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A small band of Rebels?


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#1 Skie

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 12:36 PM

So I've been wondering - from the films we get the impression that the whole Rebellion consists of perhaps several thousand people - we actually see only a handful. Sure, I know the films follow the heroes' story but...

 

To crew a capital ship (a Nebulon, since they're main capitals in the Alliance) you need 900 beings, even if we assume that it's not fully crewed (2 shifts instead of 3) that gives around 600 per ship. MC-90s need thousands, plus the troops, tech personel etc. How can you recruit so many without alerting the Empire?

 

That brings my next question - how can Rebel planets stay rebellious. I do understand there aren't enough ships in the Galaxy to guard every planet (that's why the Emperor needed the Death Star) but still - if a planet tries to shake the yoke, those Star Destroyers will eventually come... 

I'm asking these question since I'm not that well versed in the SW theory ;) and I'm genuinely curious, especially about recruitment process that produces so many rebels. Thanks for contributing! 



#2 RedfordBlade

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:17 PM

That brings my next question - how can Rebel planets stay rebellious. I do understand there aren't enough ships in the Galaxy to guard every planet (that's why the Emperor needed the Death Star) but still - if a planet tries to shake the yoke, those Star Destroyers will eventually come... 
I'm asking these question since I'm not that well versed in the SW theory ;) and I'm genuinely curious, especially about recruitment process that produces so many rebels. Thanks for contributing!

The AoR Core covers this a bit, in the sections about The Galaxy and The Rebellion, but the short version is that the Galaxy is huge, and the Empire cannot be everywhere. On the Core Worlds, a Rebel-to-be might have to carefully seek out like-minded beings in the underground, and risk being caught in an Imperial sting operation. On some Outer Rim planets, the Alliance might open a recruiting booth, and then be gone by the time the next Imperial patrol comes through. Further, planets can be pro-Alliance, while their government is (or claims to be) loyal to the Empire.

As for only ever seeing a few thousand Rebels in the films, Legends has long explained that as being part of Alliance military doctrine. As a guerilla force, they keep their forces separated most of the time, so that even if one part falls (like Echo Base), the rest can carry on. The films only focus on the part with the heroes.
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#3 segara82

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:27 PM

It's a question of perspective.

There are several planets in the SW universe (especially the Legends EU) that have a far higher population than our current earth. We still have warbands in the size of hundreds of people that manage to avoid detection (for some time),

with millions of sectors, tens of thousands of planets, thousands of colonies ... if one colonie with over 10.000 people decides to go rogue and take what they can get from the Planetary Security Forces that can be quite something.

And then there are cases of a complete ship to go rogue.

 

Ultimatly it comes down to numbers.

1 System with 3 habitated planets/colonies each harboring 1 billion people in average ... let's say 1 in every ten thousand is fed up with the Empire ... 3.000.000.000 / 10.000 = 300.000

if just 1 percent of those goes and take up arms  it would be 3.000 people.

Now put a little pressure on that system, so that more people are fed up or take up arms.

The numbers just go up.

 

And planets with a billion or more sapient beings are not rare.

Then you add the ones in the Mid and Outer Rim where Imperial presence is scarce.

Plus the ones that are in open rebellion.

 

Compare that to how difficult it is to get a traveling arrangement to hop around the galaxy? 80k Credits and up, sound scomparable to a high-end car or half a one-familiy house.

 

It seems harder to get your rebels on a warship to steal.


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#4 evileeyore

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:16 PM

That brings my next question - how can Rebel planets stay rebellious. I do understand there aren't enough ships in the Galaxy to guard every planet (that's why the Emperor needed the Death Star) but still - if a planet tries to shake the yoke, those Star Destroyers will eventually come... 
I'm asking these question since I'm not that well versed in the SW theory ;) and I'm genuinely curious, especially about recruitment process that produces so many rebels. Thanks for contributing!

I'm generally loathe to bring Real World PoliticsTM into rpg message board discussions, but...

 

 

In the real world Saudi Arabia "secretly" funds and supplies Al Qaeda (by this I mean individual people living in Saudi Arabia) even though ostensibly the Saudi are friends with America.  There is little to nothing America can do (not being a) an evil Empire and b) the sole great power in the world) aside from asking their government nicely to stop doing this.

