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#41 Jiltedtoo

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 11:18 PM

 This discussion reminds me of playing a few weeks ago where I had to explain for 20 minutes why a hero can suck up damage for a squad done by a flame thrower. Trying to explain to the person that the damage is done the squad as a whole, not the individual members of the squad and because the hero is part of the squad they can absorb some of the damage (if not all of it).

After 20 minutes of trying to convince the person and even showing them the rules in the rule book, as well as the rules for snipers (being able to select members of a squad for damage), I had thought I had explained it well enough. The following week the same person still brought up the same argument  claiming they couldn't understand the rule.

I guess some people have a problem understanding the context of a rule within the larger rule set. 



#42 Kerrahn

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 03:46 AM

Different topic from the question / responses above:

Does a unit with the Spotter rule (ie. Sniper Teams) confer this onto any hero that joins the squad?

Example: Would Rosie's Bazooka hit on 'blanks' instead of 'hits' if she joined the Sniper Team?

If so, that'd be awesome, able to 1-shot the starting box walkers 2 / 3 of the time.



#43 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 04:07 AM

 yes , it says the unit has the ability as long as the spotter is alive , and any ability that effects a hero effects a squad , and vise versa . 

 

but unless you only play the same oppoinent every single game ,  and its some one who just doesnt "get it " , rosie is better served running in a bot hunting squad . sure , she may not get the same odds , but she is kinda fragile in that she is to short ranged , and only really has the bazooka and a weak knife attack .

having her in a bot hunting squad gives you 3 expendable troops that you can afford to lose and still have 3 bazookas , so the squad can take 6 damage , and still be a real threat to tanks , having 3 bazookas . in the  sniper squad , once the unit has taken 5 damage , she is all alone .

your strategy , only really would work on small boards , and even then , its very iffy . any thing larger than 3X3 , and your opponent has plenty of space to maneuver to take the sniper team on with infantry up close , or vehicles at longer rnages .

 

 

but after having played snipers , i do admit they need a hero in the squad just to actually last long enough to get into the fight , because of the short range of the sniper rifle  . for the americans , ATM , bazooka joe is a better idea , not to benifit joe , but to benifit the sniper squad since they are fire magnets , and putting a hero in a sniper team only draws MORE fire if the hero has an offensive weapon or ability like rosies bazooka ..



#44 smith2332

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 09:15 AM

 - Heavy walkers are lumbering beasts, as they should be. They need to perform MOVE+MOVE in order to fully deploy onto the board, and moving around cluttered terrain will be a hassle. Attack LOS is thankfully quite simple.

What if the deployment zone is two full tiles, basically 18 squares, does a big walker still have it do a MOVE + MOVE to enter the board. Or one MOVE to enter on to four squares and second ACTION to ether ATTACK or MOVE? Can a large walker ever deploy an ATTACK?



#45 Loophole Master

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 09:28 AM

Yeah, I suppose if the deployment zone is not just a line at the edge of the board, but a large area inside it (say, like SeeLowe 3), then you can fully deploy a heavy walker with just the first action, and use the second one to attack.

 



#46 smith2332

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 04:20 AM

 Yeah i suppose doesnt really go along with the Operation Cerberus wording below on Heavy Mechs though?  This why its very confusing, wish they would state only apply's to single line deployment zones. 

Entering the Battlefield
Like any other unit, large vehicles must use a MOVE action to enter the battlefield. Until
they are completely on the battlefield, large vehicles cannot perform any actions other
than the MOVE action, and cannot be targeted by an attack. Because of their size, some
large vehicles cannot fully enter the battlefield with a single move action. These units
must perform a second MOVE action to enter the battlefield.



#47 Loophole Master

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 04:47 AM

Well, they kinda clear the issue then muddle it up again in the same sentence.

