Jump to content



Photo

Awesome posting from RPGnet about WFRP3 - don't miss this!


  • Please log in to reply
115 replies to this topic

#41 Poe

Poe

    Member

  • Members
  • 131 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 01:11 AM


 

What's wrong with all these cards and the dice etc. is that it all leads to less roleplaying, simply because the players will think 'I need this card or that to improve my skill/chance/whatever', or 'I need to roll 5 axes/whatever to beat him' and so on.

 

How is 'I need to roll 5 axes/whatever to beat him' different from 'I need to roll under 37 to beat him' in terms of how much or little it makes you roleplay? And seeing as the cards seems to be comparable to Talents and Skills wouldn't we have the same problem today; players thinking 'I need this Talent/skill to improve my skill/chance/whater' (actually, depending on the player that's a problem that'll never go away no matter the system).

It just seems to me that a lot of people are complaining about having a clearer and more easily understandable User Interface.

 

But I feel this is going to be a losing battle, arguing against the game. It seems this forum will be flooded with perky and positive posts, no doubt paid by FFG. So let the propaganda and brain washing commence. I'd like to say I will never buy and FFG product again, but alas I think I am going to by Rogue Trader. At least that's a proper roleplaing, one hopes.

 

 

 

 

Sigh. Yes, I just got my FFG-check in the mail. I'm really just like you in thinking WHFRP is ruined FOREVER, but my blind thirst for money has made me sink to this new low...

 

Edit: I see that my Forum-Fu is weak and I should have RTFM...



#42 Merroth

Merroth

    Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 01:19 AM

Poe said:

Sigh. Yes, I just got my FFG-check in the mail. I'm really just like you in thinking WHFRP is ruined FOREVER, but my blind thirst for money has made me sink to this new low...

You got yours only now? I already bought with it a second computer to be able to brain wash 2 times faster by typing on 2 machines at once. 



#43 Ron B. Stard

Ron B. Stard

    Member

  • Members
  • 32 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 01:45 AM

Thanks for proving my point. If you're doing this for free, well....



#44 Merroth

Merroth

    Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 01:51 AM

Ron B. Stard said:

Thanks for proving my point. If you're doing this for free, well....

Man you really need to sit back and relax. 



#45 Bludgeon

Bludgeon

    Member

  • Members
  • 134 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 01:54 AM

But I feel this is going to be a losing battle, arguing against the game. It seems this forum will be flooded with perky and positive posts, no doubt paid by FFG.

Funny that you mention it, since it is a common knowledge that v3 bashers are paid by that other company



#46 DagobahDave

DagobahDave

    Laser Brain

  • Members
  • 1,264 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 03:25 AM

Ron B. Stard said:

What's wrong with all these cards and the dice etc. is that it all leads to less roleplaying, simply because the players will think 'I need this card or that to improve my skill/chance/whatever', or 'I need to roll 5 axes/whatever to beat him' and so on. It leads to board game mentality even if the game is NOT A BOARD GAME! (methinks mylady protests too much...)

Most of the cards seem to be taking the place of ordinary RPG effects. Players might think, "I really want that skill or talent -- it would help me out in that situation." That skill or talent might be written on a card, instead of in the rulebook. Instead of copying down the skill when you finally have the XP to acquire it, your GM hands you a card to save you the trouble. It doesn't seem to be all that much different from V2 in that respect.

The party mechanics do seem to have that "I want that card, how do I get it for my use next turn?" aspect to them. I hope they're not too gamey.

Also, we currently think "I need to roll a 33 to hit him", so it's not a big difference if you start to think "I need 5 hammers". I can't be any worse than thinking about percentages in the middle of a fight -- which are anything but immersive.


Join the Unofficial X-Wing Galactic Campaign and propel your favorite faction toward victory every time you play!

