisis cards on the bottom a turn and ofc her OPG can be completely devastating. One time 3 people where in the armory shooting at a centurion (I know they misplayed by not XO'ing each other) and the missing g4 crisis card came up and an OPG later most of the crew was in the brig. 

That being said I think she is not a very good cylon from the sleeper phase. Our general rule is "don't let her out unless she uses her OPG to pass a check." and maybe we play wrong but she can still play launch scout from the brig, so most of the time she sits there and she cannot favorably leave the brig. On average she is a low tier character but with some luck she can be scary 

 



#93 Rullys

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:24 PM

I have not yet played with the Exodus expansion, so my tiers are only based on the core game and Pegasus:

Admiral-

#1 Helena Cain: Being able to execute anyone being sent to the Brig is nasty, and her OPG may be the best in the game. She's an excellent human and with the right timing and skill, she can be a very effective cylon.

#2 William Adama: A well balanced Admiral. Inspirational leader could really come in handy and his OPG could help in tight spots. Unfortunately I feel he doesn't benefit much as a cylon thanks to his first ability, but as a human he really shines.

#3 Karl "Helo" Agathon: His negative ability is a simple road bump; he has two excellent abilities that could benifit either a cylon or human player that chooses him. It also helps that he's my favorite character on the show.

#4 Saul Tigh: His negative ability hurts, but is OPG is very effective as is his cylon hatred. Personally I feel he is strongest as a cylon, but he's very useful as a human as well... just not as useful as the other 3 which is why he's tier 4.

President-

#1 Laura Roslin: While her negative ability raises eyebrows and it hurts her versatility, a President shouldn't be activating many locations anway. Her Religious Visions and OPG are abilities both a human and cylon player should find very useful.

#2 Ellen Tigh: Gods help the humans if she's a cylon. Ellen may be the most manipulative character in the game. In the right hands she can be either a powerful ally or a sneaky toaster. Her negative ability makes her suspicious, unfortunately, but a good player could make use of it.

#3 Gaius Baltar: Yes people are always suspicious of him thanks to his Coward ability, but one can't deny the power of his positive abilities. Being able to draw any card outside his skill set after his crisis and using said card to either help the humans or sneak it as a negative into a skill check to put the blame on someone else is nothing to scoff at and his Cylon Detector is unrivaled (though it will likely become less useful once Daybreak releases).

#4 Tom Zarek: A decent Political Leader. While his abilities are nothing mind blowing, with the right timing he can do some serious work, especially if he's a cylon.

Pilot-

#1 Lee "Apollo" Adama: I don't have Exodus and so I'm unaware of how useful the CAG Title is or how it works, but as a regular pilot Lee excells. Being able to hop on any viper just placed on the board and immediately take an action is a big advantage for the humans and his CAG ability helps in a pinch. He's at his best as a human player.

#2 Kara "Starbuck" Thrace: The advantage she gets by staying in a viper is very helpful and her OPG, like Lee's, could prove useful in emergencies. Unfortunately she's easy to brig and is mostly helpful as a human; althouhh her OPG could have cylon benifits.

#3 Louanne "Kat" Katraine: A versatile pilot herself, Kat is an excellent crew member as a human and, with some luck and skill, could pull off sneaky moves with her Headshot ability if she's a cylon, particularly with the new Exodus nuke rules.. Also, pilots have great emergency OPGs and Kat's is no different.

#4 Sharon "Boomer" Valerii: If it wasn't for her negative ability, Sharon may be a spot higher, but because people are immidiately suspicious about her and she can't play around that as well as someone like Baltar, she ranks 4th in the pilot line up. She shines as a cylon, but it's difficult to get people to trust her. As a human she could definitely benifit the fleet.. but people would still have a hard time trusting her.

Support-

#1 "Chief" Galen Tyrol: Frustrating negative ability, but his OPT is amazing -- definitely among the most useful in the game. Blind Devotion is also a nice bonus.

#2 Anastasia "Dee" Dualla: Far from a bad support character, even with her negative ability, she is just outranked by Galen through no fault of her own. Being able to move all civilian ships is a very dramatic ability and somethin both human and cylon players could find useful. Fast Learner is also a very helpful ability.

Edited by Rullys, 08 July 2013 - 06:26 PM.


