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Sisters of Silence


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#21 Darkshroud

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 09:46 AM

Logan Ambrose said:

Atheosis said:

 

We already have one useless thread about female Space Marines, could we not start another?  This thread was actually about the Sisters of Silence remember?

 

 

Good point. On the topic at hand, when DW drops i hope someone comes up with house rules for the sisters of silence. I think they will be a fun addition.

 

Someone already made a Sisters of Silence career for DH ages ago :) Dunno if it's still floating about but it was done on Dark Reign by a guy called the Patriot. Was pretty good but is a bit out of date now as it had an Untouchable ranking sytem like buying new psy ratings, and of course there has since been an actual Untouchable starting package made by FFG.



#22 MILLANDSON

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 01:27 PM

It's one of the few bits of work that the Patriot didn't use copyrighted images and writing in (he extensively copy/pasted GW owned articles into other pieces of his work) so it wasn't removed in the purge of his work when GW served Dark Reign with a C&D order which covered a lot of Patriot's other work. However, as stated, because of the rules released by FFG about Untouchables, etc, they will probably need further work on the part of the GM to use them in a way compatible with the current rules.


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#23 Alox

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 09:42 PM

I found the Sisters of Silence document on the Dark Reign website, and I think its a great piece of work. The individual GM must of course make a decision on what rules of untouchables to use.

I guess that getting rules for Sisters of Silence is not very likely in a rule book on Space Marines, but one could always hope that someone will make an "Ascension" extension of the Sisters of Silence document so you could have a Sister working alongside Space Marines when needed. After all, it seems to be the case that the Astartes works together with Sisters of Silence every now and then. Personally I like the concept of the sisters and would love to see good ideas on how to "Ascend" a sister of silence to the level of play required to play along side a Space Marine. :)

One poster above said that the organization was destroyed in the Horus Heresy, is that true?

 



#24 Kanluwen

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 01:06 AM

Well, if you like the concept of the Sisters of Silence this is an important bit right here:

 

They no longer really exist. They're seemingly a branch of the Sisters of Battle and not really mentioned now.



#25 theboyidiot

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 11:41 PM

For a bit more information on The Sisters of Silence, try Lexicanum: http://wh40k.lexican...ters_of_silence

From the information contained in this entry, it is unclear if the Sisters still exist in the 41st millennium.  I think it would be reasonable to assume that at the very least they may still operate in the Black Ships. 

If this is the case, the Sisters may form a (very) small part of the crusade in the Jericho Reach - I can see the crusade incorporating some form of psyker containment or Black Fleet capacity. 

From this assumption, it shouldn't be too hard to come up with a scenario that brings the Deathwatch into contact with the Sisters.



#26 UncleArkie

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 01:06 AM

Looking at it not as a female character, but more as a novelty character, we are after all dealing with a person who communicates only in a secret sign language only known to her peers, when ever she interact with non sisters she uses a novice that still has not taken the vow , but has learned the code. While it might be fun or a session or two they would make very bad long term characters with little or no interaction with npcs or the other players beyond talking in "boltgun" capitals and then standing around looking brooding.



#27 Cynical Cat

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 04:11 PM

There's absolutely no evidence of the Sisters of Silence existing at any other time period than the Heresy.  At a guess they took massive casualties and were effectively disbanded during the later parts of the Heresy and the survivors were absorbed into the Officio Assassinorum and what would become the Inquisition. 

What isn't speculation in my part is that they are no match for Space Marines.  A bunch of them are assigned to assist Russ in bringing down Magnus in Thousand Sons and they are quickly and easily killed by Thousand Sons marines when they realize that the Sisters are the ones screwing up their sorcery. 



#28 Alox

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 12:30 AM

UncleArkie said:

While it might be fun or a session or two they would make very bad long term characters with little or no interaction with npcs or the other players beyond talking in "boltgun" capitals and then standing around looking brooding.

I agree that it does not look like these Sisters are around much lately, so I guess I need to be a little creative if I insist on having them around in my campaign. :)

On another note, the silence issue is not really a problem, since Sisters of Silence are known to understand Astartes battle signs, and if the SM players learn the Sisters sign language, you can just assume that they understand each other without too much effort, i.e. they can talk freely without having to role play it. NPC interaction could be a challenge now and then, but I kinda see it as a strength that can be roleplayed on. :)

 



#29 UncleArkie

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 05:27 AM

 Sure its a roleplaying opportunity to play on once in a while, but its not too much fun in the long run. As for the sisters themselves they are still around as far as I can see, responsible for the black ships, now the only example I can come up with right off my toes is that one of the side effects of being sanctionite in the DH book is being afraid of bald women.



#30 MILLANDSON

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 08:26 AM

UncleArkie said:

now the only example I can come up with right off my toes is that one of the side effects of being sanctionite in the DH book is being afraid of bald women.

