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#41 The Message

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 02:34 AM

That's a good idea, I think I'll go do just that.



#42 dkw

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 08:57 AM

Black Tendrils sounds a little too powerful.  It would shorten the game to a number of turns equal to the doom track, more often then not.  Maybe weaken it to when a Gate Opens, add 1 to the Terror Track?



#43 The Message

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 03:56 PM

dkw said:

Black Tendrils sounds a little too powerful.  It would shorten the game to a number of turns equal to the doom track, more often then not.  Maybe weaken it to when a Gate Opens, add 1 to the Terror Track?

It's supposed to be a bit much, mostly since it's only of use when Y'Golonac himself is around. In any case, the extra doom tokens wouldn't hit until turn 6, though I agree it definantly makes time seem absent. I should also note here that the expansion this is to be part of has several alternate routes to victory, and actual discourages seal wins, so this also helps maintain the tension there. Taken alone though, this basically amounts to a 'stupid hard mode', at least with one GOO.



#44 dkw

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 06:51 AM

My thought is, if you reduce it to only when a gate opens, then you would add 1 Terror everytime a Mythos Gate opens, as well as all those encounter cards that say "A Gate Appears."  You could easily have a turn with 5 Gates Opening (+5 Terror), or go a few turns with no Gates.

Just my thought anyways.



#45 The Message

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 07:53 AM

dkw said:

My thought is, if you reduce it to only when a gate opens, then you would add 1 Terror everytime a Mythos Gate opens, as well as all those encounter cards that say "A Gate Appears."  You could easily have a turn with 5 Gates Opening (+5 Terror), or go a few turns with no Gates.

Just my thought anyways.

Possibly... for now I'm going to leave it until I can playtest this in its main environment, but feel free to rule it however you wish. It is custom content, afterall.



#46 Avi_dreader

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 09:45 PM

DKW, if you're here, read this post.

I tried the Nyarlathotep herald (finally) and had a very strong win (however, I think some of that was luck) I randomly drew, Kate, Darrell, and Marie. Darrell was useful the entire game, as he always is. The ancient one was Ithaqua who is much easier than I remembered (I haven't played him for such a long time, for some reason I thought he subtracted a movement from all the players). I did the random fight on the first turn and fought the Skinless One, the Bloated Woman, and the Black Man (Yeah, I got lucky). All of the fights turned out to be profitable if only by a clue token with one, one or two with another, and three with Marie (I got kindof lucky with my rolls). I was lucky not to draw the Beast or the God (although I actually did draw his card in another world randomly— he knocked out marie, gave her Memory Loss). ::Shrug:: in addition to that luck, I drew a visions card with Darrell (very helpful, I got eight clues from just three spells with that). And the luckiest part, I think, was blocking three gate openings with Kate that game, One at the graveyard (which would have actually been a gate burst), one at the unvisited island, and one at the witch house. Later In the game I drew an arcane insight, but by that time it was already basically over. I also drew a find gate with my starting equipment (which was well balanced) and was able to get Professor Rice that game. I also got lucky with rift cards and all the rifts were opening in the same two slots (with one exception— but I closed it). I beat Ithaqua with his doom track at six and the terror level at two (only because cards were drawn that raised the terror level). Still, this isn't nearly as skillful as it sounds, because after all, there should've been a minimum of two more doom tokens (had I not been lucky with Kate). Oh, I also drew the General Store encounter that lets you search the deck for items by name for other players if they pay you. I bought Kate and Marie Motorcycles, Kate also got a Zoog, and Marie Speed. So, they were both moving at seven as opposed to Darrell's five ;') how ironic. Anyways, it was pretty easy, although it was a little tense at times (until I drew the Arcane Insight) —I was worried that terror would hit three and wipe out my characters.  It was easy, but I was very lucky in multiple ways.  ::Shrug:: that was actually one of my fastest wins...  I think I'm on a ruthless streak from the last league game (killing Azathoth with three tiny little characters, heh, I've already forgotten who my team was).

Question: does the fighting take place during the first full turn on the game (during your movement phase?) or is it in the early pre-game mythos phase (allowing you to move on your first turn).
 



#47 dkw

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 09:33 AM

Investigators can't trade items before they even get a chance to move can they?