#94 MouseTKE

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:16 PM

One thing I haven't seen on here is a ranking of the Cylon Leaders, so I'll attempt to post my thoughts here:

 

#1 - Cavil - I like him for first turn Primacy. It's a strong play regardless of your mission. It puts pressure on the Admiral to fire a nuke, or if any of the ships move in the turns leading up to the Admiral, you put the Humans in a predicament right off the bat. Usually, fast jumping isn't an option, and some damage will be done with this. As a Human Supporter, he's still got quite a bit going for him with first turn Primacy, as it helps to hasten the resource loss, and damage to Galactica, forcing Humans into sacrificing resources just to take out ships. Either way, it's win/win. As a Cylon's must win scenario, being able to sit on Cylon Fleet, and use his ability to just race a toaster along the track, is VERY VERY threatening. If you have a revealed Cylon immediately to your left or right, you threaten the game from just getting a toaster on board the ship at a bad point in the game. Very powerful!!! If you are a Human Supporter in a Cylon body, you have options to help them out with your OPG quite healthly as well. Choose him if you like to win by Heavy Raiders (Toasters) often. He can usually come out of left field to crush the humans via the move the toaster as fast as possible plan.

 

#2 - Leoben - His ability to swap hands with another player only really allows him to sabotage more skill checks than the average Cylon. (Taking cards from someone hoarding for a skill check win, and using those cards to sabotage/trash another skill check) Which, while strong, isn't entirely the most damaging thing in the game. Skill checks will fail all on their own most of the time. Grabbing Destiny deck cards is a little too random for my tastes, and not being able to move into a space with someone else can be downright detrimental. The fact that he can remove Consolidate Power from non-Engineering characters make damage to the ship with the main support in the Brig/Sickbay/being a Cylon even more detrimental. All in all, he's got the power to crush the humans or help them to suit his goals, but has an element of randomness to him that sometimes can mean you just lose the game. He at least can sometimes come out of left field to crush the Humans.

 

#3 - Caprica Six - She's got her ups/downs. She can benefit the Humans greatly, by giving them cards outside their skillset, or as a Cylon, just filling their hand with Treachery cards at no cost to her. Drawing additional cards is good, as it allows her to either help/hurt skill checks on a more regular basis. Coupled with the ability to trash a skill check with her OPG that barely passes. Not being able to Cylon Fleet effectively is a pretty big drawback, but not terrible costed, so it can be done if necessary. In all, Leoben just handles the cards and skill check trashing just better than Caprica. She can be seen as a Human Supporter early game and all game long though. She's either Human/Cylon from the start, and as such is predictable in her goals and missions.

 

Once, the Daybreak expansion comes out. Hopefully, all these rankings will shift greatly. But right now, it's 8 times out of 10 going to be Cavil coming to do the dirty work.


Edited by MouseTKE, 15 July 2013 - 04:16 PM.

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#95 MouseTKE

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:27 PM

I'd also like to point out my thoughts on the great 'Boomer' debate:

 

Her ability to Launch Scout every turn, is really strong. For either playing her as a Human or a Cylon. The difficulty most have with her is the ability to play as a sub-par human during the first phase knowing full well they might become a Cylon during Sleeper, and then trying to race to do damage. If you play too Human early, by the time Sleeper comes you have little time to do real damage. If you play too Cylon and end up being Human, you are fighting an up-hill battle that way.

 

Her ability is incredibly strong to keep the humans jumping along. Or as an unrevealed Cylon to hinder the Humans by filtering for abusive Cylon Fleet actions in the Skill Checks. Her strength lies in that as a soft-revealed Cylon she's still an incredible threat. Even more so than most other unrevealed Cylons. Her skill card draw set is diverse enough that you can silently trash a few skill checks along the way (1-2 Piloting Cards going in at the wrong time...oops). Her biggest drawback is that if she's the only Pilot and doesn't spend much time in space, because the other Pilots are that much better at it than her. But still having a diverse skill card draw is better to all-around a character so that if they are dealt a "You are a.." Cylon card, they can better soft-reveal or stay hidden by trashing skill checks.


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#96 subochre

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 03:36 PM

Leoben is so much fun.  It's true that he's not a blunt instrument like Cavil, but the way I see his abilities, they're as much about reducing randomness as they are susceptible to it.  His command of the destiny deck is the envy of pre-Pegasus Investigative Committee; what's more, if he plays an IC on his turn, he'll be the last one to play into a check that he (and he alone :devil:) knows exactly what it takes to pass or fail it.  And, much as in the show, his per-turn ability provides not only spooky insights, but opportunities for misdirection and sowing confusion. For me, the most annoyingly metagamey part of the game is counting the reds, blues, and oranges in destiny, but when Leoben's around, the only one who can really do that is Leoben himself.



#97 Skowza

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 04:03 PM

I also like Leoben quite a bit, but its hard to get the Humans to trust you when you're manipulating the deck. Even when you tell them what you did and are honest about it they still don't like you much. Thankfully the Agendas will be gone soon so the CLs can really have a free hand!




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