 


#47 Leogun_91

Leogun_91

    Member

  • Members
  • 173 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 03:35 AM

Captin' said:


This is horrible news! What if i have 2 players who wan't to play the same class? Or an entire party! And a bloody deck where i draw cards from? And you say this is NOT a board game? Then it is a card game, for it has cards. Argue that all you want.
Well if the party wants to play the same class I suspect you simply put that class card on the table and everyone can look at it, or if it is to annoying print a few copies of it. From this report it seems to be a RPG which uses cards in addition to dice in the same way as some uses minatures in addition to dice, I see no problem with it.......I hope they have alcoholcards.
Captin' said:

Another thing that bothers me is the Insanity deck. Before they had pages of information about insanities to describe in detail what hapened to the character. And if the DM didn't think they fit he'd make up his own. Is this what makes 3rd edition better at PR? I think not! How are they going to contain all that information on one random card! Insanities can NOT be randomized!
And this stance thing? Forcing gamers to do things in game is NOT Roleplaying. Quite the opposite.

An insanitydeck dioesn´t need to be bad, if the cards are big they could be allright each insanity had max half a page anyway in 2nd edition, if the GM wishes to choose which one he can flip through the deck rather than the pages in the book.....the isanitygeneration was random in 2nd edition to you know.....and stances if I understand them aren´t that bad.....it forces your characters to think about how they feel for an encounter......if they are cautious, aggresive or doesn´t care.

Captin' said:

As i see it, if i read the text right, it is something more like the more you attack, the more into it you get and must keep attacking in some kind of a frenzy.

This would be logical. But it is not helping RP, it is forcing it. RP is to feel what your character would do, not being forced to do it.

It does say "depending on which stance you choose to be in" and that you can change it every turn so I think it is totally up for the character.


Captin' said:

3 books, a party sheet, 3 character boxes and 3 00+ cards takes a lot more space then one book and 6 pieces of papers. This isn't opinion, this is fact. You can put all the character sheest between the pages of the core book, thus you only have to carry around the space of one book. You s icarrycan't do that with boxes and 300+ cards. And the die you can alwayn your pocket in both situations.
Yes a little bit but if done well it´s not a big problem and in addition it is easier not to lose anything if it´s going back into the box at the end of session, you notice it then and can search.
 

Ron B. Stard said:

But I feel this is going to be a losing battle, arguing against the game. It seems this forum will be flooded with perky and positive posts, no doubt paid by FFG. So let the propaganda and brain washing commence. I'd like to say I will never buy and FFG product again, but alas I think I am going to by Rogue Trader. At least that's a proper roleplaing, one hopes.

Join uss.......you know you want to......you will be rich



#48 DagobahDave

DagobahDave

    Laser Brain

  • Members
  • 1,264 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 03:39 AM

Ron B. Stard said:

It seems this forum will be flooded with perky and positive posts, no doubt paid by FFG.

 

Why would they, since I'm already doing that for free?

Ask yourself what I have to gain from doing that. All I want is a good game I can design fan-made supplements for. Since those don't make me any money whatsoever -- and since I don't work in the games industry and I don't even pick up freelance work based on my WFRP stuff -- this becomes a big investment of my time. It's strictly because I love Warhammer. Also, I like to roll with the new.

This looks like a great game, but I'm probably better-informed about it than you are. I certainly know more than you do if you still think this is a board game. I'd be happy to point you toward many other sources that have convinced me of that -- but I've got a feeling you'd reject those out of hand, since I probably can't be trusted.


Join the Unofficial X-Wing Galactic Campaign and propel your favorite faction toward victory every time you play!

 


#49 Ron B. Stard

Ron B. Stard

    Member

  • Members
  • 32 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:05 AM

DagobahDave said:

Ron B. Stard said:

It seems this forum will be flooded with perky and positive posts, no doubt paid by FFG.

 

Why would they, since I'm already doing that for free?

