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#21 Claven

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 12:31 PM

Schwermuht said:

If the game has the slightest recemblance to a boardgame then I'm out for sure! I HATE it - I don't think it has anything to do with roleplaying! 

WFRP is dead - long live WFRP1 & WFRP2

 

 

Yes, because as any good roleplayer knows, roleplaying is dependant on system!

Oh, wait... it isn't.



#22 Sythorn

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:03 PM

Diriel said:

Valadar said:

 

I've also been a bit disturbed by what I've seen but I think it would be better to reserve judgement once the final product is out. The pics from gencon show a character sheet that is extremely similar to the 2nd edition. So it is possible that they might be offering two ways to play the game, such as how there are two ways to rule armor in the 2nd edition rules.

 

 

 

Player sheets in question...

3.bp.blogspot.com/_eqPrIE5E1OM/SoRCK5KBDmI/AAAAAAAAAGc/kCuHItjFC_A/s1600-h/0813091230-775642.jpg

It looks like there's six primary characteristics.  I don't see Weapon Skill or Ballistic Skill on there, so I'm assuming they're actually skills now.  Furthermore, I can't read the last characteristic, so I can't tell if it's still Fellowship or if they've changed it to something else.  Odd that they didn't add Perception, or if they did, it's frustrating that Fellowship may have been replaced.



#23 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 02:37 PM

Aldred Fellblade said:

 

It's already clear that the new edition is going to have radically new mechanics and utilise a number of gimmicks that appear to be geared to discourage piracy.

 

 

Discourage piracy?

Forgive me for asking, but have you actually met a person that has taken the decision of refusing to buy any more RPG books, because he/she can just download them online?

I find the concept a bit laughable, this is still a hobby where you pretty much NEED the books to be in bookform, and printing a pirated copy of a book seem like more of a trouble than just buying the book in the first place.

So why would these "gimmicks" as you call them be geared to discourage piracy?

I seriously hope that FFG won't buy into the whole crap idea about lost revenues because of piracy (a myth concocted by hollywood and disgusting record companies). Books have been available FOR FREE in libraries for years and years, yet still people have not decided to quit buying books. And just because you can get an inferior copy of a book for free online it doesn't mean that it will discourage people from buying the book later on if they think the pdf copy is worth the money.



#24 DagobahDave

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 03:14 PM

Sythorn said:

It looks like there's six primary characteristics.  I don't see Weapon Skill or Ballistic Skill on there, so I'm assuming they're actually skills now.  Furthermore, I can't read the last characteristic, so I can't tell if it's still Fellowship or if they've changed it to something else.  Odd that they didn't add Perception, or if they did, it's frustrating that Fellowship may have been replaced.

If you look really carefully at the Envoy career, I think Fellowship is listed as one of its primary characteristics.

Perception may still be a skill, but all basic skills may default to their parent attributes' full rating now, instead of using half the rating like in V2.


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#25 DagobahDave

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 03:19 PM

Schwermuht said:

If the game has the slightest recemblance to a boardgame then I'm out for sure! I HATE it - I don't think it has anything to do with roleplaying!

It looks like a board game because it's packaged like one, and because it has lots of nifty color handouts that probably last for the whole campaign. But from everything I've seen, it's just a snazzy roleplaying game.


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#26 Blood Stained Sunday's Best

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 05:43 PM

Shadowspawn said:

Darthvegeta800 said:

 

What a 'splendid' community.
Barely anything is known so far and venom has been spat at FFG already.

 

 

 

I said it before and I'll say it again. Disagreeing with the direction that FFG is taking with a game that we love is well within our rights. Expressing our annoyance can hardly be seen as besmirching the community. 

I suppose we are all expected to just accept and be happy about the changes, even if we don't feel that way? 

 

Of course you can be upset about the changes but at this time do you really understand what the changes are? Have you read the books? Have you flipped through the 3e box? What do you really know? Wait till it comes out. If it is bad.....then offer your opinion. Thats well within your rights. A publisher should respect that its fans are so devoted to their game than rather than abandon it they express their unhappiness.

I just find it ridiculous that so many people are crying that the world is ending and they haven't seen the finished product. It really says some awful things about the rpg community. Maybe we should all revert back to trifold black and white 32 page adventures. Change is scary.



#27 Aldred Fellblade

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:33 PM

@ Claven and Varnias Tybalt:

I actually included the stuff about piracy for balance in order to defend FFG on that front as the gimmicks look like a boardgame otherwise which there've been a lot of accusations about. RuneFang says that's not the case and he's certainly going to know what he's talking about. So what exactly is the point of custom dice then?