 

A Star Wars version would be Alderaan secretly funds and supplies the Rebellion even though Alderaan is peaceful and a member of the Empire (and mostly depowered Galactic Senate).

 

Though only Alderaan is destroyed for this, undoubtedly many, many more worlds secretly fund, supply, train, and probably house the Rebellion.



#5 RedfordBlade

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:00 PM

Though only Alderaan is destroyed for this, undoubtedly many, many more worlds secretly fund, supply, train, and probably house the Rebellion.

 


And while Star Destroyers can still make a planet uninhabitable through massive bombardment, the Empire is probably hesitant to do so now, as each atrocity just pushes more worlds into open rebellion.



#6 RogueCorona

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:38 PM

And there are very few openly Alliance allied worlds. Dac, and its sector which has enough of a defense force to hold its own against any force the Empire can afford to send to attack it, and Imperial fears of other worlds revolting if an attack were launched and the attack force was repelled keep the Imps away from Mon Cal space for the most part, Plus I wouldn't be surprised if some of the few worlds and regions of known space that were never part of the Republic or Empire have managed to resist Imperial takeover attempts are openly allied with the Alliance though many probably stick to clandestine support to avoid becoming higher priority targets.

 

I wonder if Contruum openly supports the Alliance or just does so covertly? (In Legends Contruum's guerrilla forces and militia managed to inflict enough damage that the local Moff decided the planet wasn't worth the trouble to hold and pulled the Imperial forces off world. If I were in the Moff's shoes I would be trying to avoid letting the Empire realize that Contruum isn't under Imperial control and I imagine Contruum's government would be fine with the Empire thinking Contruum is under the Empire's thumb while its really free.)


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#7 HappyDaze

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:44 PM

If you look at the Galaxy section of the rules, only a small portion of the inhabited worlds are part of the Empire.


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#8 Joker Two

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 11:17 PM

What RogueCorona said.  While there are many sympathetic planets and sectors, few can formally declare their allegiance to the Alliance.  Even the Mon Calamari technically declared "neutrality" after their revolution.  It was an obvious lie to anyone with half a brain, but allowed the Empire to save face while preserving the planet's shipyards for the Alliance.

 

This is the pattern from the early days of the Rebellion up until the Battle of Endor, really.  Only after the Emperor's death could the Alliance formally liberate planets, as the various warlords who succeeded him tore the fleet apart with their power struggles, and no individual Imperial could muster the forces necessary to go on the offensive against the Alliance for long.



#9 Skie

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 12:35 AM

Eye-openers, the posts above, are :). I knew there were regions of the Galaxy that were outside the Empire- like the Hutt space, but I've always thought the Empire was everywhere (I guess their propaganda was successful with me!) else, essentially every world under occupation. 

And yes, I was wondering about Dac - how they can be free and why hasn't the Emperor sent his fleets to pulverize the sector? Once again - I see the reason for the Death Star.

But now the Civil War and its scale make more sense and are more reasonable for me - so thanks for claryfing it for me.



#10 Spraug

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 04:18 AM

And while Star Destroyers can still make a planet uninhabitable through massive bombardment, the Empire is probably hesitant to do so now, as each atrocity just pushes more worlds into open rebellion.

And - more importantly - the planet doesn't pay taxes anymore.


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#11 evileeyore

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 04:36 PM

And - more importantly - the planet doesn't pay taxes anymore.

Also... Tarkin may have bit just a wee power mad. Just a wee bit.
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#12 HappyDaze

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 04:42 PM

Tarkin gets his own novel soon enough. I'm interested in seeing him fleshed out a bit.


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#13 RogueCorona

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 05:43 PM

 

And - more importantly - the planet doesn't pay taxes anymore.

Also... Tarkin may have bit just a wee power mad. Just a wee bit.

 

 

 

That's an understatement. Only an utter madman would use a strategic weapon like a planet killer on a populated world during an internal conflict like a civil war. And that's completely discounting any moral or ethical issues from its use. Can you imagine the results if the Death St was turned on the homeworld of some of its engineering personnel? Bye, bye Death Star. Plus using it on one world will leave the leaders and populations of some otherwise loyal worlds thinking the Empire and its Death Star need to be done away with before the Death Star gets turned on them!



