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River Blockade


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#1 Rozy

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 02:53 AM

If I have two River Blockades in play do both cancel the first location effect played by my opponent? Is the other Blockade wasted then?



#2 ktom

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 03:37 AM

Yes. Both copies of River Blockade would try to cancel the same location effect. It's not that the second one is "wasted" so much as that it will never have anything to cancel (assuming the first copy is successful in ints attempt to cancel) - but two copies in play is redundant.



#3 Ratatoskr

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 05:01 AM

ktom said:

Yes. Both copies of River Blockade would try to cancel the same location effect. It's not that the second one is "wasted" so much as that it will never have anything to cancel (assuming the first copy is successful in ints attempt to cancel) - but two copies in play is redundant.

Let's see if I got this right.

1. The effect on River Blockade is not a Cancel Response but rather a passive ability, because it is not prefaced by Response:, right? So it resolves in step 4 of the action window, not in step 2, right?

2. As a passive ability, it can be canceled, right? (If it was a Cancel Response, and resolved in step 2 of the action window, it couldn't be canceled, right?)

3. There is no card in the card pool right now that could cancel the effect of River Blockade, right? Cards like Seasick or To Be A Kraken couldn't cancel it, because it is a passive ability and not a Triggered Effect, right? He Calls It Thinking couldn't cancel it because it is not a Response, right?

4. Let's assume there was an event card called, say, Obtuse Noob, that says "Response: Cancel one passive ability", that card could cancel the effect of River Blockade, right?

5. So, let's say I have two copies of River Blockade on the table. My opponent triggers a location effect. Then, my first copy of River Blockade cancels that effect. Then, my opponent uses Obtuse Noob to cancel my River Blockade. The effect from my second copy of River Blockade was not canceled, though, so my opponent's location effect would still be cancelled, right? So, my opponent would need two copies of Obtuse Noob to get his location effect through, right?

So, in this highly speculative scenario, two copies of River Blockade would not be redundant, right?

Sorry to waste your time with a totally moot point such as this, but I would really like to understand the finer workings of the rules better, and purely hypothetical questions such as this can help there.



#4 ktom

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 07:54 AM

Ratatoskr said:

Let's see if I got this right.

1. The effect on River Blockade is not a Cancel Response but rather a passive ability, because it is not prefaced by Response:, right? So it resolves in step 4 of the action window, not in step 2, right?

Not quite. It is a passive effect rather than a Response, but because it uses the 'magic' word "cancel," the passive activates (whether you want it to or not) in Step 2. It's no different than a Response using the word "cancel" working in Step 2 instead of Step 5.

There is nothing about Steps 1-3 that insist upon triggered abilities. And in the end, cancel effects - active or passive - must interrupt something. If you wait until Step 4, the thing you are trying to cancel will have already resolved in Step 3 and you'll be too late.

Ratatoskr said:

2. As a passive ability, it can be canceled, right? (If it was a Cancel Response, and resolved in step 2 of the action window, it couldn't be canceled, right?)
Cancel effects, whether passive or active/Responses, can themselves be canceled. Anything that has a point of initiation can be interrupted by a save or a cancel effect. It's not written on the flowcharts, but Step 2 has a I., II., III. structure (like Step 4 and Step 5) in which cancels - or saves - can themselves be canceled. If it didn't, cards like Drinking the Sea would have no place to be played.

Ratatoskr said:

3. There is no card in the card pool right now that could cancel the effect of River Blockade, right? Cards like Seasick or To Be A Kraken couldn't cancel it, because it is a passive ability and not a Triggered Effect, right? He Calls It Thinking couldn't cancel it because it is not a Response, right?
Correct. Even though River Blockade could be canceled, based on the timing structure, there is no "cancel" card in the LCG card pool (to my knowledge) with appropriate play restrictions to do it.

Ratatoskr said:

4. Let's assume there was an event card called, say, Obtuse Noob, that says "Response: Cancel one passive ability", that card could cancel the effect of River Blockade, right?

5. So, let's say I have two copies of River Blockade on the table. My opponent triggers a location effect. Then, my first copy of River Blockade cancels that effect. Then, my opponent uses Obtuse Noob to cancel my River Blockade. The effect from my second copy of River Blockade was not canceled, though, so my opponent's location effect would still be cancelled, right? So, my opponent would need two copies of Obtuse Noob to get his location effect through, right?

So, in this highly speculative scenario, two copies of River Blockade would not be redundant, right?

Correct. But I did not go into that possibility because, as you say, there is no card effect that could currently create that situation in the LCG. I thought it better not to confuse people with the possibility unless someone brought it up - and here you are. 



#5 Rising Dragon

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Posted 10 April 2011 - 07:37 AM

Does River Blockade work for multiple opponents? For example if playing a four player melee game, would cancel the first triggered location for each opponent or just the player triggers one first?



#6 ktom

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Posted 10 April 2011 - 10:54 AM

Rising Dragon said:

Does River Blockade work for multiple opponents? For example if playing a four player melee game, would cancel the first triggered location for each opponent or just the player triggers one first?
No. The wording "an opponent" is there to make sure that if you are the first player to trigger a location effect in a round, it won't be canceled. If it canceled the first location effect triggered by each opponent in a round, it would say each opponent instead of "an opponent."

There is only one "first location effect triggered by an opponent each round," so only one effect can be canceled each round.



#7 FATMOUSE

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Posted 10 April 2011 - 11:46 AM

I just want to double check: 

River Blockade doesn't "work" the round it is marshalled if an opponent already triggered a location effect prior to its marshalling, correct?



#8 ktom

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Posted 10 April 2011 - 01:29 PM

Correct. "First" is still "first." Anything initiated after it is played would still be "second" or above.



#9 Penfold

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 10:33 AM

 But if no location effects had been triggered then the next one would be the first yes?



#10 FATMOUSE

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 11:02 AM

Penfold said:

 But if no location effects had been triggered then the next one would be the first yes?

Yes, it would cancel it.



#11 Penfold

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 11:12 AM

 Thank you for the confirmation Ser.



#12 Vankata

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:29 AM

Does this affect the Kingdoms in the same way?

 

If I play the first kingdom and afterwards I play the second will it be reduced or I'll have to pay the 1 gold?

 

Cheers,



#13 Khudzlin

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:53 AM

It affects only triggered effects (that begin with a bold timing descriptor like Marshalling). Braavos/Myr/etc. do not have triggered effects, so they are unaffected (also, they do not reduce each other unless you're playing Neutral Faction, because they're in-House if you don't).



#14 Vankata

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 02:58 AM

I'm referring to the Neutral Faction. Here are the details. I play Neutral Conquest Something.

I play one of the Kingdoms from hand (First out of house All houses). Will this kingdom reduce the next kingdom this round I'll have to pay all of them.

 

This is to reference to posts #6 to #8.



#15 Khudzlin

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 03:10 AM

It won't, because you have already played an out-of-House <insert relevant House here> card that turn (the first Kingdom). However, it will work in following turns.



#16 Vankata

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 04:50 AM

Thanks. Now I don't know if I've played it correct or wrong till now.



#17 Khudzlin

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:57 AM

The most important is that you play it right from now on.






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