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#21 nick012000

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 10:49 PM

Varnias Tybalt said:

 

nick012000 said:

 

Of course, you could use that for a story idea. The Rogue Traders, while exploring the Koronus Expanse, discover a small warp anomaly. On further investigation, they discover that it seemingly doesn't lead anywhere. Then they're hailed by a tiny ship of unknown design.

"This is the USS Enterprise. Unknown vessel, please identify yourselves."

Yes, they've appeared in the Alpha Quadrant; it's where the Segmentum Obscurus is in the Star Trek galaxy.

 

 

 

Here's a pretty acurate description of a Star Trek/Warhammer 40.000 crossover:

 

 

 

Not really. I doubt they'd skip straight to Purging, especially if it's a human that's the Captain. A Rogue Trader certainly wouldn't; he'd realize that he's dealing with heathens who are allied with Xenos and promptly attempt to work out some way to get more Profit out of it, and maybe attempt to conquer them for his own wealth and glory. Even the Inquisition wouldn't skip straight to Purging, though; that's the last step of the process. They'd need to investigate to determine how widespread the rot is first, at the very least.



#22 Argoden

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 05:29 AM

Varnias Tybalt said:

HappyDaze said:

 

 

I strongly doubt that Imperial ships have such levels of centralized controls over the pressure doors.  Like everything else, these likely need to be manually operated throughout the ship.

 

 

If these doors can slam shut automatically in the event of depressureization, then it would be safe to assume that entire sections can be controlled from the bridge.

Also in the part of the rulebook describing crew morale and outbreaks of mutiny, they do mention the threat of "voiding" entire crew sections as a viable tactic to beat down mutiny, this implies that controls for pressure doors and the like aren't necessarily located next to the door in question.

The rules also specifically allow the officers on the bridge to vent burning components into space to extinguish a fire from a critical hit, with predictably negative results on morale.  There certainly seems to be some central control by canon. 



#23 HappyDaze

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 06:15 AM

Varnias Tybalt said:

 

 

If these doors can slam shut automatically in the event of depressureization, then it would be safe to assume that entire sections can be controlled from the bridge.

It would feel more appropriate to Imperial tech if each door held its own pressure sensor and closing mechanism.  if you want to space sections of the ship, you have your Archmilitant lead a team of void suit wearing tough guys down there and manually open the doors as you fight through the mutinous opposition.  IOW, it's essentially a boarding action within your own vessel.  Seems much more appropriate to the setting to me than just solving problems with the push of a button.


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#24 HappyDaze

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 06:18 AM

Argoden said:

Varnias Tybalt said:

 

HappyDaze said:

 

 

I strongly doubt that Imperial ships have such levels of centralized controls over the pressure doors.  Like everything else, these likely need to be manually operated throughout the ship.

 

 

If these doors can slam shut automatically in the event of depressureization, then it would be safe to assume that entire sections can be controlled from the bridge.

Also in the part of the rulebook describing crew morale and outbreaks of mutiny, they do mention the threat of "voiding" entire crew sections as a viable tactic to beat down mutiny, this implies that controls for pressure doors and the like aren't necessarily located next to the door in question.

 

 

The rules also specifically allow the officers on the bridge to vent burning components into space to extinguish a fire from a critical hit, with predictably negative results on morale.  There certainly seems to be some central control by canon. 

Does it specifically say this is done by a button push from the bridge?  Many of the starship actions are merely ordered from the bridge and then direct action is taken from someone more local.  in the case you mention, repair crews seal the area and vent the fire and any unfortunates that were isolated by the fire - the button push isn't the direct cause anymore than someone on the bridge directly controlling a gun battery.


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#25 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 08:43 AM

nick012000 said:

 

Not really. I doubt they'd skip straight to Purging, especially if it's a human that's the Captain. A Rogue Trader certainly wouldn't; he'd realize that he's dealing with heathens who are allied with Xenos and promptly attempt to work out some way to get more Profit out of it, and maybe attempt to conquer them for his own wealth and glory. Even the Inquisition wouldn't skip straight to Purging, though; that's the last step of the process. They'd need to investigate to determine how widespread the rot is first, at the very least.

Uhm, all the Inquisition would need is ask one of the techpriests aboard their vessel about the U.S.S Enterprise outside the window and the Techpriest would easily be able to deduct that whoever is piloting that ship is commiting gross technoheresy. A techpriest would, for instance, see any Tau vessel as unhallowed and an outright heretical insult to the Machine-God (this happened in Sandy Mitchels "Scourge the heretic"). But the Tau are aliens so it is to be expected of them to ride around in technoheretical ships. If humans did the same thing however, any contingent of Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Adepta Sororitas and of course Skitarii of the Adeptus Mechanicus would have all the reason they need to board the heretical vessel and slaughter everyone on board. ESPECIALLY if it were humans piloting the vessel in question.



