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Mission themed tournament.


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#1 CliffordHolm

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 02:04 PM

X-wingers,

Has anyone hosted a tournament that instead of the standard Dog-fight uses the Missions as printed in the rulebook and expansions?

 

My local group is liking this idea and we are in the planning stages, but we've heard that some missions are not balanced.

 

(I did a quick search of the forum before posting this and if this topic as already been discussed at length, someone please share the link.)

Thank you,

Cliff

 


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#2 DagobahDave

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 02:33 PM

I've considered doing this. Mission 1: Political Escort seems like a good candidate, but I'd test it thoroughly before considering it fair enough for a tournament. I'd have the players flip a coin before the match to determine which player will be escorting the senator's shuttle.

 

I don't see any particular problems with running a tournament using a scenario (or multiple scenarios) as long as the missions are balanced and fairly simple.


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#3 Parakitor

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 02:36 PM

First off, I think this is a great idea, and I can't wait to see how it goes.

About balanced missions, I hear most often that Political Escort in the Core Rulebook is unbalanced if you use squad building rules. For example, if the Rebels bring Biggs, all other ships can focus on destroying the Imperials while Biggs takes all the fire. Once he goes, the Rebels take the Protect action to keep the shuttle alive. Now that I write it, though it doesn't sound so bad. It would be a good challenge.

So, how are you thinking of the tournament going? Will you keep a single squad and draw random missions? That will be hard because the missions have different squad point requirements. Will you predetermine which mission will be found one, and which will be round two, etc.? Then each player could bring a squad for each scenario. That's a whole lot of squad paperwork, but it could work.

"That starship won't fly, Bastila."


#4 DagobahDave

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 03:10 PM

It's probably best to use the same scenario for the whole tournament, or to establish a specific mission for each round and publish this well ahead of time so players can get familiar with them. But you probably don't want to have too many missions -- three sounds about right to me, and recycle them if you have more than three rounds of play.

 

It should be very hard to come up with several missions that are balanced for 100-point teams, and if the player roles (attack, defend) are randomized then it should be difficult to come up with a "sure win" squad, which should make for more interesting and competitive play.


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#5 DoubleNot7

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 04:39 PM

I'd like to see a teams format too.
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Enimo Et Fide


#6 CliffordHolm

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:26 AM

Great suggestions and comments!
With my local group there was talk of the players keeping a faction the whole event and playing that side in the scenarios. The problem with that is this tournament would almost have to be preregistered only to avoid there being an odd number of players and it must also have equal numbers on each side.

I like the idea of a new mission for each round.

Please keep sharing which missions to avoid and to use.

#7 DoubleNot7

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:11 AM

You definitely need a different scenario each round. Simpler scenarios too since it is for a tournament.

Take a look at some new scenarios created under the mission control. You could also borrow some scenario ideas from other games.

A few ideas for easy objectives:
1. Eliminate the enemy ace (highest PS ship).
2. Escort mission, both sides have a vessel to escort off the table so they must both attack and defend.
3. Capture objective. Either a specific on board terrain piece that is static or multiple items/objects that can be captured and moved.
4. Engagement, eliminate 75% or more of enemy force.

It would be harder to do, but I tend to like both sides having different secret mission objectives. There are some games that carry this off well, the ones that come to mind are WW2 skirmish games.

Enimo Et Fide


#8 Parakitor

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:16 AM

Den of Thieves from the Millennium Falcon expansion pack is pretty balanced, and a lot different than your standard game. The Imperials have to escort containers carrying prototype starfighters off the map, while the Rebels are trying to steal the prototypes. I've played it at least 5 times. It's a lot of fun. Also, both squads bring 100 points, which makes squad building more familiar and quicker.

"That starship won't fly, Bastila."


#9 CliffordHolm

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:20 AM

I was thinking of using the prescripted missions that came with the rules.
I just got done looking them over and I like #1 political escort, #3 dark whispers, #4 den of thieves.

But there is a concern about these being unbalanced.

And DoubleNot7 thank you for your suggestions! Your #2 is a fair and balanced variation of mission 1 from the rules.
I also like your #1. That could be a shorter game and therefore I'll use it as a tie breaker or if an extra round is needed.

Does anyone have feedback on #3 dark whispers, and #4 den of thieves?

