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Creating the Toad King!


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#21 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 09:41 AM

Not a big thing, just a fast sketch of an idea that ran over my mind.



#22 JCHendee

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 10:04 AM

Okay, so this post isn't completely on topic, but some of you might find a moment's amusement on these pages...

http://www.totallyto...oadofmonth.html
http://www.flickr.co...ise/2612481110/
http://a0.vox.com/6a...07fe80005-500pi
http://www.flickr.co...onk/2906378664/

And no, I really don't have much useful to add.  I think the King would favor toads, not characters.  So in knowing that other toads hopping about are characters, he's not going to given him them squat. He'd certainly change them back, though, rather than have their despicble antics sully the good "toad" name.  And trying to turn it into another Reaper in any way is losing sight of the concept and where it comes from.... the Toad.... not another excuse for over loaded gains and losses.

I would say any time an adventurer rolls a 1 for movement, it must first roll to move "King Toad" towards itself by the shortest route. If the King's move takes it to or beyond that adventurer, the King stops short on that adventurer. Psychic Combat ensues (the King has a Craft of 7); if the adventurer loses, the adventurer becomes a toad. If it wins... well who knows what happens, since the King is not like the Reaper and shouldn't be invulnerable.  Whatever the outcome, the adventurer then moves its 1 space and finishes its turn.

If the King when moved finishes on another character, that character also must face King Toad.

If an adventurer is a Toad, it rolls for movement anyway though it can only move 1 space.  If it rolls a 1 or a 6, it may move King Toad towards itself by the shortest route.  Should the King land on another adventurer, see above.  Should the King land on or pass over the toaded adventurer, he stops short and that adventurer ceases to be a toad on its next turn.

All of this is much more in theme for the persona.  It's simple, fearful, and funny.  And that's all it really needs.

I might add that in Psychic Combat (the way all magical beings fight in talisman), if the adventurer rolls a natural 1, it loses no matter what.



#23 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 10:26 AM

Realy nice JC

You have brought in some very good and new ideas. I realy like your idea to make it possible to fight the Toad King in combat. I agree with you that he should not be invulnerable like the reaper.

I like that idea when losing to him... BANG - you are toaded. and with a craft of 7 (maybe 8?) he will sure be more fearfull like this.

I like him being simple and the way he moves should be simple so he don't slow the game.

Also very good and funny links. There were also some good inspiration to get there.

Thank you very munch for joining in with this new concept

cheer

 



#24 JCHendee

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 10:36 AM

I also think King Toad should be an Adventure card that is drawn rather than an entity/NPC/Perona-on-the-move like the Reaper.  He should be a surprise appearance, just like being toaded.

If one of him is not enough for the gradual build up we've seen in adventure decks, then perhaps consider the Toad royal "family:" Queen Toada, Prince Toadling, and Princess Toadena.  Each could be the same as the Toad King or slightly different in how it operates.  I could see Prince Toadling being a "Battle" instead of a Psychic Combat... or something. Princess Toadena and Queen Toada might be more benign in some ways.  And possibly when one is defeated, it is removed to the discard pile, though they should all be classed as Strangers and not Enemies. 

But that's off on another tangent.  Obviously they would need character cards, since all that explanation wouldn't easily fit on an Adventure card.



#25 talismanisland

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 11:09 AM

I like the idea of the Toad King, but am a bit sketchy about what his abilities might be as a Character. I shall give it some thought though as there is no real rush!

Just to note that Dark Sword Miniatures already does a pretty cool range of Toad/Frogs. Including a whole Royal Court...

http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/

I do like the idea of a themed set of Toads though... perhaps rather than a set similar to the 2nd Edition Ranger, Wizard etc you could do some themed on the expansions out so far? The Ice Toad from Reaper/Dark Heavens gave me the idea. I saw him at Gen Con last year and he is a cracker!

http://www.reapermini.com/


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Sometimes I even update the Talisman Island Facebook Page!

#26 JCHendee

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 11:40 AM

Nice find on the toad family!



#27 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 08:08 PM

JCHendee said:

 

I also think King Toad should be an Adventure card that is drawn rather than an entity/NPC/Perona-on-the-move like the Reaper.  He should be a surprise appearance, just like being toaded.

If one of him is not enough for the gradual build up we've seen in adventure decks, then perhaps consider the Toad royal "family:" Queen Toada, Prince Toadling, and Princess Toadena.  Each could be the same as the Toad King or slightly different in how it operates.  I could see Prince Toadling being a "Battle" instead of a Psychic Combat... or something. Princess Toadena and Queen Toada might be more benign in some ways.  And possibly when one is defeated, it is removed to the discard pile, though they should all be classed as Strangers and not Enemies. 

But that's off on another tangent.  Obviously they would need character cards, since all that explanation wouldn't easily fit on an Adventure card.

 

 

It would be funny with a Toad royal family ... But I think it could be very cool to have him as an NPC that makes things more toad risky. Maybe if Toad King could walk around as an NPC and the rest of his family could be surprises in the adventure deck ?

Here is a whole new sugestion.