#26 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 08:47 AM

HappyDaze said:

 

Does it specifically say this is done by a button push from the bridge?  Many of the starship actions are merely ordered from the bridge and then direct action is taken from someone more local.  in the case you mention, repair crews seal the area and vent the fire and any unfortunates that were isolated by the fire - the button push isn't the direct cause anymore than someone on the bridge directly controlling a gun battery.

But seriously, if that's always the case then how would threatening of venting entire compartments into the void even be a viable threat if it means that you'd have to stand next to the door in question to actually do it? I mean, if you were to make such a threat then what's to stop the mutineers from simply putting up guard posts at the key pressure doors and defending their controls, thereby making it pretty much impossible for the captain to actually vent the entire compartment without suffering heavy casualties and effectively making it a suicide mission to even try for whatever shipratings he decides to send to do it?

Clearly, you'd have to have access to some central control that the mutineers can't access to be able to threaten them with something like that.



#27 HappyDaze

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 12:41 PM

Varnias Tybalt said:

HappyDaze said:

 

 

Does it specifically say this is done by a button push from the bridge?  Many of the starship actions are merely ordered from the bridge and then direct action is taken from someone more local.  in the case you mention, repair crews seal the area and vent the fire and any unfortunates that were isolated by the fire - the button push isn't the direct cause anymore than someone on the bridge directly controlling a gun battery.

 

 

But seriously, if that's always the case then how would threatening of venting entire compartments into the void even be a viable threat if it means that you'd have to stand next to the door in question to actually do it? I mean, if you were to make such a threat then what's to stop the mutineers from simply putting up guard posts at the key pressure doors and defending their controls, thereby making it pretty much impossible for the captain to actually vent the entire compartment without suffering heavy casualties and effectively making it a suicide mission to even try for whatever shipratings he decides to send to do it?

Clearly, you'd have to have access to some central control that the mutineers can't access to be able to threaten them with something like that.

Central control isn't necessary.  First step is to control the distribution of small craft, vac suits, and weapons among the crew.  Next, approach from the outside taking advantage of small craft and vac suits - guard posts are useless if you're opening the compartments from the outside (they can't post guards where the guards can't survive).

I like the idea of taking age of sail concepts more than sci-fi.  I'd rather see a prolonged mutiny have a chance of success within the setting.


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#28 nick012000

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 05:10 PM

Varnias Tybalt said:

nick012000 said:

 

 

Not really. I doubt they'd skip straight to Purging, especially if it's a human that's the Captain. A Rogue Trader certainly wouldn't; he'd realize that he's dealing with heathens who are allied with Xenos and promptly attempt to work out some way to get more Profit out of it, and maybe attempt to conquer them for his own wealth and glory. Even the Inquisition wouldn't skip straight to Purging, though; that's the last step of the process. They'd need to investigate to determine how widespread the rot is first, at the very least.

 

 

Uhm, all the Inquisition would need is ask one of the techpriests aboard their vessel about the U.S.S Enterprise outside the window and the Techpriest would easily be able to deduct that whoever is piloting that ship is commiting gross technoheresy. A techpriest would, for instance, see any Tau vessel as unhallowed and an outright heretical insult to the Machine-God (this happened in Sandy Mitchels "Scourge the heretic"). But the Tau are aliens so it is to be expected of them to ride around in technoheretical ships. If humans did the same thing however, any contingent of Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Adepta Sororitas and of course Skitarii of the Adeptus Mechanicus would have all the reason they need to board the heretical vessel and slaughter everyone on board. ESPECIALLY if it were humans piloting the vessel in question.

Maybe so, but that's no reason for them to be hasty. If they kill everyone right then, they'll be risking allowing the rest of the taint to spread unchecked if they purge before determining how deep it is. Otherwise, a heretic somewhere else might get away.



#29 steck

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 08:21 PM

HappyDaze said:

I like the idea of taking age of sail concepts more than sci-fi.  I'd rather see a prolonged mutiny have a chance of success within the setting.

And I cant wait for a mutany because as the GM I plan to spin it off as a story arc that takes at least 10 hours of play time and someone ending up dead (there is a reason my players can each make two chars)

 

It just dosnt seem to me like there would be much central controal in the 40k universe. I could see however that each hatch has many diffrent "buttons." Some of them would probably be located in crawl spaces around the bridge (within a short walk, a right turn, and squeezing your body through holes that are small to a ratling). This just makes sense to me and it seems very 40k-ish that there would be a main purge for each section hidden away somewhere only the captain or a trusted advisor of some kind would know about.