My Name? is supposed to be at the end of the first turn of the game, after the Investigators have had a chance to move about the board, but didn't meet up with other Investigators to share toys.  But, it is resolved during that Mythos Phase, so any Exhausted Items are still Exhausted and any penalties that crop up because of the Mythos Card are already in effect.
In Short, the fight for clues happens during the first Mythos Phase at the end of the first turn.  Also, when the Terror Track reaches 3/6/9, you fight the Masks in the Phase you are currently in.  If that means fighting the Masks in the Mythos/Other World Encounters/or whatever, then that is when you fight them as if it was a normal Combat, Ambushed of course.  You don't wait for the Movement Phase to come around again.

Try a few more games and see if your luck holds.  Try using I Will Help You Just This Once this time, as it sounds like you didn't use it, or even need to use it.
But, as I said before, there is a good chance that most of the abilities on the Herald won't get used often.  Players don't have to fight a Mask for Clues, spend Trophies to remove Monsters, may never fight against an Ancient One, and as your game showed, never reach a Terror of 3 or more.

What I tried to make this Herald do is allow people to use Masks with any Ancient One (a major complaint on the old boards), and make the Terror Track a little more dangerous.

And, for anyone that cares, I did some work on Master Therion.



#48 Avi_dreader

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 08:23 PM

dkw said:

Investigators can't trade items before they even get a chance to move can they?

My Name? is supposed to be at the end of the first turn of the game, after the Investigators have had a chance to move about the board, but didn't meet up with other Investigators to share toys.  But, it is resolved during that Mythos Phase, so any Exhausted Items are still Exhausted and any penalties that crop up because of the Mythos Card are already in effect.
In Short, the fight for clues happens during the first Mythos Phase at the end of the first turn.  Also, when the Terror Track reaches 3/6/9, you fight the Masks in the Phase you are currently in.  If that means fighting the Masks in the Mythos/Other World Encounters/or whatever, then that is when you fight them as if it was a normal Combat, Ambushed of course.  You don't wait for the Movement Phase to come around again.

Try a few more games and see if your luck holds.  Try using I Will Help You Just This Once this time, as it sounds like you didn't use it, or even need to use it.
But, as I said before, there is a good chance that most of the abilities on the Herald won't get used often.  Players don't have to fight a Mask for Clues, spend Trophies to remove Monsters, may never fight against an Ancient One, and as your game showed, never reach a Terror of 3 or more.

What I tried to make this Herald do is allow people to use Masks with any Ancient One (a major complaint on the old boards), and make the Terror Track a little more dangerous.

And, for anyone that cares, I did some work on Master Therion.

 

Hmmm, so players could shop before using the ability  I didn't realize that.  Alright.  When I draw the random masks, I feel like I'm making my investigators play Russian roulette ;') but if they win that first gamble, the game seems to get considerably easier afterwards.



#49 dkw

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 05:50 AM

That is the point.  You take a gamble for gaining an advantage.  If you win, you gain Clues.  If you lose, well you are down and out, plus there is a Mask running around town now.
That ability only slows down the players for a turn.  Normally, everyone gathers up on some street and trades starting equipment on turn 1.  This way, you have to make due with what you have for a little longer, and risk your health, sanity, and starting equipment for a few extra Clues.
Just remember that any Investigator that Trades anything can not fight for Clues.

Think of it like this: Whatever actions you take during your turn (for anyone going for the Clues), you were subtly directed towards a wealth of information about what is happening, but you were being stalked the whole way by a monster sent specificly to force you to pay the price for the knowledge (i.e. the fight that could have you in the Hospital or Asylum).  If you lose, the monster continues to hunt for you, as well as your compatriots.

Keep this in mind.  If you actually get to Terror 9 (unlikely) and you don't have enough Masks to draw, the Ancient One will awaken because of the "you don't have enough monsters" Rule.

Are you keeping the Library Closed as stated under the Flavor text?



#50 dkw

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 09:53 AM

Here is a Herald that will turn everything on its head, but may not be all that dangerous.

Clarification Where Are We?: Above and Below only means how the Other Worlds are lined up along the edge of the board, and is not affected by other gates on the board.



#51 Avi_dreader

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 01:58 PM

::laughter:: that's thematically interesting, but I suspect it would be a pain in the ass to play again.



#52 kilrah

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 08:38 PM

Fun concept, but really more work then gain I think. Have to remember lots of things and will probably make many mistakes in the way.

OTOH the herald is very tame. Basically the net game effect is that you have to spend one clue token upon entering a gate if you hope on not getting lost in time and space.