"Until they are completely on the battlefield, large vehicles cannot perform any actions other than the MOVE action" - This sentence explains everything. They can't do anything else until they are fully inside the board. In case of a wide area of deployment, they would be completely on the battlefield with their first move, in case of a linear deployment zone at the edge of the map, it would take another move to fully enter the board.

"These units must perform a second MOVE action to enter the battlefield." - This sentence tries to muddle things up, so it's better to just ignore it.



#48 Major Mishap

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 05:34 AM

 You need to read the whole rule in context though and not just highlight one line from it.  If a mech can't deploy in one action then it has to use both, thats all there is to it really.



#49 smith2332

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 04:59 AM

 Just to clarify I wasn't highlighting that part, its how the rulebooks shows it.  They highlight that part in the Cerberus Rules, like I said it would of been way more clear if they just would of said it only applys to single line deployment zones.  But yes I get that's what they where referring too.  Thanks



#50 smith2332

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:42 AM

 Just so everyone knows I got a response back from Fantasy Flight Games and the heavy walkers must perform a Move+Move to enter the board from any deployment zone.  see below

 

Heavy Walkers must always perform two MOVE actions when deploying on the board, no matter where, or how large, the deployment zone is.

I hope this has answered your question. Happy gaming!


Christopher Hosch
Associate Game Producer
Fantasy Flight Games
chosch@fantasyflightgames.com



#51 Loophole Master

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:52 AM

That doesn't really solve anything. We already knew heavy walkers had to perform two Move actions to deploy. The issue is whether those two actions must be taken in the same round.

 

And this answer actually raises more issues than it solves. So now they're saying that even if the deployment zone is in the middle of the board, and the first move already puts the entire walker inside it, it somehow needs to perform a second Move action? That makes no sense and is not hinted at in the original rules at all.



#52 Major Mishap

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:53 AM

Well 99% of us thought that anyway, so I guess its the same when the deployment zone isn't on a table edge then?



#53 Loophole Master

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:00 AM

It just makes no sense to force the player to move the heavy walker around when it's already fully on the board with the first move. Or are they saying that just placing it on the board already consumes both actions?



#54 smith2332

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:24 AM

Loophole Master said:

It just makes no sense to force the player to move the heavy walker around when it's already fully on the board with the first move. Or are they saying that just placing it on the board already consumes both actions?

 

Actually it makes perfect sense if you break it down with the understanding that one Move action only gets the heavy on to two squares of the board, so if you where to plop the Heavy mech in the middle of the board that takes up 4 squares that would force the Heavy mech to have to use both Move actions to get that.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.



#55 Loophole Master

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:26 AM

So before the heavy walker performs its second deployment Move at the center of the board, it's rearing up on its hind legs?!!



#56 smith2332

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:34 AM

Loophole Master said:

So before the heavy walker performs its second deployment Move at the center of the board, it's rearing up on its hind legs?!!

 

You can view it how ever you like 

I'm just saying that a Heavy gets two squares per move, so for it to take up 4 squares right off the bat would force it to use both Moves, again a lot of things in this game don't make logical sense because it would break the game mechanics.

Don't even get me started with the Cerberus building and being on the roof LOL



#57 Gimp

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 06:50 AM

The situation gets odd for scenarios where units are able to deploy fully on the board, rather than entering from an edge.

If a heavy walker drops down onto a different area of the board (ex: the bridge deployment zones from Victory Bridge, or the airborne drops from Operation: Seelowe), why is it limited to taking two move actions when the first action places it fully on the board?

It also brings questions for the Fireball's Scout Vehicle ability.  Scout Vehicle specifies the unit can move two additional spaces on the first turn, and there is nothing in the FAQ specifying those two spaces cannot be used on the first deployment move, so the Fireball could fully enter from the edge on one action.

I have no issue with forcing the slow heavy walkers to use two actions to fully move on from an edge in a single turn (though, as noted, the answer didn't actually address that question either).

I do have to wonder, especially in light of the lack of completeness for other issues, whether a non-edge deployment or Scout Vehicle were actually considered in the answer.






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