 

 

Back on topic though, if you want some dedicated boarding actions you could always find the general layout of a ship online and then run a couple of games where the PCs are boarding the ship. You could get as complex as you wanted, adding in stuff like the crews of other boarding ships and even incorporating it into the continuing space battle (The deck you are in was suddenly depressurized by a broadside, Jimmy didnt have his helmet on right and now his suit is wearing him.)



#30 Troy812

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 07:41 AM

steck said:

HappyDaze said:

 

....Back on topic though, if you want some dedicated boarding actions you could always find the general layout of a ship online and then run a couple of games where the PCs are boarding the ship....

 

Speaking of that .. where would I find general layout of ships online?



#31 Maxim C. Gatling

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 07:46 AM

Let's put an end to this controversy right now.  In Forsaken Bounty (?)  ...anyway, the Navigator with the brass maggot in his forehead managed to Vacc the entire ship except for a few very lucky survivors.

Back to the topic, how do my players board a vessel and take it over?



#32 Dalnor Surloc

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 08:38 AM

Maxim C. Gatling said:

Let's put an end to this controversy right now.  In Forsaken Bounty (?)  ...anyway, the Navigator with the brass maggot in his forehead managed to Vacc the entire ship except for a few very lucky survivors.

Of course the above example is why players don't want to be able to do such a thing on their ship.  I'm gleefully awaiting my players to state they would have insured they could do that from the bridge.  My personal view is that on many ships there is a lack automation to prevent everything from Xenos viruses, Chaos Admech scrap code, and the like from disabling the ship or taking over.



#33 Etepete

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 09:13 PM

Detailed boarding, of course we need detailed boarding!

 

I suppose it would play out as a series of contests between boarders and defenders (maybe with a few different quality armsmen on each side) - one at the point of boarding (hull breach/docking bay etc) - then for each component, or at least for certain critical components. As in my wild musings on mass combat, some sort of VP (or should it be BP) system might work: different components give different amount of victory points, as does subduing enemy forces. A set number will mean that the invaders have been shown off, or the vessel has changed hands. You most likely dont need to kill of the crew, or occupy the whole ship, you just need to put down active resistance and hold enough strong points.



#34 Maxim C. Gatling

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 09:52 AM

Dalnor Surloc said:

Maxim C. Gatling said:

 

Let's put an end to this controversy right now.  In Forsaken Bounty (?)  ...anyway, the Navigator with the brass maggot in his forehead managed to Vacc the entire ship except for a few very lucky survivors.

 

 

Of course the above example is why players don't want to be able to do such a thing on their ship.  I'm gleefully awaiting my players to state they would have insured they could do that from the bridge.  My personal view is that on many ships there is a lack automation to prevent everything from Xenos viruses, Chaos Admech scrap code, and the like from disabling the ship or taking over.

That is a good point, Dalnor.  It works fine if you're in control of the Bridge, but what if you aren't?  A ST:Voyager situation might arise and I highly doubt our plucky team of PC's has a holographic Medicae aboard to save their bacon...again...and again...



#35 Maxim C. Gatling

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:05 AM

Etepete said:

Detailed boarding, of course we need detailed boarding!

 

I suppose it would play out as a series of contests between boarders and defenders (maybe with a few different quality armsmen on each side) - one at the point of boarding (hull breach/docking bay etc) - then for each component, or at least for certain critical components. As in my wild musings on mass combat, some sort of VP (or should it be BP) system might work: different components give different amount of victory points, as does subduing enemy forces. A set number will mean that the invaders have been shown off, or the vessel has changed hands. You most likely dont need to kill of the crew, or occupy the whole ship, you just need to put down active resistance and hold enough strong points.

I agree.  The RT rules lack too much...uhh...everything. 

And I know what I said about using minis, but even a better abstract Narrative rules set would be good.  One can think of RT as a series of mini-games... Man to Man combat, Ship-to-Ship combat, Mass combat etc.  Needs a distinct Board-The-Enemy-Vessel-Capture-It-and-Tow-It-Home game.

I'm thinking of a rudimentary ship layout...nothing special, but basically a layout of the Compartments.  I could use a stand of Epic minis to represent X amount of crew (or even different types) mainly just to keep track of stuff and bang out some slightly more detailed rules and have a more thought-provoking, player-engaging game playable in oh..20-30 min. that won't choke up the entire game session.

One of my players suggested I bust out the Space Hulk tiles and we ....

...then I stopped him.  I just don't want to spend THAT much time on a Boarding encounter.  However the current method is vastly unsatisfying.



