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So it's a week later. What do you think about the game now?


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#41 Crazy Aido

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 09:14 AM

DagobahDave said:

You might feel better about this after reading the "What is Roleplaying?" section here:

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp

Especially this part:

"The GM presents the stories and situations, provides the setting and its denizens, and adjudicates the rules. The other players take on the roles of the characters, around which the action primarily revolves. These characters are known as the Player Characters (PCs). They describe their intentions and actions to the GM, who then decides how their actions affect the plot."

I'll go back to lurking now.

If I poke you will you come out and play with me?

 

I dunno, something still seems missing. They're really not bigging up the role of GM. It's an important enough job and I'd like to see it's context within WHFRP expanded on more. I see myself as a storyteller, with a pretty rough plot that the PC's have managed to fall into. 

Improving on what "happens" with each role is a well thought out mechanic, but I still have to with hold judgement on it until I see it in action.

Dreary Angel has a point. Is the game leaving too much to the mechanic and not the players?



#42 Dreary_Angel

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 09:27 AM

Crazy Aido said:

Dreary Angel has a point. Is the game leaving too much to the mechanic and not the players?

Well, I think some of the mechanics are intended more for newcomers in the RPG experience (the first times making a party stick together and get along as they should is a pain where the sun don't shine) but I also hope these things can be decided not to be used in experienced patries...

About the dices, I would say they are interesting, and they can be effectively a good help for both players and the GM to describe what's going on. As a GM if one of my players says they're going to do something very very carefully and they fail I would let them give it a second try, but times has obviously passed... With this system even if an action succede it can take more time, and you can see it just on that one roll, and if it fails no other roll is needed, since (taking again the above example) you already rolled for a carefull approach, but you simply failed...



#43 Delphicfist

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 10:32 AM

Today I watched all the videos on it from the Gencon. There were a few moments where I was thinking wow that's weird...then after more explanation I can see what they were going for and it made sense. I think this looks to be a great system that will be very accessible to new players and/or those of us without much time on our hands. I see many innovative mechanics that I think I like. Some I may ignore from time to time but they're there if I need to use them.

I have WHFRP2 and while it is a good system there were certain mechanics that just drove me nuts. I'm all for the new system.

Anyways, I will state that I do feel for those people that heavily invested in the prior system(I have 100 or so 3.5DND books). However, nothing is stopping you from playing it. Further dead systems are the perfect time to change everything you have a problem with mechanics wise with a given game.

I do think that PR wise FFG sort of messed up as people don't seem too happy. Perhaps releasing a few more books for that line would go a long way in appeasing loyal customers. Or would it be possible to release most or all of the books they had been working on for WHFRP2 for free as PDF's? Possibly unfinished or really damn cheap. Possibly not but I just like throwing ideas out there.

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#44 DagobahDave

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 10:41 AM

"As the Game Master, you will make the lands of the Old World real as you craft the story, the people, creatures, and the mysteries the other players will encounter during their adventures."

That's on the same page I linked to earlier. Make of it what you will.

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#45 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 11:43 AM

Foolishboy said:

Happy Birthday PeaceKeeper

Uhhh...thanks.

Hmmm and god bless us everyone, even if we are on then3E side.



#46 Sir Galrim

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 11:43 AM

I was very sceptical. Now I'm sold! 3rd edition looks great! :D 



#47 Wilfred Owen

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 12:32 PM

lordmalachdrim said:

Just finished watching the videos and all I can say is I saw a lot of things to limit the use of the imagination and things to complicate the rules more.

 

Specialty dice. Oh look, what do those dice mean with that symbol in this situation?

Cards. As you buy expansions you can just shuffle the new cards into the deck (so we're adding more conditions and such with each expansion? Rules Bloat much?)

Career Cards (they match up with your character sheet so you lay everything out infront of you, and you have these talent cards that you place here and here when your using them. How much table space do I need for this?)

Group Character Sheet. So now my troll slayer and his elf can't just decided to finish it when we want, we have to wait for an 'event' to trigger?

  

To be honest, I find these items redundant.  RPGs have worked just as books with players having character sheets, so it appears that 3E is relying on something which is not necessary.  It seems a gimmick.