 

Toad King

  • Start location: Cursed Clade.
  • Toad King is drawn by magic. Every time a magic object is drawn or a spell is cast, move Toad King one space toward that character.
  • A character landing on Toad King may chose to fight Toad King in Physic combat - Toad King has craft 7. But if player loses, that character lose a life and is also turned into toad for 3 turns. If player wins, then gain 1 craft and one spell. Toad King is put back to his start location (Cursed Clade).
  • If Toad King lands on a character - that character must roll a dice to see Toad Kings reaction.
  1. "You are in my way and I do not like you" - Turned into toad for 3 turns.
  2. Give Toad King an magic item (discard a magic item) or be toaded for 3 turns.
  3. Toad King drains all your spells - Discard all spells.
  4. Toad king is happy and want to sing a song for you - Miss 1 turn.
  5. Toad King is lost and needs your guidiance - move Toad King 1 space in any direction.
  6. Toad King wants to protect you - No magic can effect you for the next two turns. (except the command spell)

-

cheer



#28 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 08:14 PM

talismanisland said:

 

I like the idea of the Toad King, but am a bit sketchy about what his abilities might be as a Character. I shall give it some thought though as there is no real rush!

Just to note that Dark Sword Miniatures already does a pretty cool range of Toad/Frogs. Including a whole Royal Court...

http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/

I do like the idea of a themed set of Toads though... perhaps rather than a set similar to the 2nd Edition Ranger, Wizard etc you could do some themed on the expansions out so far? The Ice Toad from Reaper/Dark Heavens gave me the idea. I saw him at Gen Con last year and he is a cracker!

http://www.reapermini.com/

 

 

Hi Jon,

Thank you for crossing by this topic I look forward to see if you have any inputs. Nice toad miniatures you found. They would fit very well to the Talisman univers. I still think of sculping one anyway to make it fit the art, but these are very good inspiration - Thank you

And you are rigth, there is no rush.

cheer



#29 JCHendee

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 03:08 AM

Mr. Brogger said:

t would be funny with a Toad royal family ... But I think it could be very cool to have him as an NPC that makes things more toad risky. Maybe if Toad King could walk around as an NPC and the rest of his family could be surprises in the adventure deck ?

 

Sure.  Do with it as you please, most certainly.  My notions are just that, notions and nothing more. However, on a roll of 6, I wouldn't exclude the Command Spell.  There are too many exceptions for that already in the game simply to make it easier for the CoC holder to slaughter everyone.  And that's all about trying to make the endgame shorter.  If a group wants to play that kind of ending, I see (have seen) no reason to make it easier.  There are other ways to make for a fast endgame that don't include godhood for the wielder of the crown.  If the crown were that powerful, whoever got it for the first time would have never left it behind in the first place.  The Toad King offers another slim exception in the game to get an edge on whoever got to the Crown first and possibly make a turnabout. That slim chance of meeting King Toad at the right moment and making the right roll shouldn't be nerfed.



#30 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 03:40 AM

JCHendee said:

Mr. Brogger said:

t would be funny with a Toad royal family ... But I think it could be very cool to have him as an NPC that makes things more toad risky. Maybe if Toad King could walk around as an NPC and the rest of his family could be surprises in the adventure deck ?

 

Sure.  Do with it as you please, most certainly.  My notions are just that, notions and nothing more. However, on a roll of 6, I wouldn't exclude the Command Spell.  There are too many exceptions for that already in the game simply to make it easier for the CoC holder to slaughter everyone.  And that's all about trying to make the endgame shorter.  If a group wants to play that kind of ending, I see (have seen) no reason to make it easier.  There are other ways to make for a fast endgame that don't include godhood for the wielder of the crown.  If the crown were that powerful, whoever got it for the first time would have never left it behind in the first place.  The Toad King offers another slim exception in the game to get an edge on whoever got to the Crown first and possibly make a turnabout. That slim chance of meeting King Toad at the right moment and making the right roll shouldn't be nerfed.

Good point!

Toad King

  • Start location: Cursed Clade.
  • Toad King is drawn by magic. Every time a magic object is drawn or a spell is cast, move Toad King one space toward that character.
  • A character landing on Toad King may chose to fight Toad King in Physic combat - Toad King has craft 7. But if player loses, that character lose a life and is also turned into toad for 3 turns. If player wins, then gain 1 craft and one spell. Toad King is put back to his start location (Cursed Clade).
  •  If Toad King lands on a character - that character must roll a dice to see Toad Kings reaction.

1. "You are in my way and I do not like you" - Turned into toad for 3 turns.
2. Give Toad King an magic item (discard a magic item) or be toaded for 3 turns.
3. Toad King drains all your spells - Discard all spells.
4. Toad king is happy and want to sing a song for you - Miss 1 turn.
5. Toad King is lost and needs your guidiance - move Toad King 1 space in any direction.
6. Toad King wants to protect you - No magic can effect you for the next two turns. (also command spell)
 



#31 metelik

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 08:30 AM

Hmm I like the desription above. The prob would be to put all the stuff on an adventure card. The only way is to make his toadiness a character like the Repaer ;>

With my best wishes

     Tomasz



#32 Velhart

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 11:08 AM

I am not sure about the new rules now..