#53 dkw

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 06:21 AM

This should fix it.  Less to keep track of now, but still feels like a distortion of reality.

Don't you just hate it when you try to do everything while only looking in a mirror?



#54 Avi_dreader

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 10:17 AM

dkw said:

This should fix it.  Less to keep track of now, but still feels like a distortion of reality.

Don't you just hate it when you try to do everything while only looking in a mirror?

Hrm...  For "Where Are We?" consider making the cost two clue tokens, and make it so that one a roll of 1-2 you go down 3-4 you stay where you went and 5-6 you go up (this would encourage gambling, and also make it so it's actually a significant extra cost to prevent— one extra clue token per gate's not that much, especially compared to Hastur).



#55 dkw

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 11:29 AM

Is this what you were thinking of?


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#56 The Message

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 09:36 PM

dkw said:

Is this what you were thinking of?

This looks really cool, especially Everything Is So Different... forcing investigators to follow arrows is just mean, in a good way.



#57 dkw

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 08:29 AM

Thanks.  As long as you have Clues, or are willing to move slower then a snail, you don't have to worry about the Arrows guiding your movement.

This Herald is meant to slow down the Investigators, and drain Clues slowly, as well as turn your Investigator's survivability upside down.  Suddenly, your high Stamina low Sanity Investigators who were afraid of Horror Checks are no longer afraid of the Horror Checks, but are now afraid of Combat Checks, and vice versa.  It also alters who you want casting spells as your high Sanity people aren't as sane as they once were.

Can you survive in the world beyond the Looking Glass?



#58 Avi_dreader

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 07:41 PM

dkw said:

 

Thanks.  As long as you have Clues, or are willing to move slower then a snail, you don't have to worry about the Arrows guiding your movement.

This Herald is meant to slow down the Investigators, and drain Clues slowly, as well as turn your Investigator's survivability upside down.  Suddenly, your high Stamina low Sanity Investigators who were afraid of Horror Checks are no longer afraid of the Horror Checks, but are now afraid of Combat Checks, and vice versa.  It also alters who you want casting spells as your high Sanity people aren't as sane as they once were.

Can you survive in the world beyond the Looking Glass?

 

 

Yeah, when I first saw it I realized it would mess up spellcasting while making fighters more ferocious albeit slightly more fragile.

Still...  It doesn't seem like enough on its own.  You should make a Wonderland themed Ancient One to go with it.  Queen of Hearts?  Jabberwock?



#59 dkw

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 05:52 AM

It has been far too long since I read, "Through the looking glass and what Alice found there," to remember enough to make the Red Queen as an Ancient One.

But, here is the Jabberwock, and you know everyone is afraid of the Jabberwock.  Not easy to make since there is little about it in the poem, and I don't remember Humpty Dumpty's insight into what the Jabberwock really means.  But, it may be a little powerful.



#60 Avi_dreader

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 08:02 AM

dkw said:

It has been far too long since I read, "Through the looking glass and what Alice found there," to remember enough to make the Red Queen as an Ancient One.

But, here is the Jabberwock, and you know everyone is afraid of the Jabberwock.  Not easy to make since there is little about it in the poem, and I don't remember Humpty Dumpty's insight into what the Jabberwock really means.  But, it may be a little powerful.

Whaaat?  There's plenty on the Jabberwock.

"Beware the Jabberwock my son/ The claws that catch/ The Jaws that bite"

"And as in uffish thought he stood, the Jabberwock with eyes of flame came whiffling through the tulgey wood, it burbled as it came"  (I'm sure I've made some spelling errors, but I was just typing from memory.  Why does it fly?  It seems to surprise people though ;') and it sounds fast, I mean, it's got to be to be able to hunt while being so noisy.  It should be red bordered :') (I don't think there are any red bordered physically immune monsters in the game or expansions, are there?).  Heh...  his being red bordered is even creepier with the herald (considering that it is very harmful to investigator movement pattern).

Heh...  If you wanted to integrate the two, you could make the Jabberwock part of the herald (where when the herald is selected, the Jabberwock begins the game in the wood).  Another potential movement pattern (even more threatening) would be green bordered where Jabberwock moves like a fast monster and a stalker.  :') It would make the scenario seem like you are being hunted the whole time (which actually is thematically appropriate considering that this is a Lovecraft game even though these are Carroll characters).






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