I don't find the reasoning that in the current age of the MMO and other video games that roleplaying has to evolve.  Dark Heresy just won several awards and is selling well, same for D&D 4E.  If people are going to prefer to load up a game and receive instant gratification having 3E presented this new way is not going to pull them away from PCs or consoles.  Or other boardgames for that matter.

Third, the comment that was made by the developer about bringing the story back to gaming (I'm probably in error here, as I am not sure exactly if that is correct), or the focus back to stories, is odd.  I do not believe that there has ever been an issue with that.

So it's a week later. What do you think about the game now?  My answer is that I did not like the news, then became interested, and now I am not looking forward to 3E again.



#48 1010 Cloud Deck

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 01:24 PM

At a non-gaming get-together last night I whipped out the old laptop and let my friends (players) watch the seminar vids and read the release notes. Other than stating "No, it's not a boardgame" four times, I kept mum, presenting a neutral, smiling attitude.

 

It was 0-7 against.

 

It won't detail their multiple (mild) objections as they were just variations of what has been written in this forum and on StS. The pricetag brought out the most, wtf! reactions.

 

I will say that inwardly I was pleased they agreed with me (without knowing my position) the game would slow down even further using the new (socket/dice) system.

 

It is highly improbably I will be purchasing a (new) copy of this edition.

 

 



#49 RocketPropelledGrenade

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 02:07 PM

I have gone from initially iffy, to excited, and now to a mix of disappointed and outraged. What I was able to stomach watching of the video seminar makes me very, very glad I still have my 2e books. I have no issues with the mechanics--at least, none that I am aware of. I didn't get that far. I heard "We're micro-managing the setting so you have to play a certain way, butchering the whole point of Athel Loren, and pretending Dwarfs only come from one place." Then I turned off the video.


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#50 kristof65

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 03:10 PM

Well, I've had 24 hours or so to consider this. Talked to a friend about it. He was shocked, and unhappy as well.  But his parting comment was like mine - "Oh well, we played 1e for years without support, this won't be any different for 2e."

He also reminded me that we bought an RPG based on dice w/ symbols years ago  (neither of us could remember the name, though) , tried it once, didn't like the stupid dice,  threw it out.  That system couldn't have cost more than $20. After our experience with that, no way either of us are willing to shell out $100 to try out  another one.



#51 Entomophobie

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 08:34 PM

I'm very disappointed overall.

If the game was still running by BI, I don't think they would have close the line at this stage (no point to say: "they have closed it even earlier").  I feel WFRP2 could have been developed a bit more.

Concerning the 3ed, I don't like the heroic turn out the game seem to take.  Is there still going to have places for career such as the Bonepicker and the Dung Collector?  After watching the videos, I doubt this "trashy" aspect will be as present as in WFRP2.

Like with D&D 4th, in this case, I think i'll wait to get WFRP4 or 5 before switching from one system to another.  The industry seem to consider one line obsolete after 5 years or so.  They seem to have no commitment toward a line and the players who have bought it.

The addition of the Wood Elf is great, but it could have been done as well in WFRP2 with a sourcebook dedicated to them.



#52 Ye Ancient One

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 09:27 PM

If there's no Dung Collector, I'll just make one.  The new system appears more granular and narrative oriented than the old one and I think I'll be happy to work with whatever aspects I don't like.



#53 Mungo

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 10:09 PM

During most of the video I was pretty neutral, actually liked the idea of having a "party character", but when he started showing and explaining the dice pool it was "game over". No way that I am going to play with that.

BR Juergen



#54 Steerpike

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 05:40 AM

Having watched the webinars pushed me toward the "No" camp.  Primarily the dice pools that did it.  I'll still wait until it is actually released to make a final decision on it, but based on what I know now it is more likely than not I will not buy the game.  I agree with another post elsewhere in this forum that they should have had different people work on this. 



#55 macd21

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 09:25 AM

If the game was still running by BI, I don't think they would have close the line at this stage (no point to say: "they have closed it even earlier").  I feel WFRP2 could have been developed a bit more.

I think that if BI were still running the show, we would have seen the third edition next year instead of this one. The new edition would not have been anything like 3E though, probably closer to Dark Heresy.

