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Why is Star Wars coming as $180 in rulebooks that are mostly reprinted info?


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#1 Valatar

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:52 AM

I'm not being facetious here, after looking through the first two books and the beta of the third, the majority of each of the books share identical content.  There's perhaps a hundred pages of actual unique information in each book.  Rather than asking players who already spent $60 and want more setting information to drop another $120 for two more giant books of mostly useless pages, the core book could have contained all of the basic rules, ships and equipment and races and skills, and the setting stuff like obligation/duty/morality mechanics and the careers and specializations and talents could've fit into $20 splatbooks.  It would have saved lots of paper and shelf space, not to mention money.

 

I've been trying to get my gaming group interested in Star Wars, as I really like a lot of the design decisions FF has made on it, but a light went out in their eyes after they asked about playing different characters and I had to answer, "Well, that isn't in the Edge of the Empire book, you'd also have to buy the Age of Rebellion book for another sixty bucks and if you want to involve Jedi you need a third book for another sixty bucks..."  That's the same reason they gave up on FF's 40K stuff; every time new content was released it came as a new huge book despite having almost no actual content beyond what the other books had.


Edited by Valatar, 01 September 2014 - 03:54 AM.

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#2 Krieger22

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:57 AM

Because, as FFG has stated over and over again since the EotE beta, the games are all intended to be standalone products. That is to say, if someone wants to play an all-Jedi campaign they don't have to buy all the other books to do so. And yes, if you want to do everything in the same game, you need all the books. Much like if you wanted to run a mixed party of vampires, werewolves and mages in World of Darkness, you needed to buy those three products - which all shared the same basic rules and mechanics.

 

Short version: If you want to play with all the toys, you have to buy all the toys. If you want to play with one toy, you only have to buy that one toy.


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#3 Valatar

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:02 AM

A core Star Wars book with EotE, AoR, and FaD as splatbooks allows them to be standalone products where you don't have to buy all the other books to run an all-Jedi campaign.  And while old World of Darkness did what you describe, new World of Darkness does have a core mechanic book; Vampire and Werewolf and whatnot don't repeat the information from World of Darkness.  They are essentially splatbooks, albeit huge ones, the game system is entirely within the World of Darkness book.


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#4 DanteRotterdam

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:22 AM

Hey, another one of those threads!

I think that if they would have gone in a splatbook kind of way those books would have cost $40 a piece each at least and providing the basic rules seperately would have taken up enough room to be another $30 to $40 release. That means if they would have gone that way you would have looked at $150 to $ 160 in total with the cost of just playing one of the games at $70 or $80.

Now, if you add to this the fact that I can now take one CRB and have all the info I need right there I'd say they made an excellent decision in taking this route...


Edited by DanteRotterdam, 01 September 2014 - 04:24 AM.

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#5 mouthymerc

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:31 AM

FFG did it this way because that is what they chose to do. You can't please everyone. No matter what format they chose people would have complained. Why do I have to buy two/three/four books just to play the game I want? No matter what, someone would have not liked they idea.


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#6 Amanal

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:00 AM

I am glad they went this way, a 800+ page book (with enough heft you could really hurt someone) with 18 careers, 20 races, a used space ship lot and cast of 100's of NPCs. In addition to only just getting the beta book next month and not having played the games or had much to discuss on these forums would have been far less enjoyable.

 

If they turned around and said we are going to do a 4th rulebook based on EpVII I recon a good portion of us would be posting "Shuddup and take my credits".

 

If you are having troubles, get the group to buy the books, a $10 entry fee for each book and then you GM the games.


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#7 EldritchFire

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:10 AM

A core Star Wars book with EotE, AoR, and FaD as splatbooks allows them to be standalone products where you don't have to buy all the other books to run an all-Jedi campaign.  And while old World of Darkness did what you describe, new World of Darkness does have a core mechanic book; Vampire and Werewolf and whatnot don't repeat the information from World of Darkness.  They are essentially splatbooks, albeit huge ones, the game system is entirely within the World of Darkness book.

 

"Stand-alone products". I don't think that phrase means what you think it means. Stand-alone means it doesn't need anything else. But your proposal requires two books: the "core" book and EotE/AoR/F&D. That's not stand-alone. That's stand…beside?

 

And as DanteRotterdam said, it would end up costing about the same if you want them all. $40 or so for the "core" book, with $40-$50 for each "splat" book. Conservative estimate: $40 for each book times 4 books is $160. About the price it is for all three right now. Add an additional $30 if the splat books are $50, and you're at $190.

 

-EF


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#8 Maelora

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:14 AM

That's the same reason they gave up on FF's 40K stuff; every time new content was released it came as a new huge book despite having almost no actual content beyond what the other books had.

 

Actually, what many people complained about there was that the rules weren't mechanically compatible and there was huge power discrepancies between each system. They also inherited the original system from another company and were limited in what they could do with it. 

 

Whereas this entire system was designed in-house from the start to be compatible with other games in the same system, and to minimize things like power-creep (such as balancing Force-users with other characters).

 

They made a decision early on to do it this way, and explained that right from the start. Yes, this means some overlap for those who want the entire three-game system, but it's easier for people who only want one. If they did it the way you suggest, with one core book and then separate settings from Fringe, Alliance and Jedi, you'd be buying two books minimum. This way, you only need one.

 

Thus far, the actual rules duplication has been minimal - specs like Driver, Mechanic, Scout, and Slicer, and species like Duros and Gran.  They seem to be aware of this issue, and seem to be actively trying to avoid it where possible. 


