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The Ending theory


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#21 JerusalemJones

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 07:43 AM

I still maintain that Aegon is Darkstar.



#22 DerBarchen

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 08:29 AM

JerusalemJones said:

I still maintain that Aegon is Darkstar.

Wouldnt he be too old? Aegon is younger than Dany and shes only what? 18 by the end of Feast?



#23 ingsve

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 02:32 AM

I always envisioned the ending to be that the next generation from all parts of the world come together, united in peace,  and have taken the place of the people who were there when the books starts.

I could see for example Arya finishing the books as Master of Whisperers and Samwell as Grand Maester of Kings Landing etc. Perhaps Jon on the throne. Rickon as lord of Winterfell etc.



#24 JerusalemJones

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 04:44 AM

DerBarchen said:

JerusalemJones said:

 

I still maintain that Aegon is Darkstar.

 

 

Wouldnt he be too old? Aegon is younger than Dany and shes only what? 18 by the end of Feast?

AEgon was a babe when the Lannister's sacked King's Landing. not sure of his exact age, but I'm thinking around 2. Dany was born after the sack, but before the taking of Dragonstone.

At the start of the books, it is 13 years after the rebellion. Dany is 13, Robb and Jon are 14. By the end of book 3, at least 2 years have passed. If Aegon was 2 at the time of the taking of KL, then it is easy to put Aegon at 18 years old, if he survives. Babes that young can be easily switched for protection.

This part gets muddy, but there are a few things that are possible based on some known facts.

Fact #1: The Targaryens tend to have platinum blonde/white hair and purple eyes. The Dayne's tend to favor the looks of the Targaryens. Darkstar has white/platinum hair and eyes so dark they appear to be purple. These are cosmetic, and somewhat weak to base a believe on by themselves.

Fact #2: Three of the Kingsguard are guarding the Tower of Joy at a time when, by all "known" facts, no member of the royal family is there, only Lyanna Stark. What can we make of this? Lots of things. Just starting with Lyanna, many of us (myself included) believe her to be Jon Snow's true mother, the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar. If we assume that Rhaegar married Lyanna, then her child would have been a legitimate heir to the throne. This makes her and her (at the time) unborn son part of the royal family, and thus the Kingsguard would be duty bound to protect them. The same is also true if they brought baby Aegon with them to Dorne; there is no doubt that this is the true heir to the Iron Throne if Aerys II and Rhaegar die. And what better place to hide his heir than with the woman many believe to have been kidnapped against her will.

Fact #3. Doran Martell says "Darkstar...is the most dangerous man in Dorne." I belive this is an exact quote, including the pause. Yet when we are first introduced to Darkstar, he fails to kill a 13(?) year old girl before riding off into hiding. So he obviously isn't the greatest warrior in Dorne. Something else must make him dangerous. So,Doran either knows, or suspects, that Darkstar is Aegon Targaryen.

Fact #4: After the fight at the Tower of Joy, Eddard rides to Asahra Dayne, who shortly thereafter kills herself. Stories are that it is either over the loss of her brother Arthur, or by being spurned by Eddard. It is easy to assume that Eddard, having left the ToJ with two babes, chooses to have one represent his own bastard child (the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna) and gives one to Ashara for the Daynes to hide, sincebaby Aegon looks like a Dayne. Asahra takes the babe, goes into hiding (of some sort), and the stories are told of her suicide.

If Aegon is still alive, Darkstar is the likeliest candidate.

Now, there are holes in this theory (ktom and I have discussed this before). For example, if Darkstar is the true heir, why would Doran scheme to wed Viserys to Arianne in the belief that she would become queen of the Seven Kingdoms (his letter to Quentyn shows us this belief). It is possible that at the time Doran knew not of Darkstar's true identity, or else he would scheme to make Viserys the only known heir and keep Darkstar in hiding (Darkstar appears to have no idea that he could be someone else than he truly is). We know so little of Ashara Dayne, she very well might have killed herself. Then who would be hiding the young child.

Any possible clues about Aegon surviving and who/where he is are few and far between, and need to be conjectured. But I think it at least is possible.



#25 DerBarchen

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 06:11 AM

Aye I was just coming online to take back what I said about him being to young, my girlfriend schooled me at Thrones knowledge by pointing out that Dany was born after Ageon >.<

Thats actually a cool theory then! It would explain why Darkstar was included at all if you ask me, since his purpose so far has been basically non-existant. That said I think the argument that Doran wouldnt need Dany or Viserys then is a very strong one. Doran just wants the rightfull king on the throne and Ageon would have the best claim, easily.