Bloody Stained Sunday's Best:

'''Wait till it comes out. If it is bad.....then offer your opinion.''

That's right kids. You have to shell out a hundred bucks before you even have the right to offer an opinion! Bend over and like it.



#28 Skaven

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:46 PM

Artaxerxes said:

Seriously...

2nd edition Tilea will be published but I'll be buggered if I can even afford this game let alone have the patience to bother with it

Please friend as soon as this is out tell me

Thanks



#29 Blood Stained Sunday's Best

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:55 PM

Aldred Fellblade said:

@ Claven and Varnias Tybalt:

I actually included the stuff about piracy for balance in order to defend FFG on that front as the gimmicks look like a boardgame otherwise which there've been a lot of accusations about. RuneFang says that's not the case and he's certainly going to know what he's talking about. So what exactly is the point of custom dice then?

Bloody Stained Sunday's Best:

'''Wait till it comes out. If it is bad.....then offer your opinion.''

That's right kids. You have to shell out a hundred bucks before you even have the right to offer an opinion! Bend over and like it.

Aldred Fellblade said:

@ Claven and Varnias Tybalt:

I actually included the stuff about piracy for balance in order to defend FFG on that front as the gimmicks look like a boardgame otherwise which there've been a lot of accusations about. RuneFang says that's not the case and he's certainly going to know what he's talking about. So what exactly is the point of custom dice then?

Bloody Stained Sunday's Best:

'''Wait till it comes out. If it is bad.....then offer your opinion.''

That's right kids. You have to shell out a hundred bucks before you even have the right to offer an opinion! Bend over and like it.

 

I'm gonna go review some movies without watching them and then I'm gonna critique some restaurants without eating the food. I don't like their advertisement in the paper so their food probably stinks and I'm pretty sure I can craft an intelligent review because I saw the trailer and that's everything. Yep. You really got me on this one. Haven't you ever gone to a movie and said, "wow the trailer looked great but the movie blew...." or the flip side, "hey, I liked that film more than I thought I would."

Don't shell out the hundred bucks.....take the time to read other peoples reviews after the product comes out...... see how that works? AFTER..... when there is actually a product to damn or to love. If you don't trust other peoples reviews go to a game store and see if other people are playing. Usually they release bits from the books online so you can preview the product, no?

I dunno if this edition is going to suck or not but I am not going to make off the wall judgements until it comes out. I have enough faith in fantasy flight games to make a good product. If they don't...oh well. I'll play 2e. No problem. When 3e is released, your old books aren't going to combust.

ahh the hell with that. It is so much easier to spout off inflammatory nothings.... Change evil. Worship sun. Awww it comes in a box. They're trying to box me in! Everyone knows you can't roleplay in a box. Worse yet, you can't roleplay over the sound of all those dice rolling. I tried to describe how my character was going to slash a dark elf and all the gm could hear was the sound of 30 dice rolling on the table. This is crap!

back to cave paintings now....

 



#30 Hellebore

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:06 PM

Your analogies are flawed. A movie with a bad preview will elicit negative opinions. The point of an advertisement is to ATTRACT customers. So either the marketing is bad, or the game is how its been portrayed.

Hellebor



#31 CRasterImage

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:19 PM

Hellebore said:

Your analogies are flawed. A movie with a bad preview will elicit negative opinions. The point of an advertisement is to ATTRACT customers. So either the marketing is bad, or the game is how its been portrayed.

Hellebor

The marketing sheet DID attract people.   Just not the ones who are afraid of change.



#32 Hellebore

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:26 PM

CRasterImage said:

Hellebore said:

 

Your analogies are flawed. A movie with a bad preview will elicit negative opinions. The point of an advertisement is to ATTRACT customers. So either the marketing is bad, or the game is how its been portrayed.

Hellebor

 

 

The marketing sheet DID attract people.   Just not the ones who are afraid of change.

You mean people who aren't affraid to replace their entire gaming catalogue with a new set that's not compatable with it?

 

Hellebore



#33 Blood Stained Sunday's Best

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:44 PM

 Hellebore said:

Your analogies are flawed. A movie with a bad preview will elicit negative opinions. The point of an advertisement is to ATTRACT customers. So either the marketing is bad, or the game is how its been portrayed.

Hellebor

My analogy is on target. Yes a movie with a bad preview may elicit a negative opinion but that doesn't mean it is a bad movie. You have to see the movie first to make that determination. So many people on this forums are knocking this game without playing it. Crying that its 4e hell and what not.

It is not suited to role playing!

Yes you can certainly say the preview is not good. You've seen the preview. You can judge the preview for what it is. But you can't say the game is no good. You haven't seen it. You haven't played it.  The advertisement could be bad for you.... for me... not so much. I like what I see and I may buy it. Don't mean because I like it, your feelings toward the preview is wrong.