Edited by Maelora, 01 September 2014 - 08:15 AM.

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#9 Jetpack

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:28 AM

That's a really great point.   40K is the way it was due to things beyond the control of FFG.

 

It certainly sounds like FFG has done a pretty good job of keeping things tight for the Star Wars line, but we'll see how people report on Force and Destiny with more play time.

 

I rather like the split into the three games.   I can mix and match as I please.  Besides, if you are just a player, it's not like you need any books to be honest.   



#10 whafrog

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:21 AM

If they hadn't done it this way, the game wouldn't be out yet and we'd only just be getting a look at the first beta book. So it was a smart move from both a revenue and development standpoint...get the basic game in people's hands, and save the Force for last because that's the hardest to get right.

I do think a few years from now they will have to reconsider releasing a "core rules only" book, and several "theme" books to avoid a negative backlash from new potential customers like the OP.
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#11 EldritchFire

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:48 AM

If they hadn't done it this way, the game wouldn't be out yet and we'd only just be getting a look at the first beta book. So it was a smart move from both a revenue and development standpoint...get the basic game in people's hands, and save the Force for last because that's the hardest to get right.

I do think a few years from now they will have to reconsider releasing a "core rules only" book, and several "theme" books to avoid a negative backlash from new potential customers like the OP.

 

Then you're going to get people complaining that they have to pay $80 for two books just to play their Rebellion-focused game. You can't please everyone.

 

-EF


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#12 Daeglan

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:14 AM

Also they are not mostly reprinted info. There is very very little reprinted info. The mechanics which is a rather small part is really the only reprinted info.
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#13 evileeyore

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 12:09 PM

Also they are not mostly reprinted info. There is very very little reprinted info. The mechanics which is a rather small part is really the only reprinted info.

The reprinted pages form EotE:

Chapter I: Playing the Game - pages 1-31
Chapter III: Skills - pages 100-125
Chapter IV: Talents - pages 126-145
Chapter V: Gear and Equipment - pages 146-159 and 187*
Chapter VI: Conflict and Combat - pages 198-221
Chapter VII: Starships and Vehicles - pages 222-245
Chapter VIII: The Force - pages 272-285**
Chapter IX: The Game Master - pages 286-324 (-4 pages that deal directly and only with Obligation)
Chapter X: The Galaxy pages - 324-348
Chapter XII: Adversaries - pages 388-390
Character, Ship, and Base Sheets - pages 444-447

So by my count, let's see... 233 pages are generally reprinted in each book. That's just under half of EotE and AoR and 90% of my copy of F&D Beta.
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#14 mouthymerc

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 12:35 PM

Wow. I didn't realize all the information in the Starsips, Force, Galaxy and Adversaries section was identical. Silly me. Whatever was I thinking getting an all but identical book. So glad you are here to enlighten everyone.

Edited by mouthymerc, 01 September 2014 - 12:36 PM.

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#15 Gigerstreak

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 12:37 PM

I'm glad for this. That way if someone wants to look up rules or everyone wants to shop then people aren't just waiting around for the book. It has been GREAT in my games. I don't mind, because the artwork and feel are very different. In one game I run it's all F&D and EotE, in another it's all 3. The addition of the Rebellion mechanic/material really changes the feel of the game. 

 

At first I was worried about this. Now I love it. 


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#16 2P51

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 12:41 PM

People could always just not buy them.  Honestly though it's only $180 if you're numb from the neck up as an informed consumer.  Discounted online it's only about $120 for the three and if that's an economic hardship over 2 years then someone needs to get out of their parent's basement and get a job.


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#17 Gigerstreak

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 12:58 PM

I've purchased every Beta, every core rulebook, every beginners game, every splat book, every adventure, and even bought a Core of EotE for a friend. The only thing I am missing is the Cards, and I want them. The amount of money that I spend in a really good RPG is NOTHING compared to the money that I save for the entertainment value. Unlimited hours or a night at the movies?


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#18 DanteRotterdam

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:24 PM

Also they are not mostly reprinted info. There is very very little reprinted info. The mechanics which is a rather small part is really the only reprinted info.

The reprinted pages form EotE
Learn what reprinted means...

"All cooking books are the same.

Pages 5 - 35 soups and salads
Pages 36 - 79 meat and poultry
..."

Edited by DanteRotterdam, 01 September 2014 - 02:26 PM.

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#19 evileeyore

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:37 PM

Wow. I didn't realize all the information in the Starsips, Force, Galaxy and Adversaries section was identical. Silly me. Whatever was I thinking getting an all but identical book. So glad you are here to enlighten everyone.

You are silly.

Check the pages I specifically referenced, those are all pages of just mechanics dealing with Starships and Adversaries. As for the Galaxy section, it's the sections that are identical in EotE and AoR. I fully admit that EotE and AoR have one difference in their Force Sections, Influence is swapped for Enhance... so... ooops I was off by 2 pages.

OH NOES I WAS OFF ON MY COUNT BY TWO PAGES! I am so ashamed.
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#20 mouthymerc

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:11 PM

Enhance was swwpped for Influence? What was Forsee swapped for? Oh yeah Sense. And a completely different spec. Look I can nitpick too.

By the way, if you don't like FFG's three core book concept then don't buy it. Oh that's right you have no interest in doing so.

edit: frikkin phone!!!

Edited by mouthymerc, 01 September 2014 - 04:27 PM.

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