#14 GranSolo

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 05:13 AM

Maybe it was that foul stench line. Either that, or his feet hurt. ;)



#15 evileeyore

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 06:34 AM

Maybe it was that foul stench line. Either that, or his feet hurt. ;)

O'ho, nice.   :lol:



#16 BadMotivator

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 10:00 AM

Maybe it was that foul stench line. Either that, or his feet hurt. ;)


That a bit below the belt don't you think?

#17 Inquisitor Tremayne

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 11:31 AM

 

 

And - more importantly - the planet doesn't pay taxes anymore.

Also... Tarkin may have bit just a wee power mad. Just a wee bit.

 

 

 

That's an understatement. Only an utter madman would use a strategic weapon like a planet killer on a populated world during an internal conflict like a civil war. And that's completely discounting any moral or ethical issues from its use. Can you imagine the results if the Death St was turned on the homeworld of some of its engineering personnel? Bye, bye Death Star. Plus using it on one world will leave the leaders and populations of some otherwise loyal worlds thinking the Empire and its Death Star need to be done away with before the Death Star gets turned on them!

 

I'm guessing that is one of the reasons the Emperor disbanded the Senate at that time and gave the power of governance to regional Moffs.  With the local bureaucracy out of the way the Empire could do whatever it wanted. 



#18 HappyDaze

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 11:36 AM

The Imperial Senate was actually disbanded because of Palpatine sending **** pics to interns.


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#19 GrimmSqueeker

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Posted 27 September 2014 - 02:51 AM

I've had a thought about Palpatine and Dac.  When we look at the prequel trilogy, we see Palps plays the long game, and manipulates people by manipulating events.  His greatest tricks, yielding the greatest power, are done openly when he makes people think his growing power makes them safer.  He becomes Chancellor because the government is too weak to stop the Trade Federation.  He has the Republics first army in centuries because the Seperatists are coming.  He stays in power because strong leadership is needed in time of war.  He takes down the Jedi because the mysterious order has turned on the Republic.  He becomes Emperor because only his strong leadership keeps you safe.

The key to this is focusing fear on an external threat to the weak willed masses.  Without that fear, without that threat, people might just start to look around.  Palpatine NEEDS the rebellion, at least until he has an operational Death Star that doesn't go boom at an inconvenient time.  An army and legions of stormtroopers need justification.  So, terrorists can attack anywhere, at any time.  A strong navy, especially one with huge numbers of ridiculously oversized destroyers, needs an enemy that can muster a fleet.  So, Palps needs to let the rebellion have a source of ships.  Right up until A New Hope, the Empire needs to play the public opinion game.  Palps needs his war machine, but until his war machine is strong enough to smash anyone who objects, he needs something to focus public fear on.  Once he feels he has the strength, the game is over.  Death Star is revealed, Senate is disbanded, and I bet Dac is on the (very) short list of Death Star targets.  The Empire almost certainly could have mustered the military power to take the Mon Calamari down at will.  But they were more valuable to the Emperor as a threat he could wave at the senate and the average citizen, saying "look!  look at the dirty aliens building warships!  This is why you need the Imperial Navy!  This is why you need me!  Now ignore the stormtroopers on the corner, and the new military appropriations coming through.  It's all about your safety!  Who loves you?  And when is that damned Death Star ready so I can stop playing nice?  What do you mean the mic is still live?  Oh son of a-"

 

My theory of Dac's continued non-invaded status.


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#20 RogueCorona

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Posted 27 September 2014 - 03:45 AM

I think you are partially right but another issue is mustering the ships needed to guarantee a win without spreading the fleet so thin that other worlds revolt. Remember that at its peak, which wasn't until after Yavin according to most legends material, the Imperial Starfleet had roughly 1 Star Destroyer for every 40 worlds under its control. Drawing together enough of a fleet to utterly overwhelm a major shipbuilding center and its defense fleet without leaving other major targets vulnerable would be very tricky.


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