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Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 4th edition "announced"


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#21 ragnar63

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 09:29 AM


 

Ugh, this would be the most depressing out one for me. 2E WFRP had plenty of books. Do you really want to buy them all over again for a slightly updated system?

 

 

And it doesn't make sense from a commercial point of view, which is afterall the only reason that GW and FFG are in business.



#22 Herr Arnulfe

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 09:59 AM

 

Ugh, this would be the most depressing out one for me. 2E WFRP had plenty of books. Do you really want to buy them all over again for a slightly updated system?

 

 

What they would need to do for 4e, whether it's percentile or symbol-dice, is gloss over the topics that have already been covered in previous editions ad nauseum and focus their pagecounts on the topics that haven't.


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#23 Nimsim

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:04 AM

 

 

Ugh, this would be the most depressing out one for me. 2E WFRP had plenty of books. Do you really want to buy them all over again for a slightly updated system?

 

 

What they would need to do for 4e, whether it's percentile or symbol-dice, is gloss over the topics that have already been covered in previous editions ad nauseum and focus their pagecounts on the topics that haven't.

 

 

The problem is that this is a bad idea from a profitability standpoint. First off, Gm-based books are the worst sellers for RPGs. This means that system-agnostic setting material is not going to make much of a profit. What sells are corebooks and books that give players new things to do. This  basically means that any new system is going to have to rehash things. The nice thing about WFRP3 was that it was implementing those things into a completely new rule system. It's at least exciting to see old things implemented in that way.



#24 jackdays

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:20 AM

 

 

Ugh, this would be the most depressing out one for me. 2E WFRP had plenty of books. Do you really want to buy them all over again for a slightly updated system?

 

 

What they would need to do for 4e, whether it's percentile or symbol-dice, is gloss over the topics that have already been covered in previous editions ad nauseum and focus their pagecounts on the topics that haven't.

 

 

There is another problem. From WFRP2 --> WFRP3 the timeline didn't really change (actually it went few years back). But the SoC event was still coming and all the WFRP2 sourcebooks were still "valid".

 

WFRP4 will probably start after The End Times -campaign. And this has for example rebooted the SoC event totally - so, this has negated some of the WFRP2 stuff already. And the first part of the campaign has made pretty big changes to the world. Just the war keeps on going for years... And that is just beginning - of the end.

 

So, if WFRP4 starts years... decades... century later (Warhammer time), It will be a new world. There is need for information about the current situation of the world. And then we need to buy everything again...


Edited by jackdays, 17 September 2014 - 11:22 AM.

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#25 Herr Arnulfe

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 11:38 AM

 

 

 

Ugh, this would be the most depressing out one for me. 2E WFRP had plenty of books. Do you really want to buy them all over again for a slightly updated system?

 

 

What they would need to do for 4e, whether it's percentile or symbol-dice, is gloss over the topics that have already been covered in previous editions ad nauseum and focus their pagecounts on the topics that haven't.

 

 

The problem is that this is a bad idea from a profitability standpoint. First off, Gm-based books are the worst sellers for RPGs. This means that system-agnostic setting material is not going to make much of a profit. What sells are corebooks and books that give players new things to do. This  basically means that any new system is going to have to rehash things. The nice thing about WFRP3 was that it was implementing those things into a completely new rule system. It's at least exciting to see old things implemented in that way.

 

 

I don't think that's necessarily the case. Granted, adventures tend not to sell as much as setting sourcebooks, but GMs purchase the vast majority of RPG books, not players. Also, there's plenty of scope for system-driven sourcebook material beyond the same old priest/wizard/Chaos stuff (e.g. Rogues, Rangers, non-wizard Academics, Necromancy etc).



#26 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 07:28 PM

Exactly. First, I may not have to buy all the "re-hashed" books, but new players would. Second, its not uncommon for a new edition to "re-hash" older material. I am less likely to buy a new game where what changed is the rules and not the setting/background. Everyone in my group (in Germany at the time) stopped playing WFRP when 3E came out and when I got to my new group (in Maryland) no one was interested in 3E either. Everyone was comfortable and satisfied with 2E.

 

It can be profitable to re-launch 4E as a revised 2E instead of 3E revisited. First, as I said earlier, they don't have to worry about GW trying to keep their new nifty dice mechanic system. Second, there is a long history of great games in the Warhammer Universes that use that system of a modified variety of it. Third, they can (as some one else mentioned) focus on areas long left untended, such as The Moot, Elves, a real Border Princes book, Lustria and so forth. The Warhammer world provides a lot of background and possibilities. To think the sales of the game is limited to its "rules" is quite silly. Even when the fantasy battles miniature rules "change" they barely change, just enough to get the people to buy a new book that has pretty much the exact same fluff.

