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Awesome posting from RPGnet about WFRP3 - don't miss this!


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#101 MILLANDSON

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 11:39 PM

Loswaith said:

 'cool down' in an RPG. (...GM may add one recharge token to an action card...)

It's not the only RPG to have it by far, the concept has been in RPGs for decades, so please don't make it into something bigger than it actually is...


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#102 Ron B. Stard

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 12:03 AM

jadrax said:

Is there a reason people keep double quoting other people?

 

Yes, a sucky forum engine.



#103 Ron B. Stard

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 12:16 AM

DagobahDave said:

Ron B. Stard said:

In my opinion I too have presented valid arguments why this game will 'suck', and nobody has confronted my views on this game either.

 

Are you really going to stand by that statement?

All of your arguments have been discussed. I'm not saying that your opinions are wrong, but they have been addressed and confronted with arguments that are just as valid.

You're making it very difficult to speak directly to you because of your abrasive and dismissal tone.

You know, I've noticed that the trolls from the last few days are gone. They're gone. Apparently the moderators are here and they're doing their job. You've probably got one of your snide posts left before they come down on you. Fair warning.

Because I'll be the one who reports you. I thought you'd have cooled down by now but you're continuing to troll. Play nice or go away.

 

I am sorry Dave, I honestly do not think that I have written offensively (with the exception of the fanboy thing, maybe. And even then some people seemed to be over-sensitive to the issue). What I can recall of the counter arguments in this thread are remarks like "you cannot be serious!", or "You need to take a break" or "relax a little" which do not seem so good counter arguments at all.

I am also sorry, if my writing seems abrasive or dismissive. Again, this is not something I have consciously aimed for. Nor being snide. Flippant perhaps at times? Perhaps it is a language thing, or perhaps people on this forum are more sensitive than on others?  will try to watch my tone in the future, but honestly without any flippancy, I feel I have been a target of many a snide, dismissive and patronising remarks in this thread. It works both ways, I too expect a certain courtesy.

And finally, I do stand behind the above statement, nowhere has anyone been able to convince me that the game will not suck, or that the mechanics are beneficial to good roleplaying. On the contrary, the more information about the game keeps coming in, the more horrible it sounds.



#104 Dreary_Angel

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 12:21 AM

Poe said:

Another interesting post from Erifnogard on rpg.net about the dice how they can tell a story:

 

"I don't remember mentioning before that one of the neat effects of the dice is that because you get different color dice from different sources (blue for native ability, green for conservative stance, white for fortunate circumstance/tactics, etc) you can read your dice results with a bit of flavor text built in. For example, my priest chooses to conservatively heal the trollslayer and is in a nice clean inn with plenty of rest and food for both parties I would have my ability dice, a couple of which are swapped for conservative dice, and several fortune dice representing the favorable circumstances. If I succeed, which dice I succeed on tells me a different story. If I succeed primarily on my conservative dice my cleric can snidely point out how lucky the party is that I insisted on getting the smelly dwarf to the inn so I could properly treat his wounds in a proper setting. If I primarily succeed on fortune, I can loudly sing the praises of the gods for favoring my endeavors so. Could I do these things anyway? Sure. The dice just give me a quick story to work with if I want it."

 

Some other snippets from James Knevitt in the same thread:

"Talents have been made totally awesome. When you pick up an appropriate Talent (for example the Trollslayer has slots for two Tactics talents), you can either use it yourself, or you can add it to the Party card (if its compatible), which means everyone in the party gains the benefit of the talent while they remain with the party. It looks like there's at least three different types of Talents: Focus, Reputation, and Tactics."

"The keywords on the top of the Career card and the top of the Party card work the same way. When determining whether you can advance into a different career, you match up the keywords in the two Careers. The more matching keywords, the easier it is to Advance. It totally eliminates the old "entry/exit" method, and I think this is a more organic, fluid method. Likewise, the keywords on the Party card reflect the kind of party it is, and the kinds of party members you might have, since the Party card is chosen by the group AFTER you create your characters. There were also sly hints that parties may be able to advance in the same way as characters in future expansions, perhaps getting slightly better abilities on the card."

"The only ones compelling a group to use a given Party card are the players themselves; they are the ones who get to choose the Party card, not the GM."

 

Also, it appears that  the V3 timeline has been moved to before the Storm of Chaos happens. Sounds good to me.

 

And finally, a party sheet:

Party Sheet

 

Thumb up on that... this all seems like good news to me... The "white" dice system is just another way to use bonuses, and can help interpretation in new players, experienced ones (as most of us I think) can just take them in consideration as well as not when they have to "act" the outcome of theyr actions...

