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[Lurker Question] Sledgehammer


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#1 Leon

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 05:42 PM

Hi all,

  how is Sledgehammer supposed to work? I have many doubts about it:

1) The +1 to Fight checks is active even if you are not equipping it, just as the Lantern, right? So, even if you are not using it in combat because you equip other weapons you get +1 die?

2) If you are actually using it in combat, it adds +3 "combat" dice +1 "fight" die = +4 dice?

3) Are you supposed to equip it in combat in order to reduce monster thoughness?

I would like to answer:

1) No

2) +3

3) No

otherwise it seems overpowered and antithematic (specially in (1) and (3): how do you wield the hammer while firing a Tommy Gun?) but wording suggest me the opposite.

Thanks in advance.



#2 Veet

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 06:39 PM

1) Considering that you don't really equip weapons outside of combat I would think that you get the +1 to fight just for having the hammer, I mean you can put down your tommy gun and pick up a sledge hammer to bust open a door.

2) I initially thought +3 not even considering the possibility of the bonuses being stackable. I personally would rule +3 but could be wrong here.

3) Do you have to have a shotgun equipped to get double successes on 6? I would think it's the same thing.



#3 Tibs

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 06:44 PM

Written in the same style as Makeup Kit and Telescope, I would consider it:

+1 to Fight checks (but not Combat checks)
+3 to Combat checks (2-handed)



#4 jgt7771

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 07:26 AM

That would be a pretty big typo, Tibs.  I personally think it's +1 to Fight Checks, +4 to Combat Checks.  The idea being it's an effective weapon, but it's still a little help when closing a Lurkified Gate (on which the Lurker expansion seems to be focused).


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#5 jgt7771

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 09:26 AM

jgt7771 said:

That would be a pretty big typo, Tibs.  I personally think it's +1 to Fight Checks, +4 to Combat Checks.  The idea being it's an effective weapon, but it's still a little help when closing a Lurkified Gate (on which the Lurker expansion seems to be focused).

Oh BLEH.  I just floated a pic of the card past one of my cultists (Pizza), as well as two "normal" people who don't know the first thing about Arkham Horror (just had to explain "Fight", "Combat", and "Check"), and NONE of them agreed with me.  Thus, I can only deduce that I am WRONG.

So I take it back, Tibs, and I'll be playing it as you suggest.


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#6 Tibs

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 10:03 AM

Well don't take your non-Arkham friends too seriously in the matter. Even after explaining the relationship between Combat and Fight, they still might not quite "get" it like we do.

They might be seeing "+1 apple, +3 oranges" when in fact it could very well be, "+1 fruit, +3 oranges."

Although further analyzing the card:

 

Bonus: +3 to Combat checks and +1 to Fight checks.

Reduce the toughness of monsters you fight by 1 to a minimum of 1 (this does not affect their value as trophies).

Hands: 2

Price: $6

 

Just the fact that Combat is listed before Fight implies (to me at least) that the Fight bonus isn't applied during combat. And, the fact that it reduces a monster's toughness on top of all of that? For only $6 I'd say that the Fight bonus shouldn't count.



#7 Leon

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 04:23 AM

After re-reading Telescope and Shotgun wordings, this is how Sledgehammer should be written in my opinion:

Physical Weapon


+ 3 to Combat checks


+ 1 to Fight checks (but not to Combat checks)

 

Any phase: When using Sledgehammer in combat, reduce the toughness of monsters you fight by 1 to a minimum of 1.



#8 jgt7771

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 05:23 AM

Oh hey...are we to assume that we can use the toughness-reducing clause against Physically Immune monsters?  And Lloigor?  Just like the Shotgun?  'Cuz this trend is getting sillier every time it comes up.  At least the Sledgehammer is less effective (than the Shotgun) against the noncorporeal.


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#9 Leon

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 08:12 AM

Probably it is time to reformulate Physical/Magical/Weapon Immunity as "Weapons/Spells of matching type cannot be equipped when figthing immune monsters/AO", though this will prevent us from using Bind Monster against Colour...



#10 Dam

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 08:22 AM

How about "weapons/spells granting combat check bonuses can't be used against monsters with immunity X". Any items that would get left out? At least Bind Monster would be in, since it doesn't grant anything to combat checks.


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#11 avec

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 05:25 PM

 A "+1 to Fight" isn't the same as a "+1 to Fight checks."  An investigator's Fight *score* is applied to Fight checks and to Combat checks.  But how could a Fight *check* be applied to a Combat check?  It doesn't make any sense.  Ergo, the Combat bonus is +3.



#12 MadFuhrer

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 05:28 PM

sorry to necro this thread, but I was wondering with how it was worded, does the sledgehammer reduction of toughness apply even if you aren't using it?  

 

also, how does sledgehammer apply when fighting the ancient one?



#13 Julia

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 05:45 PM

In final battle, no toughness reduction since an AO doesn't have any toughness. But you can get the +1 Fight or the +3 Combat, as you wish.

 

As for the toughness reduction... even if technically you should be allowed to have that always active (e.g: the Bullwhip grants you to reroll one die even if you're not using it), most of us houseruled that you have to wield it to have the toughness of a monster being actually reduced (otherwise it's thematically odd: "hey, you! Look at the hammer in my backpac! You're more fragile now, right?")


Edited by Julia, 13 July 2014 - 02:38 AM.

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#14 The Professor

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 08:06 PM

Julia,

+3 Combat, right? And I love the idea of it being activated in the backpack...best backpack ever!

Cheers,
Joe

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#15 Julia

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 02:38 AM

Good catch, Joe, thanks :)


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#16 The Professor

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 05:15 AM

Julia,

Always, my friend.

Ciao,
Joe

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#17 klaymen_sk

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 08:07 AM

(otherwise it's thematically odd: "hey, you! Look at the hammer in my backpac! You're more fragile now, right?")

 

I'm not sure if appeal to theme is justified here. I see it more like a compromise between the gameplay and theme. Just like for example the skill sliders. Only speed/sneak makes sense, fight/will and lore/luck look like being pulled out of someone's behind for the sake of gameplay, otherwise they're totally illogical.


Edited by klaymen_sk, 13 July 2014 - 08:07 AM.

"To each of us falls a task. And all the Emperor requires of us Guardsmen is that we stand in line, and we die fighting. It is what we do best: we die standing."

-General Sturnn, Cadian 412th regiment


#18 Lee418

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 08:09 AM

Hmmm.... according to the FAQ the +3 Combat modifier is for Combat checks. Obviously! :huh:

 

But the +1 Fight modifier is for all Fight chacks that are not Combat checks.

 

As far as I'm concerned if you want the +3 available in a combat situation you need to have that weapon equiped. But I'm not so sure about the +1 Fight check modifier outside of combat. 



#19 Julia

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:24 PM

Lee, the point about the FAQ is that you don't get a total of +4 when using the Sledgehammer in combat. The +1 Fight could come in handy for other reasons (smashing gates more effectively, for instance, or passing Fight checks due to encounters)

 

Klaymen: good point about the theme and gameplay compromises. Still, I'd not allow any of my players to have a toughness reduction due to a non-equipped Sledgehammer. It's too a strong bonus that could unbalance strongly the game (a -1 toughness is equal, statistically, to 3 dice bonus)


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#20 The Professor

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 08:42 PM

Klaymen,

 

      I agree wholeheartedly with Julia...if you don't have the Sledgehammer in your hands, you can't possibly influence the toughness of an encountered monster. :lol:

 

Ciao,

Joe


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