 

So yeah, you re-use the fluff, revise the stats, upgrade the system and target different sections of the setting and different styles of play in stand alone RPGs (it seems to be working for 40K). Hell I would buy the FFG 3E books if they had 2E stats for them.



#27 jackdays

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:33 AM

Exactly. First, I may not have to buy all the "re-hashed" books, but new players would. Second, its not uncommon for a new edition to "re-hash" older material. I am less likely to buy a new game where what changed is the rules and not the setting/background. Everyone in my group (in Germany at the time) stopped playing WFRP when 3E came out and when I got to my new group (in Maryland) no one was interested in 3E either. Everyone was comfortable and satisfied with 2E.

 

It can be profitable to re-launch 4E as a revised 2E instead of 3E revisited. First, as I said earlier, they don't have to worry about GW trying to keep their new nifty dice mechanic system. Second, there is a long history of great games in the Warhammer Universes that use that system of a modified variety of it. Third, they can (as some one else mentioned) focus on areas long left untended, such as The Moot, Elves, a real Border Princes book, Lustria and so forth. The Warhammer world provides a lot of background and possibilities. To think the sales of the game is limited to its "rules" is quite silly. Even when the fantasy battles miniature rules "change" they barely change, just enough to get the people to buy a new book that has pretty much the exact same fluff.

 

So yeah, you re-use the fluff, revise the stats, upgrade the system and target different sections of the setting and different styles of play in stand alone RPGs (it seems to be working for 40K). Hell I would buy the FFG 3E books if they had 2E stats for them.

But, as I detailed in my post before this one -

 

WFRP4 is probably set to post The End Times -era. How much post, don't know. Also, we don't what kind of world is there after that crash :wacko:

 

From WFRP1 --> WFRP2 there was about 10 year change. Some background changes, but basicly everything in the world remained same. From WFRP2 --> WFRP3, nothing changed (actually timeline went backwards few years).

 

But what will the post The End Times will be? It could be totally new world, even the Empire might have changed. New rulers, new bad guys, new borders, troubles, some familiar places gone, others may have risen... Well, we don't know yet, it just very much seems to go that direction. IF (and this is still very much IF) it goes this way, then for example new Empire-book is needed to clear current situation...

 

Offcourse even then, everyone can decide which era they want to play and with what rules suits best. I would keep the Zweihänder - a Grim & Perilous RPG on the mind also.


Edited by jackdays, 18 September 2014 - 09:37 AM.

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#28 Herr Arnulfe

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:49 AM

 

 

But what will the post The End Times will be? It could be totally new world, even the Empire might have changed. New rulers, new bad guys, new borders, troubles, some familiar places gone, others may have risen... Well, we don't know yet, it just very much seems to go that direction. IF (and this is still very much IF) it goes this way, then for example new Empire-book is needed to clear current situation...

 

 

Good point. It's possible that the Colleges of Magic will be so radically different post-End Times that a 4e Realms of Sorcery would barely contain any overlap with previous editions. For example, Amber magic might now involve summoning skeletal animals, while Jade magic might be reduced to Petty magic only. Ditto for Divine magic - it's possible that the post-ET Sigmarite church will venerate skeletons of saints (http://www.reuschjew...s/skeleton2.jpg) and that the order of Morr will be overthrown or change its core doctrine to embrace necromancy.


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#29 x13phantom

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 02:36 PM

 


 

Ugh, this would be the most depressing out one for me. 2E WFRP had plenty of books. Do you really want to buy them all over again for a slightly updated system?

 

 

And it doesn't make sense from a commercial point of view, which is afterall the only reason that GW and FFG are in business.

 

If they did use an updated 2nd edition they could give careers that were not in the original or focus on a new area in the empire or lustria or tilea or wherever, also the race books that never happened. 

 

There would be smart ways to do it so new players can have a good game and older players want it for the new material



#30 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 04:07 PM

I did some early work on Zweihander, it has many good ideas in it. I could see 4E going in a similar direction.

 

I like the idea of a core book with only half of the original careers from the 2E book, then fill up the rest with new careers.

 

Feature different monsters in the main book other than just beastmen, skaven, orcs and such.






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