Ask yourself what I have to gain from doing that. All I want is a good game I can design fan-made supplements for. Since those don't make me any money whatsoever -- and since I don't work in the games industry and I don't even pick up freelance work based on my WFRP stuff -- this becomes a big investment of my time. It's strictly because I love Warhammer. Also, I like to roll with the new.

This looks like a great game, but I'm probably better-informed about it than you are. I certainly know more than you do if you still think this is a board game. I'd be happy to point you toward many other sources that have convinced me of that -- but I've got a feeling you'd reject those out of hand, since I probably can't be trusted.

I am not in the position to know how much you know about the game, so I won't hazard any guesses. I know FFG and other people say it's not a board game, but my point is that it will play like a board game, with all the board game's advantages and disadvantages. I also know it is claimed that the game will be a fully fledged RPG. But for me personally what we have seen and heard suggests it will be properly neither, but something in between. Fast, easy to play, colourful, expensive, littered with cards, dice, counters and gizmos, and so on. For me this is a major step to the wrong direction -this atrocity is not a worthy successor to the excellent RPG (v1 &v2).

I might also add, that I wasn't entirely serious about the paid FFG sockpuppets. I know full well that you don't need to pay fanboys anything, they'll happily proclaim the 'superior' nature of their infatuation to the end of the world. That is the nature of the Internet.

 

 

 

 

 

 



#50 Necrozius

Necrozius

    Member

  • Members
  • 947 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:10 AM

Well, I'm quite glad at the general change of mood here on this forum: from outright frothing at the mouth nerd rage ("FFG betrayed us! I'll never every buy anything from them again!") to actual constructive debate (from both sides).

As some predicted, the more details that are found, the more people seem to become cautiously optimistic.

That being said, the 100$ price tag better be worth it: FFG has never let me down before in terms of print quality, but... ouch.

 

EDIT: Oh oops: in another thread someone mentioned that it comes with four hard cover books. That makes sense then!



#51 Merroth

Merroth

    Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:11 AM

Ron B. Stard said:

I might also add, that I wasn't entirely serious about the paid FFG sockpuppets. I know full well that you don't need to pay fanboys anything, they'll happily proclaim the 'superior' nature of their infatuation to the end of the world. That is the nature of the Internet

 

 

Yeah right. Just becouse someone does not satanize a new edition without seeing any useful indepth gamplay review and try to keep a positive attitude towards change, they become superior to those who don't like the new edition so far. Nice that you think so. Again, you must take a break from all this becouse its not cool that you try to make others look like elitist jerks.

 But oh well, its as you said: "That is the nature of the Internet."



#52 MagnusSeter

MagnusSeter

    Member

  • Members
  • 64 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:12 AM

 

 

Ron B. Stard said:

 

I know full well that you don't need to pay fanboys anything, they'll happily proclaim the 'superior' nature of their infatuation to the end of the world. That is the nature of the Internet.

 

 

And vice versa, of course.

/M



#53 jadrax

jadrax

    Member

  • Members
  • 369 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:22 AM

Merroth said:

Yeah right. Just becouse someone does not satanize a new edition without seeing any useful indepth gamplay review and try to keep a positive attitude towards change, they become superior to those who don't like the new edition so far.

To be fair, the people proclaming that this will be the best game evah are just as ill informed as people proclaiming it the end of the world.

There is almost no information to form any opinion right now.



#54 Ron B. Stard

Ron B. Stard

    Member

  • Members
  • 32 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:28 AM

Merroth said:

 

Ron B. Stard said:

I might also add, that I wasn't entirely serious about the paid FFG sockpuppets. I know full well that you don't need to pay fanboys anything, they'll happily proclaim the 'superior' nature of their infatuation to the end of the world. That is the nature of the Internet

 

 

Yeah right. Just becouse someone does not satanize a new edition without seeing any useful indepth gamplay review and try to keep a positive attitude towards change, they become superior to those who don't like the new edition so far. Nice that you think so. Again, you must take a break from all this becouse its not cool that you try to make others look like elitist jerks.

