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Hardest Ancient One in final battle?


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#1 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 04:31 AM

I think Zhar is. Am I horribly wrong?



#2 Avi_dreader

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 04:43 AM

kroen said:

 

I think Zhar is. Am I horribly wrong?

 

 

Azathoth.

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Zhar is a pretty tough bastard...  Quachil has double immunities though, and starts killing people on the first turn.  Arguably Tsathoggua's worse...  Since what are the odds you have any investigators with more than two gate trophies?  Meaning you have two turns to try to kill a -6 monster with no clue tokens and 13 doom tokens, who will probably kill off at least half your team by his second attack.



#3 Tibs

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 06:05 AM

I'd be inclined to say Quachil is the worst, but the stats do still say Tsathoggua. To think that Tsathoggua has far more logged entries, and is much more likely to include final combats that don't use Epic Battle than Quachil, and STILL to have a higher final battle loss, is really saying something.

Honestly, I tremble at the thought of fighting both. At least with Zhar I came close once. Being equipped with a good variety of weapons sure helps.

But there's no denying the reason that Zhar is in 2nd place for overall difficulty and was #1 for the longest time: he's tough to battle, but also has a short doom track AND a special ability that can accelerate it. Yikes!



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Posted 29 April 2010 - 06:48 AM

I hate it that both Rhan and Zhar, an 11 doomer AOs, have abilities that accelerate their awakening. They should have at least be 12, although if I'd designed them I'd put them on 13 just to be on the safe side. 11 is insane.



#5 Solan

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:39 AM

kroen said:

I hate it that both Rhan and Zhar, an 11 doomer AOs, have abilities that accelerate their awakening. They should have at least be 12, although if I'd designed them I'd put them on 13 just to be on the safe side. 11 is insane.

I wouldn't say insane; their short doom track simply makes those two AO's among the most challenging to face, and I like that.  To me Arkham is all about the challenge; I hate it when sealing the AO away is too easy, but I also hate the thought of making sealing the AO away impossible (such as by using the Black Goat of the Woods).  Win or lose, a reasonably challenging game is always the most enjoyable for me.  

 

 



#6 jgt7771

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:36 AM

I'm gonna say Quachil, because he defies preparation.  You can load up all game, intentionally or otherwise, but once he wakes up...FOOSH.  Your items won't work.  Your Allies have vanished.  Your trophies mean nothing.  The only things you got left to boost your rolls at all are your Skills and your Clues, and even those won't save you from an attack that has absolutely NO DEFENSE.  Zhar is BAD, but at least he allows you some access to Fight Check boosts, and gives each Investigator TWO rounds to die.

Before Innsmouth and Kingsport, I would completely agree that Tsathoggua was the worst in Final Battle.  Without Clues...without trophies...without DICE...Tsathoggua basically takes away an Investigator's ability to hurt him.  And you will only last as long as your Gate Trophies.  (At least Yog lets you roll for them.)  I would wager that's why Tsathoggua has a huge Doom Track, and his Sinister Plots involve a lot of blinking.  I think Tsathoggua is statistically the highest is because a lot of players (possibly following our grognardian forum advice) have Dunwich, but not Innsmouth or Kingsport.  Heck, the Stats page predates those latter expansions as well, so Tsathoggua has got a couple years on Q and Z.

Honorable mentions:

Atlach-Nacha - Without Ally preparation, Atlach's attack is just as deadly as Quachil's, and his modifiers are worse than Tsathoggua's.

Chaugnar Faugn - Chaugnar WILL last to Round Four, forcing every Investigator to have planned to last just as long or die.  Physical Immunity (statistically) tends to let him last even longer, increasing Investigators' odds of failure.

Cthugha - Load up, because everything you got will only work ONCE.  You better hope you roll lousy numbers on that random attack.

Yibb-Tstll - Like Hastur, Yibb presents the potential of a glass jaw if circumstances allow it.  If not, Yibb could easily be WORSE than Zhar.  (A huge modifier without immunities is about the same as a small modifier with them.  And Zhar doesn't limit your Clues.)


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#7 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:48 AM

You have a point about Yibb-Tstll: I never thought of it before but he's exactly like zhar in the amount of successes needed to kill him in final battle.



#8 amikezor

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:22 PM

Solan said:

but I also hate the thought of making sealing the AO away impossible (such as by using the Black Goat of the Woods). 

That is unfair. You can win by sealing with the official goat (at least if you do not add all extra boards), though it is usually a tough game :-).


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#9 Dam

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:33 PM

amikezor said:

Solan said:

 

but I also hate the thought of making sealing the AO away impossible (such as by using the Black Goat of the Woods). 

 

 

That is unfair. You can win by sealing with the official goat (at least if you do not add all extra boards), though it is usually a tough game :-).

Yep. RAW BGotW Herald puts the difficulty to where it was supposed to be from the very beginning . None of this "monster surge, free turn" crap . Although I'd disagree on the extra boards stuff. Having them, at least for me reduces monster surges, though the flipside is doomers come from gate openings (as opposed to surges).


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#10 amikezor

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 01:54 PM

Dam said:

Yep. RAW BGotW Herald puts the difficulty to where it was supposed to be from the very beginning . None of this "monster surge, free turn" crap . Although I'd disagree on the extra boards stuff. Having them, at least for me reduces monster surges, though the flipside is doomers come from gate openings (as opposed to surges).

Agree. What I am saying is if you do not have all extra boards you can benefit from the sealing to gain few extra turns. Anyway, I like the official goat (unlike most players ;o), but the extra monsters make it tough.


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#11 oldthrashbarg

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 07:23 PM

amikezor said:

Dam said:

 

Yep. RAW BGotW Herald puts the difficulty to where it was supposed to be from the very beginning . None of this "monster surge, free turn" crap . Although I'd disagree on the extra boards stuff. Having them, at least for me reduces monster surges, though the flipside is doomers come from gate openings (as opposed to surges).

 

Agree. What I am saying is if you do not have all extra boards you can benefit from the sealing to gain few extra turns. Anyway, I like the official goat (unlike most players ;o), but the extra monsters make it tough.

 

The extra monsters do make make the BGotW herald tough, but I have found that there are short-term compensations in that only a few of the hexagon-monsters are among the most dangerous critters, whereas they still count towards the monster limit. Of course, their presence mean that monsters will build up in the outskirts, but I have found that in the short term it can be a slight advantage. Any thoughts?



#12 Dam

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 08:12 PM

oldthrashbarg said:

The extra monsters do make make the BGotW herald tough, but I have found that there are short-term compensations in that only a few of the hexagon-monsters are among the most dangerous critters, whereas they still count towards the monster limit. Of course, their presence mean that monsters will build up in the outskirts, but I have found that in the short term it can be a slight advantage. Any thoughts?

Moving Dark Youngs are a *****. Also, once you zap off the chaff (Child of the Goat, Goat Spawn), you either have to cash them in or be left with the nastier ones. Rhan-Tegoth loves the hexagon bag, now he has two bags from which to draw Cultists from . Also, gates in IH, esp. D-Reef and Yha popping two monsters per means the DOR track goes up that much faster.


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