#10 CliffordHolm

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:22 AM

Thank you Parakitorv I think we were both typing at the same time.
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#11 YwingAce

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:23 AM

Use Dave's Death Star Trench Run scenario, that thing is boss.


Rebel Alliance: 2 X-wings, 1 Y-wing, 2 A-wing, 2 B-wing, 1 Hwk-290, 1 Yt-1300, 1 E-wing, 1 Yt-2400
Imperial Navy: 4 Tie Fighters, 3 Tie Interceptors, 1 Tie Advanced, 1 Tie Bomber, 1 Lambda, 1 Firespray-31, 1 Tie Defender, 1 Tie Phantom, 1 VT-49 Decimator
"Pretty, what do we blow up first?" - Wraith Squadron motto
GREEDO SHOT FIRST! *Ducks under cover*

#12 Parakitor

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:17 AM

Political Escort, in my opinion, is a god one. I don't think it is clear whether it's balanced or not. Earlier I shared others' reservations about it, but the fact that Imperial ships respawn as Academy Pilots helps to balance it.

I haven't played Dark Whispers yet.

One thing I like about the missions is that the tension seems to be pretty high, partly because we don't play them over and over.

"That starship won't fly, Bastila."


#13 Bakura83

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:25 AM

I don't know if you were planning to do this already, but make the same list do ALL the missions, that will stop people power-tweaking for every mission.

 

And come up with three VERY different play-style missions and do one each round.



#14 Red G

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:07 AM

The easiest way to make sure missions are balanced is to have each player play each side once. First I play Rebels defending the shuttle, then I play Imperials (against the same opponent) trying to destroy it.
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#15 Tuls

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:28 AM

From playing other Miniature Games in the past scenarios in a tournament is fun.

 

Here some points covered by some.

 

1 Same list through the tournament. Keeps peoples lists balanced.

2 Have a couple more missions available than rounds of tournament. Tournament is 4 round have 6 missions play-tested that way no one is for sure what mission is going to be played. Again it keeps lists balanced.

3 Make sure everyone knows what missions can be in the tournament.

4 Play test the hell out of the missions to make sure there is not a list that is too overbalanced across the board.


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#16 Babaganoosh

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:46 PM

You might be able to draw some missions from the mission control beta.  As a general rule, the more thematic the battle the less chance there is that it will be balanced, but I think there are some good ones in there.  

 

Time might be a factor with a lot of the FFG and player-made missions; the standard skirmish is going to be faster than just about any other kind of game.

 

Another problem is going to be lists; some missions have squad restrictions or requirements.  That takes a lot of missions of the table for a tournament.

 

Maybe what really needs to happen for a mission-based tournament is for the somebody to purpose-build missions in the Mission Control beta for use in tournaments.

 

*whistles softly*



#17 DagobahDave

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:25 PM

Time might be a factor with a lot of the FFG and player-made missions; the standard skirmish is going to be faster than just about any other kind of game.

 

It depends on the objective. It can take a long time to wipe out an entire enemy squad, but you might be able to achieve some other objective in less time.


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#18 Babaganoosh

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:30 PM

 

Time might be a factor with a lot of the FFG and player-made missions; the standard skirmish is going to be faster than just about any other kind of game.

 

It depends on the objective. It can take a long time to wipe out an entire enemy squad, but you might be able to achieve some other objective in less time.

 

 

I suppose that's true.  I'm thinking that players that are unfamiliar with a scenario are going to spend more time than usual thinking about the game than they do in a normal skirmish.  More things to remember and consider can make for a longer game.  

 

But of course, everything depends on the scenario.


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#19 Babaganoosh

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:05 PM

A couple hours and brainstorms later, I suggest this for your consideration:

 

Vendetta - a mission designed for a tournament


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#20 CliffordHolm

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 09:44 PM

I thought of another themed bout.  Its kinda of unrealistic in plot and story but could be fun.

Its along the lines of  a 'bash to pass' demolition derby race.

 

So the 2 sides start within the normal deployment zone on 2 sides of the map.  They must race to the other side and back twice.  (There and back, then there and back)  The first ship to cross the line wins.

 

I'll need to play test it to see if it shouldn't be 'there and back' three times or more.

 

This is not just a game of speed though as defense will come into play as those fast and quick ships have to turn around and come back thus facing what they just out ran.

 

Please provide feedback on the above!






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