That's a funny jab at Dune, just to point out, because all Bene Gesserits (women with various "psychic" powers) in that setting are bald women, and use techniques such as nerve induction (they use it in the Dune movie on Paul Atrades) in their training of those with potential powers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Gesserit

So sorry, but that bit has nothing to do with the Sisters of Silence.


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#31 Graver

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 10:05 AM

Atheosis said:

I've long assumed that the Sisters of Silence were absorbed into the Inquisition when it was founded.  I mean they had black ships and were responsible for the regulation of psykers just like the Inquisition.

 

Just a small nit-pick here: according to the most recent DH books, it is the Adaptus Astratelepathica that are responsible for running the Black Ships, anticipating, and collecting the Psyker Tithe. The Inquisition isn't responsible for any part of the Imperium or how it is run. Ideally, the Imperium is supposed to run without the intervention of the Inquisition, but it is far from an ideal world. They are the trouble shooters and step in when things fail. Saddling them with one of the greatest responsibilities in the Imperium would tie them down and keep them from being the roving trouble-shooters they are supposed to be. So, the Adaptus Astratelepathica handles the gathering and sanctioning of psykers but Inquisitors do like to hitch rides on the Black Ships to monitor psyker populations, find anomalies in psyker tithes, hunt rogue psykers running from the ship when it arrives, conduct secret blasphemous experiments on the spykers taken aboard, etc, but they're not in charge of the show... though like anything, they could take over the show if they wanted to.

Of course, none of that has any bearing on whether the Sisters were absorbed into the fledgling Inquisition or not, which seems like a logical thing to have happened. So, sorry for being a touch off topic.

 



#32 Atheosis

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 05:05 PM

Graver said:

Atheosis said:

 

I've long assumed that the Sisters of Silence were absorbed into the Inquisition when it was founded.  I mean they had black ships and were responsible for the regulation of psykers just like the Inquisition.

 

 

 

Just a small nit-pick here: according to the most recent DH books, it is the Adaptus Astratelepathica that are responsible for running the Black Ships, anticipating, and collecting the Psyker Tithe. The Inquisition isn't responsible for any part of the Imperium or how it is run. Ideally, the Imperium is supposed to run without the intervention of the Inquisition, but it is far from an ideal world. They are the trouble shooters and step in when things fail. Saddling them with one of the greatest responsibilities in the Imperium would tie them down and keep them from being the roving trouble-shooters they are supposed to be. So, the Adaptus Astratelepathica handles the gathering and sanctioning of psykers but Inquisitors do like to hitch rides on the Black Ships to monitor psyker populations, find anomalies in psyker tithes, hunt rogue psykers running from the ship when it arrives, conduct secret blasphemous experiments on the spykers taken aboard, etc, but they're not in charge of the show... though like anything, they could take over the show if they wanted to.

Of course, none of that has any bearing on whether the Sisters were absorbed into the fledgling Inquisition or not, which seems like a logical thing to have happened. So, sorry for being a touch off topic.

 

There are two types of Black Ships: Inquisitorial and those of Adeptus Astra Telepathica.  Seeing as the Adeptus Astra Telepathica are an organization responsible for regulation and training of Imperial psykers, and are therefore likely all psykers themselves, I just didn't think the connection made as much sense seeing as the Sisters of Silence were all blanks.  Therefore I didn't mention them.



#33 Cynical Cat

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:40 AM

There is not a single reference to anything resembling the Sisters of Silence involved with the Adeptus Astrotelepathicus  or the psyker tithe.  Zero.  And frankly, there shouldn't be.  Untouchables make psykers look common.  They're too valuable to waste babysitting psykers that can be handled by more conventional means.  The Culluxes Shrine and the Inquisition, organizations that didn't come into their own until after the Heresy, both have far more urgent needs for Untouchables and even more clout than the Adepta Astrotelepathicus.



#34 theboyidiot

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 02:46 PM

The entry on the Sisters of Silence in Lexicanum begins by stating:

"The Sisters of Silence, also known as the Silent Sisterhood, were the militant arm of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica during the Great Crusade, and were internally referred to as the organization's Departmento Investigates."

Although there is no current canonical information which establishes the status of this group in the 41st millennium, there is similarly no information confirming that they have ceased to exist, or have been absorbed into other organisations.

In the absence of clearer canonical information, I think it is up to individual gaming groups to determine if, and how, they apply the Sisters to their campaigns.  I agree that roleplaying a Sister of Silence would present some serious challenges on a session to session basis, but this kind of "disability" does present opportunities for the dedicated roleplayer (although their group may have other feelings...)



#35 Cynical Cat

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 06:54 AM

Here's the thing with the lack of information:  the burden of proof is on the side asserting that something exists.  My claims about invisible flying elephants existing slighty out of phase with our material universe do not exist on equal footing with the contrary argument that there are no such thing.  By saying such elephants exist I making a positive claim and must support it.  We do know: 

 

1) that Untouchables are very, very rare

2) The Inquisition and the Officio Assassinorum both use them and both organizations didn't exist in their current, Untouchable using forms during the Heresy era.