The Party Card is also something interesting... this can help the party fell more like it really is a party, instead of a bunch of people who go around togather by chance... this as well is more helpfull for newcomers rather than experts, but I think it can add some interesting thing in every "playing level" party...

The token entry scares me a little bit, but actual tokens (i mean physical ones) can also be avoided with a little bit of memory or the help of a piece of paper on GM side ;)



#105 Ron B. Stard

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 01:07 AM

That party card...it's just so wrong on so many different levels, this really takes the biscuit. I feel all my predictions have been confirmed and here's solid proof. I am sure more will come as details of the game leak out. I can't fathom  why some roleplayers are still rooting for this game?

You're not going to play this game, the game will play you.

 



#106 jadrax

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 01:13 AM

Ron B. Stard said:

That party card...it's just so wrong on so many different levels, this really takes the biscuit. I feel all my predictions have been confirmed and here's solid proof. I am sure more will come as details of the game leak out. I can't fathom  why some roleplayers are still rooting for this game?

Bare in mind that the nature of the internet is you get all the gonzo/weird stuff first. Until I have tried it there is no way of knowing how such a thing will work in play or even if its mandatory or optional by design.



#107 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 01:24 AM

Ron B. Stard said:

 I can't fathom  why some roleplayers are still rooting for this game?

Because as a roleplayer I know how to put my priorities in ROLEPLAYING and not in the administrative tools for roleplaying. 'Nuff said...



#108 Hellebore

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 01:27 AM

Varnias Tybalt said:

Ron B. Stard said:

 

 I can't fathom  why some roleplayers are still rooting for this game?

 

 

Because as a roleplayer I know how to put my priorities in ROLEPLAYING and not in the administrative tools for roleplaying. 'Nuff said...

 

Ah, so you won't be needing WFRP3 either?

 

Hellebore



#109 macd21

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 01:36 AM

Ron B. Stard said:

That party card...it's just so wrong on so many different levels, this really takes the biscuit. I feel all my predictions have been confirmed and here's solid proof. I am sure more will come as details of the game leak out. I can't fathom  why some roleplayers are still rooting for this game?

Instead of just ranting, could you actually tell us what about the party card you dislike? From what I can tell, it is a way of representing group resources and the level of party cohesion. The party has a pool of fortune points (the group will have to decide who gets to use them and when), a tension meter that the GM adds to based on roleplaying and a section for putting special 'group' abilities that the characters have picked up (for example, tactics are probably combat tactics that they've trained in). The key words at the top (mercenary, infamous) are (I believe) related to changing careers - if you are swords for hire it is easier for you to change to mercenary or infamous careers.

Pretty much any of these mechanics are ones that I'd consider adding to WFRP 2e. Party fortune points - interesting. Group tactics - very interesting. Allowing players to change into careers that reflect the type of advenuring they are doing - just makes sense. And assigning penalties based on stress within the group - nice roleplaying tool.



#110 Ron B. Stard

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 01:52 AM

macd21 said:

Ron B. Stard said:

 

That party card...it's just so wrong on so many different levels, this really takes the biscuit. I feel all my predictions have been confirmed and here's solid proof. I am sure more will come as details of the game leak out. I can't fathom  why some roleplayers are still rooting for this game?

 

Instead of just ranting, could you actually tell us what about the party card you dislike? From what I can tell, it is a way of representing group resources and the level of party cohesion. The party has a pool of fortune points (the group will have to decide who gets to use them and when), a tension meter that the GM adds to based on roleplaying and a section for putting special 'group' abilities that the characters have picked up (for example, tactics are probably combat tactics that they've trained in). The key words at the top (mercenary, infamous) are (I believe) related to changing careers - if you are swords for hire it is easier for you to change to mercenary or infamous careers.

Pretty much any of these mechanics are ones that I'd consider adding to WFRP 2e. Party fortune points - interesting. Group tactics - very interesting. Allowing players to change into careers that reflect the type of advenuring they are doing - just makes sense. And assigning penalties based on stress within the group - nice roleplaying tool.

Will do so in a moment when I have more time, but in the mean time can you clarify exactly where I am 'ranting'? Is it simply because I said something negative about the game, or is the tone of the post somehow off? Because I can't see this ranting at all? I'll get back to you with my thougths on the party card a bit later, ok?