#36 Etepete

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 09:53 PM

Maxim C. Gatling said:

 

 

I agree.  The RT rules lack too much...uhh...everything. 

And I know what I said about using minis, but even a better abstract Narrative rules set would be good.  One can think of RT as a series of mini-games... Man to Man combat, Ship-to-Ship combat, Mass combat etc.  Needs a distinct Board-The-Enemy-Vessel-Capture-It-and-Tow-It-Home game.

I'm thinking of a rudimentary ship layout...nothing special, but basically a layout of the Compartments.  I could use a stand of Epic minis to represent X amount of crew (or even different types) mainly just to keep track of stuff and bang out some slightly more detailed rules and have a more thought-provoking, player-engaging game playable in oh..20-30 min. that won't choke up the entire game session.

One of my players suggested I bust out the Space Hulk tiles and we ....

...then I stopped him.  I just don't want to spend THAT much time on a Boarding encounter.  However the current method is vastly unsatisfying.

 

Obviously, you can go into as much detail as you like: the nice thing is that it is scalable into the franchise games. But personally I prefer running everything in my head and maybe on a notepad. My idea is prob. to let boarding rules run as a version of Mass Combat rules. It's nice if different "sub-games" are just common sense added to basic rules principles.

Then, if you want to go into even greater detail, you break out the minis. You might f.ex. use Space Hulk for taking the bridge, if that is what you like doing. It''s a game, it should play according to fancy :)



#37 spirit of ALBION

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 07:55 AM

Hi very new here I see that like myself some of you would prefer some type of real combat for the ship boarding actions I have been working on that for the past day when I have had time and come up with a few idears on how to run it. If I post it in to the house rules forum I wiuld like zome feed back and constructive criticism would be welcomed...

#38 Senior Cardinal Ignato

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 06:15 PM

Gregorius21778 said:

 

Will RT ships even be capable of fully boarding an enemy ship with tens of thousand of crewmen?

 

 

Why would you want to?

I mean, if your intention is to steal the enemy vessel then it would be more of a matter of killing off the relevant key personel (acting officers and/or enemy Rogue Traders on board) and simply press gang the remaining crew into doing your bidding.

It doesn't really concern most ship ratings anyway whose in control of the ship they're on unless the owner of the vessel has made them fanatically loyal through some method, so as long as you make sure the enemy vessel is crippled enough not to be able to run away or defend itself, taking the enemy vessel over should be an easy matter.

But if your goal is all-out extermination of the crew of the enemy vessel then remember that there are several results on the critical damage table that will bring permanent reduction to a vessel's crew. Just send waves of boarding parties (i.e Hit and Run attacks) until the combined results have lowered the enemy vessels crew number to zero.

So why would you ever want to board an enemy vessel with tens of thousnads of crewmen when it is by far more effective not to kill off all of the enemy crew, and even if you want to do it it is by far more safer to send several waves of Hit and Run boarders instead?

I would have to agree, thought about it and maybe Orks would try for no reason at all, but even they would lose their enthusiasm and most likely oxygen.  And not even the Imperial Navy is dumb enough to stick that many troops on a space oared carrack.  That is why submarines were invented.


Edited by Senior Cardinal Ignato, 24 April 2014 - 06:16 PM.


#39 WilliamAsher

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 10:03 PM

Maybe I missed it, but you do realize that there are rules in the sidebar on page 215 of the main book?  It covers the maneuver to board, the actual boarding combat (in the abstract), and having the crew surrender.  While relatively abstract, I have used them on more than one occasion. If you want to flesh it out I suggest running the Extended Actions.  My players captured Feckwald's ship using stealth to get close and initiate boarding on his ship.  Of course they carry a combined arms regiment, several hundred elite personal guard, and a RT with a 110 Command Skill (including bridge/talent modifiers).  They start with a murder servitor strike to depressurize the warp drive (to reduce the chance someone can detonate it), a Senchenal and Assassin led strike on the enemy bridge, a Magos led attack to secure the Plasma Drive, and have the RT lead the main forces.  Due to some good roleplaying and excellend Command roles they had Feckwald in custody and took the ship in two rounds (an hour).  All of this is RAW, with the exception of making them play out the Hit and Run actions. 

 

Note that the ship is presently being studied due to its Xeno systems before they refit it.  Feckwald himself has been assigned cleaning duties on the ship bridge, with his tongue.  His tongue has been modifed to extrude cleaning fluids as part of his servitorization.  The players took offense at his Xenophilious ways and slave trading.


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#40 RogalDorn01

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 02:33 PM

I was a little confused about this as well since RAW does cover boarding operations.  My usual strategy with our ship is to get in close by Ramming...then board the following turn!  It's a one-two punch that ALMOST always works well


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