3) There are no post Heresy references to the Sisters.

Now a GM can do whatever the hell he wants.  You can run a 40K game where the Tau rule half the galaxy, there are female space marines, and the Emperor has walked off the Golden Throne if you want to.  There's nothing wrong with running a game where the Sisters of Silence still exist and serve the Astra Telepathicus or are a secret Inquisition order. 



#36 theboyidiot

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 09:25 AM

I am very interested in these out-of-phase-flying-elephants of which you speak, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

An interesting thing this burden of proof. 

Rather than make assertions that the Sisters of Silence no longer exist because there is no information describing their role in the 41st millennium, we might consider the problem thus:

1) The Sisters of Silence pre-date the Horus Heresy, and were active during the Heresy as the militant arm of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica.

2) Development and innovation within the Imperium virtually ceased with the Emperor's ascension to the Golden Throne.

3) In the absence of information confirming the demise or reassignment of the Sisters of Silence, one may assume that their organisation retains its original function and purpose.

I agree that untouchables are rare, but so are powerful, stable psykers, and the Inquisition has it's fair share of these as well.  I also agree that both the Inquisition and the Officio Assassinorum have a desperate need for Untouchables (and Pariahs).  This would not be the first instance of Imperial organizations competing for limited resources.

One thing I cannot do, based on the information currently at hand, is categorically deny that the Sisters of Silence exist as an organisation in the 41st millennium, on the basis that the fluff has not focussed on them post Heresy, or that Untouchables make Psykers look common

I would like to believe that the fate of the Sisters will be revealed in canon at some later point, and that they may well have been dissolved, wiped out or something equally distressing and gratifying.  Until then it's anybody's guess.

 

 



#37 Cynical Cat

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 11:31 AM

Powerful, stable psykers are far more common than Untouchables.  The Officio Assassinorum and the proto-Inquisition are in their infancy during the Heresy, but they will become two of the Imperium's most powerful organizations and both will have demands on the tiny supply of Untouchables. 

The burden of proof is on those making an affirmative statement, that the Sisters of Silence exist in the 41st Millenium, just as the burden of proof is on someone making the statement that Tzeentch will emerge victorious over the Imperium of Man, the Necrons, the Tyranids, and the other Gods of Chaos.  Until there is supporting evidence of some kind, canon does not support their existence.

 

Now is there room for them to be retroactively added to the 41st Millenium in one of GW's infamous retcons?  Of course there is.  Might GW do so?  Only the Flying Spaghetti Monster knows.  Can a GM include them in his campaign?  Sure.  Nothing wrong with that. 

Practically speaking, they really don't serve a roll anymore.  We've seen Black Ship collections in the fiction and background material and there's no sign of the Sisters.  The Imperium can handle their psykers without them.  The increased use of psykers allows the Imperium to fight fire with fire, further diminishing the necessity.  And when you absolutely need an Untouchable and ass kicking?  Well the Inquisition and the Assassins fill that slot better than the Sisters ever could.



#38 Atheosis

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 11:10 PM

Cynical Cat said:

Practically speaking, they really don't serve a roll anymore.  We've seen Black Ship collections in the fiction and background material and there's no sign of the Sisters.  The Imperium can handle their psykers without them.  The increased use of psykers allows the Imperium to fight fire with fire, further diminishing the necessity.  And when you absolutely need an Untouchable and ass kicking?  Well the Inquisition and the Assassins fill that slot better than the Sisters ever could.

The function of a thing is much less important than its coolness factor when it comes to 40k.  And the Sisters of Silence definitely have a fair bit of coolness factor going on.



#39 Dodskrigaren

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 12:18 AM

theboyidiot said:

One thing I cannot do, based on the information currently at hand, is categorically deny that the Sisters of Silence exist as an organisation in the 41st millennium, on the basis that the fluff has not focussed on them post Heresy, or that Untouchables make Psykers look common

 

Actually, its been stated in several pieces of cannon that Untouchables are much, much rarer than Psykers.

 

As for the whole idea of the SoS, I'm of the opinion that they are more than likely around, but much like the Custodes, don't take an overly active role in the actual running of the Imperium.   And my reasoning is this:  Certain groups had far more knowledge than others of the Emperors ideas for the Imperium (the Custodes being the most prominent), and after he put Horus down and was put on the Golden Throne, they didn't really oppose the High Lords, but they didn't support them either (look at poor Vandire.)  Its not to much of a stretch to imagine the SoS doing the same.  But, thats just me.



#40 Cynical Cat

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 05:46 AM

Could the Sisters be introduced based on their (highly debatable) coolness and the desire for GW to sell minatures?  Sure.  When that happens, 41st Millenium Sisters will be canon.  Can a GM have them in his game anyway?  Yep.  I personally don't understand their appeal (40K has legions of cooler badass warrior chicks) but there are perverts out there who like Tau so whatever makes you happy. 






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