You have every right to worry. The game is probably very special to you and its special to a lot of people. I get invested in games myself. It seems to me a lot of people are going a little to far. Express your worries but do it in a professional manner. More people, including ffg will probably listen and may tailor the next previews to discredit some of the myths.

You may very well be right. The game might blow. It might have all kinds of rules for restricting role playing. It might replace the GM with an automated adventure generator. It could use My Little Pony dolls to represent Chaos warriors. You might have to call ffg using a rotary phone in order to decide if your character can sneak past the city guards. Everytime your characters engage in a night time fight you might have to turn all the lights off in your house and read the dice with special FFG lowlight goggles. It might enact a system of dice rolls for every possible encounter..... or it might not. We don't really know.



#34 Darthvegeta800

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:50 PM

CRasterImage said:

Hellebore said:

 

Your analogies are flawed. A movie with a bad preview will elicit negative opinions. The point of an advertisement is to ATTRACT customers. So either the marketing is bad, or the game is how its been portrayed.

Hellebor

 

 

The marketing sheet DID attract people.   Just not the ones who are afraid of change.

 

Yep like me. And i put up the FFG post on the forum of the local shop. Apparently i'm not the only one drawn in by it.



#35 Hellebore

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:58 PM

All that should be answered by the product description, that's the point of a product description. You don't sell a product, especially one as expensive as this, by NOT telling people what it does and hoping they'll buy it. The point is they know what the WFRP fan community is like, they know what 2nd ed is like and their first method of selling it to people was in a completely different direction.

 

Now had it been released as a seperate game rather than as a REPLACEMENT for 2nd ed, i doubt people would have so angry about it.

 

I'm not necessarily against this game, but i am leary of it BECAUSE of the way they chose to represent it which is different to the previous edition and not compatable with it. There will be no more material for 2nd ed and anything produced for 3rd ed will be presented in this form, which given the custom dice mechanics is nothing like 2nd and not compatable with it.

 

Hellebore



#36 Blood Stained Sunday's Best

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 10:00 PM

Hellebore said:

You mean people who aren't affraid to replace their entire gaming catalogue with a new set that's not compatable with it?

 Hellebore

 

why do you have to replace your gaming library? Your old books still hold worlds of value. The fluff is the same. A good adventure is a good adventure. I own d&d books from every incarnation. I plan on running my group of 4e eberron players through a 2e Ravenloft adventure. Yea.... it takes a little work but its worth it.

I don't like the idea of buying a 3e book that has all the same fluff covering a region detailed in 2e but with new stats tacked on. That is a little dull....

If the new fluff books and adventures open up different things I'm excited. Again.... I'll reserve my decision for when the new supplements are released.



#37 Blood Stained Sunday's Best

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 10:03 PM

Somewhere they said more information was coming..... I don't think the meager bit of information we have now is meant to be everything we should base our decisions on.



#38 Nollaig

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 11:23 PM

Diriel said:

right now, none of us really know what the changes are and have nothing to really be upset or happy about.

Well I can think of one thing to be upset about straightaway: presumably there's not going to be a great deal coming out for 2nd edition anymore? I've always argued (since GW were still publishing the game)  that there is no need for a 3rd edition and yet, just four years after the last edition, here it is. What about a 2nd edition book on Elves, or Dwarfs, I mean, who decided doing the Skaven before the core races was a good idea? Now it looks like we'll never have these books. So, it seems to me that this is simply another pointless money spinner and one that won't be in anyway transferable from previous editions. It's true we have very little information about it but since it's entirely unnecessary anyway...



#39 MagnusSeter

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 11:26 PM

Nollaig said:

What about a 2nd edition book on Elves, or Dwarfs, I mean, who decided doing the Skaven before the core races was a good idea?

To me a book on elves and dwarfs would have signalled more cash grab than a new edition. I think that releasing the Skaven book was brilliant. The Vampire book ... not so. Although the book is very good, there are other things that would have made more sense. Such as a more general book of undead, e.g.

/M



#40 Nollaig

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 11:48 PM

MagnusSeter said:

 

To me a book on elves and dwarfs would have signalled more cash grab than a new edition.

Not so! Surely much of the appeal of WFRP is the Warhammer world itself? Many years have gone into fleshing ot out and there has been an awful lot of Dwarf lore in particular over the decades. So  a book dedicated to them would have made a lot of sense. There was a first edition book and it was very good, but not many people will be able to get their hands on that. No, moving on when so much was already left undone seems very premature to me and I suspect FFG will rue the decision.






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