Concerning the 3ed, I don't like the heroic turn out the game seem to take.  Is there still going to have places for career such as the Bonepicker and the Dung Collector?  After watching the videos, I doubt this "trashy" aspect will be as present as in WFRP2.

I think people are making too much of the 'heroic' thing. Jay mentioned several times that there are plenty of characters who have heroism thrust upon them. Basically he was saying that these people are PCs, so weird **** happens to them. This has been the case since v1. In fact that was the entire point of Fate Points - you may be scum, but you are going to survive long enough to have weird **** happen to you. I don't know about the Bonepicker, but the Rat Catcher career will be in the Adventurers Toolkit, so I'm sure there'll be planty of scum-of-the-earth careers.

Like with D&D 4th, in this case, I think i'll wait to get WFRP4 or 5 before switching from one system to another.  The industry seem to consider one line obsolete after 5 years or so.  They seem to have no commitment toward a line and the players who have bought it.

Correct. Once a game is no longer bringing in enough money to justify further investment in it, the company moves on. This typically means a new or revised edition every 4-6 years.



#56 Crazy Aido

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 10:44 AM

macd21 said:

I think people are making too much of the 'heroic' thing. Jay mentioned several times that there are plenty of characters who have heroism thrust upon them. Basically he was saying that these people are PCs, so weird **** happens to them. This has been the case since v1. In fact that was the entire point of Fate Points - you may be scum, but you are going to survive long enough to have weird **** happen to you. I don't know about the Bonepicker, but the Rat Catcher career will be in the Adventurers Toolkit, so I'm sure there'll be planty of scum-of-the-earth careers.

But how do they compare with other characters in the world? In WHFRP you could always expect to meet someone on the street who was better at you than things you assumed you were pretty good at.

 

Think about it, in D&D you can walk into a bar and hand everyone's ass to them. In WHFRP, the barkeep is more advanced than you and can show you by how much the painful way.

 

We are slightly worried that the new characters will stand slightly too high above their fellow man.

 

At least I think we are, right guys????



#57 Steerpike

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 01:17 PM

Crazy Aido said:


We are slightly worried that the new characters will stand slightly too high above their fellow man.

 

At least I think we are, right guys????

 

That's one issue.  Although such a thing can be house-ruled, it is sometimes more difficult to do it when the rest of the game is balanced around the assumption of more powerful characters.  I like the idea that in Warhammer FRPG the characters aren't so much a cut above.  They are rather ordinary but have the opportunity to transform themselves into hero (or to die ignominiously).  It will be interesting to see just how far 'above' ordinary characters are when they first start out in the new edition.  



#58 macd21

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 10:44 PM

I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I don't think PCs will be better than normal people (except possibly for fortune points). I think it's been confirmed that we'll have Rat Catchers, Apprentice Wizards and Coachman careers - hardly the most powerful examples of the warhammer world. Sure, there'll be wardancer and swordmaster careers - just as there were veteran and champion careers for 2E.



#59 Dreary_Angel

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 02:10 AM

As Mr. Little said in at Gen Con, the ratcatcher will be in the Adventurer's Toolkit, together with other 9 careers.

The fact is that we still do not know what the career progression will be... will we have basic careers and advanced careers? will there be multiple "levels" for every career?

It seems that you can jump from one to another, as Mr. Little explained somewhere (can't remember if it was in the gen con videos or where) based on you present career's "keywords" but it reamains to be seen how this will be handled...

Also it seems characteristic will go from the 100 basis to 10 basis, in relation to the dice system...

I'm still very curious about this game, but some things sound a little strange to me...

 

As a lot of ppl said... Wait and see! ;)



#60 Knight Panther

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 02:46 AM

Dreary_Angel said:

Wait and see!

That's the point!

First I was shocked (What have they (FFG) done to my game) and I was disappointed because of the fear, that there won't be any new material on things not covered yet so soon. But after reading the many posts, posting opinions and questions myself and reading the answers I now calm down. And if the game does nothing else but bringing new aspects to my manner of roleplaying.

And I must say, that I'm a lucky one. My GM will definitely be one of the first buying the box when it is out. So I will have a look at it very soon!!






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