 



#111 Aldred Fellblade

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 02:52 AM

DagobahDave said:

Apparently the moderators are here and they're doing their job. You've probably got one of your snide posts left before they come down on you. Fair warning.

Because I'll be the one who reports you. I thought you'd have cooled down by now but you're continuing to troll. Play nice or go away.

Back to the good old days then. You do know that you're only supposed to play a Witch Hunter in the game don't you? FFG have clearly adopted a marketing strategy that's intended to court controversy so you shouldn't be surprised if people get upset. Besides which there are just as many personal and provocative remarks being made by the cheerleaders for v.3 as by its naysayers. You seem to be over reacting to Ron B.Stard's comments quite drastically, considering that there's been far more outrageous things said on these forums over the past few days, generally with rather less intelligence though. Perhaps that's what's upsetting? If ganging up on someone isn't enough you have to ban them instead?

Ah well, burn the witches!



#112 Gilead te tuin lothain

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 03:09 AM

macd21 said:

Ron B. Stard said:

 

That party card...it's just so wrong on so many different levels, this really takes the biscuit. I feel all my predictions have been confirmed and here's solid proof. I am sure more will come as details of the game leak out. I can't fathom  why some roleplayers are still rooting for this game?

 

Instead of just ranting, could you actually tell us what about the party card you dislike?

 

Is such a short post really counted as ranting?

 

I'm not sure on the mechanics and the card looks strange to me as I've never played anything similar before that involves cards to such a level of depth. 

 



#113 Poe

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 03:21 AM

In the end it seems like the big crux is the bits and cards. For example, if the party card above wasn't an actual card and the rules were just written in an orthodox way in the core rulebook I think the reactions would be much more favourable (shared Fortune pool, advancement tags, party tactics etc). Some people are horrified and think these extra bits will make it play like a board game while others see them as helpful tools to enhance the roleplaying experience. Only time will tell who's right (although I'm betting on the latter ).

 

Ron, I'm also curious to hear what you think is so horribly wrong with the party card. Whenever you get around to it.



#114 macd21

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 04:13 AM

Gilead te tuin lothain said:

macd21 said:

 

Ron B. Stard said:

 

That party card...it's just so wrong on so many different levels, this really takes the biscuit. I feel all my predictions have been confirmed and here's solid proof. I am sure more will come as details of the game leak out. I can't fathom  why some roleplayers are still rooting for this game?

 

Instead of just ranting, could you actually tell us what about the party card you dislike?

 

 

 

Is such a short post really counted as ranting?

 

I'm not sure on the mechanics and the card looks strange to me as I've never played anything similar before that involves cards to such a level of depth. 

 

When his posts are nothing but "this sux" without any commentary on why he believes so... I suppose that would be closer to trolling than ranting. Though taken as a whole...

As for the cards - you could easily use the party mechanics (from what I can tell) without using cards. The cards seem to be for ease of use, in this case, rather than anything else. They are a handy reference. As I said before, the concepts therein would be good additions to 2ed, with or without the cards.



#115 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 07:09 AM

Hellebore said:

Varnias Tybalt said:

 

Ron B. Stard said:

 

 I can't fathom  why some roleplayers are still rooting for this game?

 

 

Because as a roleplayer I know how to put my priorities in ROLEPLAYING and not in the administrative tools for roleplaying. 'Nuff said...

 

 

 

Ah, so you won't be needing WFRP3 either?

 

Hellebore

Nope.

But im willing to give the system a try at least, since it seem to be so different from conventional systems. Which is more than I can say about 2nd or 1st edition because they haven't attracted my interest at all, hence why I don't own them. (im not that big a fan of the Warhammer fantasy world anyway, and because a quick readhtough of their buggy and stifling rules, along with the fact that they are played as conventional RPG's there's not many turn-on's in those editions for me)

But BECAUSE of the 3rd edition's seemingly different approach to it's game administration and mechanics, it looks quite interesting. So while I loathe the effort of having to roleplay in the Warhammer Fantasy setting, I guess I can stand the sacrifice in order to try something new.



#116 sepayne7l

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 08:39 AM

Captin' said:

This is horrible news! What if i have 2 players who wan't to play the same class? Or an entire party! And a bloody deck where i draw cards from? And you say this is NOT a board game? Then it is a card game, for it has cards. Argue that all you want. 

The just borrow the card to look up what you need and then give it back. Really, how far away are you from your fellow players during a game?

 

Don't have to argue about it being a card game. Thanks for pointing out that Monopoly and Clue are some of the most popular card games ever.

 






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