#26 Syd

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 11:45 AM

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that baby Aegon currently has a claim to the Throne, especially by the laws of Dorne (which it is fair to assume Doran would honor). Aegon is the son of Rhaegar, who was the heir until his death on the Trident. At the moment of Rhaegar's death, I believe that Viserys was then King Aerys eldest son. Does that not make him the heir? Then of course Viserys dies at the hands of Khal Drogo. According to the laws of Dorne, a female has the right of succession as well. Which, I think in Doran's eyes, puts Dany as the rightful Queen. 

If The Mad Kind had somehow died before Rhaegar, then Aegon (if still alive) would be the Heir. But of course it didn't happen this way, and unless I am missing something (any experts on the laws of Westerosi succession out there?) Dany is the Heir, by Westerosi, Valyrian, and Dornish tradition. 

Perhaps the "most dangerous man in Dorne" line points towards Darkstar's cruel nature coupled with the reality that if he is Aegon, then he is second in line since Dany has no heir herself. If he knew how close he was to a Targaryen throne, he might be dangerous indeed for Dany and for Doran's plans. 



#27 DerBarchen

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:25 AM

No no, you are indeed correct. I think Doran wouldn't have bothered with Viserys at all if he had a better heir right under his nose. All this confusion is mainly due to the fact that its hard to keep track of the Targaryen family line >.<



#28 JerusalemJones

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:19 PM

According to the laws of Westeros (and the Frey's talk about this in detail), the sons of the eldest child are first in line before the second sons of the current lord/king. if the first son dies, his first son becomes the new heir, until all of his children are dead, then it passes to the next child in line.

Dorne has their own laws of succession, and tehy also count the female line.



#29 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 07:08 PM

AWSOME , cool post .



#30 Rogue Cypher

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 02:22 PM

Just jumping back to the discussion about the Lord Commander position "1000" being of importance. I have to agree that this number will arise by the time the series will end and the 1001st will come into play with the generic and cliche "and so a new dawn of the Wall was started".

 

In my head I see Stannis moving South to King's Landing to try and sac it. And in the process, brings Jon down from the Wall to lead an invading army to the Eyrie where he finds Sansa still alive. And then brings her with him to King's Landing after Stannis succeeds. After this, I see Jon becoming the Lord of Winterfell and removing the "Snow" bastard name, period, and it's negative light as best he can. With all that, I then see someone being quickly brought in then killed by assassination at The Wall. Possibly a returning Stonesnake (someone who is expendable but can be of value for plot device reasons) who has news of the Wights coming. Janos then assassinating him then taking control. Upon hearing this, Jon Snow goes North, sentences Janos for his treason against his Lord Commander then elects Samwell as the 1001st Lord Commander.

 

That is how I see the whole "Lord Commander" situation going through. Like most said, with 3 books still left (including Dance), 1000 is a very close number to not have significance. And to give it a bit more importance, having Janos be it and by killing his predecessor gives a reason for his own execution at last and electing Samwell who will more than likely go back to Jon rather than to Dany as eluded to.

 

But I don't know. Seems a bit much to go through, but also seems possible in my own head.



#31 Rogue Cypher

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 02:25 PM

Whoops, I didn't mean Janos. I confused characters, my mistake. I meant for it to be Cotter Pyke, not Janos.



#32 JerusalemJones

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 12:35 PM

Actually, it sounded better as Janos assassinating the LCotNW after Jon (who very well could be Cotter Pyke). That is something that Janos would attempt.

However, I can't see that happeneing. First off, GRRM is famous (infamous) for defying all convention in this series. Anyone willing to kill off major characters is not going to do something that likely has a trope associated with it. Also, as Samwell puts it in the the series, even though they refer to Jon as the 998th Lord Commander, records put it closer 600 or 700 something.

I also don't believe that Jon would leave the Wall for any reason, and especially not for Stannis. If anything, I could see Stannis throwing his weight and men around to force the Watch to his control (though it seems almost out of character) and then for Melisandre' to step in and throw her support behind Jon. Actually, I don't see Stannis making his way south at all while the Others are massing. He came to the wall to fight the Others, so his case will be more about convincing the rest of the kingdom the threat is real and he's the Lord Protector of the Realm.