 But oh well, its as you said: "That is the nature of the Internet."

 

 

I wish you stopped telling me what I must or must not do, or how I must think. You are in no position to order me to do anything. Rather, I wish you'd take a moment to consider why you feel obliged to bash any negative comment against the game on this forum?

I'd also like to ask why suddenly the negative views on the game are not equally relevant as the positive ones? Most of us base our opinion (-/+) on what we DO know about the game. For me this info is enough to say it will be terrible, and I have given my argument as to why I think so. Other people have read the same info, and they are enthusiastic. Fair enough. Just don't come saying that I can't be serious or that I need to take a break.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#55 ChaosChild

ChaosChild

    Member

  • Members
  • 526 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:30 AM

Necrozius said:

EDIT: Oh oops: in another thread someone mentioned that it comes with four hard cover books. That makes sense then!

To be fair, someone said that it MAY come with 4 hardback books. Someone else said they saw them at Gencon and they were paperback (though those may have been mockups).



#56 Necrozius

Necrozius

    Member

  • Members
  • 947 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:30 AM

The assumption (by those leaning more toward an optimistic view point) is that FFG, to my knowledge so far, has had a pretty decent track record. Some of us like to trust that they know what they're doing.

EDIT: to the post above: argh. Oh well, I'll keep being cautiously optimistic then.



#57 DagobahDave

DagobahDave

    Laser Brain

  • Members
  • 1,264 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:08 AM

Ron B. Stard said:

I know full well that you don't need to pay fanboys anything, they'll happily proclaim the 'superior' nature of their infatuation to the end of the world. That is the nature of the Internet.

 

Fanman. And don't try to be passive about. If you think I'm a fanboy, call me one.

Are you only somewhat interested in Warhammer? If you have only a passing interest in either of these games, I'll keep that in mind. But it looks like it matters to you enough to come here and talk about it. What's your interest in it?


Join the Unofficial X-Wing Galactic Campaign and propel your favorite faction toward victory every time you play!

 


#58 Varnias Tybalt

Varnias Tybalt

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,036 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:29 AM

Ron B. Stard said:

 

Fair enough. Just don't come saying that I can't be serious or that I need to take a break.

 

 

Just out of curiosity:

You accusing half the boards for being flamin' fanboy sockpuppets is you being serious? 

If that's the case then I might have to re-evaluate my definition of the word "serious"... Seriously.



#59 panzer-attack

panzer-attack

    Member

  • Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:46 AM

I have to say, when Fantasy Flight first announced WFRP3 last week I didn't like what I saw at all.  Still, I'm willing to keep an open mind about it and these points that have been posted seem encouraging.  I can't help but feel it's a bit too soon for a new edition though.  Either way, some of the naysayers definitely need to take a step back and stop frothing like loonies over it!



#60 Merroth

Merroth

    Member

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 17 August 2009 - 06:11 AM

Ron B. Stard said:

 

I wish you stopped telling me what I must or must not do, or how I must think. You are in no position to order me to do anything. Rather, I wish you'd take a moment to consider why you feel obliged to bash any negative comment against the game on this forum?

I'd also like to ask why suddenly the negative views on the game are not equally relevant as the positive ones? Most of us base our opinion (-/+) on what we DO know about the game. For me this info is enough to say it will be terrible, and I have given my argument as to why I think so. Other people have read the same info, and they are enthusiastic. Fair enough. Just don't come saying that I can't be serious or that I need to take a break.

 

 

I did not said what you have to think, merely noticed that what you think about others who did not share your concerns is "nice". There is nothing wrong about negative opinions, but you started throwing around that people who like it are paid by FFG, then you said they all feel superior above others. THIS is seriously not true. That's what got me into a hot-headed reply. It's safe to say that  noone feels superior to anybody posting here. Opinions are in conflict and thats about it.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS
About Fantasy Flight Games
Professional Zone