I do not like the psychic combat ability..

Also, the wordings of the ability's have also changed..



#33 JCHendee

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 03:41 PM

The P.Combat only happens if you land on the King vs. when he lands on you.  You have a chance to kick his butt and send him packing, not to mention you also gain 1 Craft (as if defeating a Craft 7 Enemy) and also a Spell (which you can't get in defeating an Enemy or another adventurer.)  Seems more than fair to me.

Sorry, V. but I can't agree with you on this one.  I detest the Reaper or anything moving around the Land that no one can do anything about. And I like that the King is a REAL npc (so to speak), and the Reaper isn't.  The King has his own agenda and isn't some random cannon players throw at each other in a blink of godhood or a free over-gunned version of a Randomize spell.  The King operates within the game environment better, yet he's still a random one can't be certain of... but unto himself and not as a player's puppet ever.  He's not exactly how I would make him, but I'd play this last re-write for the fun he offers.  I won't ever play the Reaper; and neither will most of my group.

You got something there, Mr. B.  Keep at it.  Maybe there are more tweaks others would like to suggest to widen the King's appeal.



#34 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 08:45 PM

Velhart said:

I am not sure about the new rules now..

I do not like the psychic combat ability..

Also, the wordings of the ability's have also changed..

Hi Velhart,

Do not worry, everything under progress. I do not concern about the wordings so far, more his funktinality. But I will put in your wordings if you have sugestions.

To mention, I do like your sugestions so far, so keep up

 

cheer



#35 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 09:12 PM

I will do my best to satisfy all, so here comes the Toad King once again

Toad King

  • Start location: Cursed Clade.
  • Toad King is drawn by magic. Every time a magic object is drawn or a spell is cast, move Toad King one space toward that character.
  • If Toad King lands on a character - that character must roll a dice to see Toad Kings reaction.
  1. The Toad king is angry : You changed to a Toad for 3 turns.
  2. Give Toad King an magic item (discard a magic item) or be toaded for 3 turns.
  3. Absorb - The Toad King steals your magic energy - Discard all spells your character have.
  4. Toad king is happy and want to sing a song for you - Miss 1 turn.
  5. Toad King is lost and needs your guidiance - move Toad King 1 space in any direction.
  6. Ups! you stepped on Toad King - Remove Toad King from game.

 



#36 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 10:12 PM

Forgot to apply  something - here it is.

 

Toad King

  • Start location: Cursed Clade.
  • Toad King is drawn by magic. Every time a magic object is drawn or a spell is cast, move Toad King one space toward that character.
  • If Toad King lands on a character - that character must roll a dice to see Toad Kings reaction.
  1. The Toad king is angry : You changed to a Toad for 3 turns.
  2. Give Toad King an magic item (discard a magic item) or be toaded for 3 turns.
  3. Absorb - The Toad King steals your magic energy - Discard all spells your character have.
  4. Toad king is happy and want to sing a song for you - Miss 1 turn.
  5. Toad King is lost and needs your guidiance - move Toad King 1 space in any direction.
  6. Ups! you stepped on Toad King - Remove Toad King from game.
  • If Toad King lands on a Toaded character, that character is Toad blessed and gets all fate repleanished. (no need off roling a dice for reaction)

 



#37 JCHendee

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 03:00 AM

My only major concern for him now is that he isn't going to get around much.  Once most magic objects are drawn, there won't be many of those triggers coming up. Yes, as the game progesses, likely more spells will be used.  But how many players are going to use one if he's one space away.  And if they are further away than one space, his one space movement may not see him land on anyone during a game. He'll become just a maintenance step to see and little else.  I don't like the way the Reaper is moved, but maybe the Toad King does need to get around a bit more.



#38 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 04:18 AM

JCHendee said:

My only major concern for him now is that he isn't going to get around much.  Once most magic objects are drawn, there won't be many of those triggers coming up. Yes, as the game progesses, likely more spells will be used.  But how many players are going to use one if he's one space away.  And if they are further away than one space, his one space movement may not see him land on anyone during a game. He'll become just a maintenance step to see and little else.  I don't like the way the Reaper is moved, but maybe the Toad King does need to get around a bit more.

I see him as a big treat being around becouse he can land on you in other players turns as well. Example: You are two spaces from him and another player is maybe 6 spaces from him in same direction - Then that player find an magic object+cast a spell or just cast two spells, then Toad King lands on you. And the chance is bigger with more players in game. I think his activity will vary a lot from game to game, but people will always think twice before nering him.

But you are right that he proabaly wont come munc around like into the dungeon or something. But remember he is a toad.

 

cheer



#39 JCHendee

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 05:15 AM

Very true... if you use a spell while he is near someone else between you and him, there might be some added surprise in him jumping another adventurer.



#40 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 12:15 AM

Inspired from what we got so far, I might soon begin to create the art of him. Need some opinions here.

  1. Should he look serious, happy, funny or something else. What would fit him ?
  2. I think he should be toad sized so he can be crussed under your feet, but maybe some imagine him big as humen or something else ?





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