#33 Xenu's Paradox

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 03:44 PM

The Wall will come down by the end of the series.  As long as it's up, the Others aren't much threat to the Seven Kingdoms.

My prediction: ADwD will chronicle the return of Dany to Westeros, conquering the Seven Kingdoms with her dragons and the Unsullied.  At the end of the book, or the beginning of The Winds of Winter, the Others will get their hands on the Horn of Winter and bring down the Wall.  The Winds of Winter will cover the war between the Others and the people of Westeros.  Dany, Jon, and the third head (Tyrion or Darkstar, probably) will ride Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion against the armies of the Others.  The Greyjoys and their bannermen will fight the Others on the seas.  Stannis and his Asshai'i host will fight the Others with the magic of R'hllor.  Howland Reed will finally show up and kick some ass as well.

The war will rage through TWoW and into ADoS.  At the end, the Others will be defeated, but the long winter will not be over yet, hence the title "A DREAM of Spring"... Spring isn't here yet, but with the Others gone, the winter won't last forever.

When the dust settles, Stannis will be dead, Jon will be King of the North (Everything north of the Neck) with Mance and the former Wildlings as House Rayder, Darkstar/Tyrion/whoever the third head is will be King of the South (the Neck to Dorne), and Dany will be Queen of the East (Braavos to the Shadow).



#34 bloodycelt

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 07:38 PM

 OK my prediction:

(1) Dance with Dragons

         - Dany's control of Meeren will collapse as it did for Cersei. She will end up losing her Unsullied, her dragons (to Victarion), and Barristan. At that point Quentyn will take custody of her and bring her, Illyrio, Tyrion to Dorne. 

         - Victarion will take the dragons and use them to pillage Westeros and kill Euron. 

         - Reek (Theon) will watch Ramsay marry and torture/kill "Arya Stark" and see his sister killed by Boltons, at the end he will forget he's Theon. And he will be the POV that we see the Bolton's reassert control over the North.

         - Cersei has chapters, so I assume its either a trial and death, or she gets rescued but loses all the power she had as Kevin takes control of King's Landing.

         - Arya adapts to being blind. She's abandoned by the temple and becomes a beggar.  

         - The battle between the Others and the wall begins, and the wall falls (clifhanger at that point).

(2) Wind's of Winter

         - Dany schemes with Doran on getting back her dragons. But then realizes the Dornish are just using her. This becomes moot when the Lannisters fall anyhow.

         - Victarion manages to plunder most of Westeros except Dorne, and the north.

         - Sansa kills Littlefinger, takes control of the Eyrie, and then is taken as a salt wife by one of Victarion's men.

         - The north is overrun to the neck, but then only a few Nights Watch and Mel escape to the south, which is a burned wasteland. Jon Snow is presumed missing. 

(3) Dream of Spring

       - Chronicles Bran returning with the Children of the Forest to battle the Others. At this point almost everyone else is dead. I suspect most of the other plot threads will remain unresolved and the question of Jon Snow's heritage will be unanswered. 

         



#35 Chipsdtown

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 01:23 AM

I disagree with the most annoying character is Sansa because she has not thought of her own and lives in some fantasy world were a knight will save her.



#36 Marlow

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 07:46 PM

Winds of Winter

  • The North finally becomes aware that the Others exist and are an imminent threat. The Boltons either soil themselves or figure out a way to try and use the chaos to their advantage.
  • Manderly's fleet comes in handy for any evacuations.
  • Davos finds Rickon and Osha and discovers a secret about Skagos and the people there.
  • Dany gets four chapters where nothing happens.

Dream of Spring

  • Readers discover the title is misleading, it's just people wishing things were better as they are attacked or starve to death during the Long Night.
  • If the Boltons survive to this volume, they die during it.
  • Arya returns to Westeros, but will anyone ever recognize her?
  • Sandor vs. Gregor (hollow event for Sandor as his brother is now an empty shell)

Next Volume

  • More people starving and freezing to death.
  • Howland Reed and Bran are on what is now the Front Line near the Neck. Westeros has rallied what remains of their military commanders to try and halt the southward progress of the Others.
  • Various characters reflect on how people like Ned Stark and Tywin Lannister would have come in handy if they were still alive.
  • Randyll Tarly apologizes to Sam before riding into what will be his final battle.

Next Volume

  • The Others push all the way to Dorne.
  • Westerosi survivors flee to the Free Cities.
  • Dany finally gets involved in the war effort.

Next Volume...






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