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Is it worth getting into Attack Wing when I already play X-Wing?


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#41 slim chaney

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:35 AM

I play both, enjoy both.

They feel a little different, dog fights vs huge star ships. The crew factor is great but I prefer in-faction and in-era. In fact, I prefer in-ship as well, as in kirk stays on the enterprise etc.

The models are OK. Not to the quality of x-wing but perfectly functional none the less. I've washed all of my klingon ships and they look a lot better. I know I shouldn't have to but this is Deep Impact against Armageddon, two rival games released at a similar time which will draw inevitable comparisons.

To take it down the apparently inevitable food road...just because I like cheesecake doesn't mean I shouldn't eat gateaux.

:D
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#42 Bakura83

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:37 AM

 

Attack Wing is fine as long as:
You play with reasonable people you know.
Do not play in tournaments.
Do not mix factions (don't mix eras would be preferred).

You of course have to be accepting of the sub - prime components.

 

Yup it is cool if you buy the right scale ships just because you want to have it look right on the table too. I would never go to a crap-ass-so-called-FLGS to play anything like this, it would not be friendly... not at all.

:lol:

 

So tell me about the scale, because when I saw how tiny the Original Enterprise was I assumed the game did follow some sort of scale, is that not true?  I couldn't remember the size comparison for the Warbird and the Ent-D, so the starter pack didn't scream out of scale to me, as I thought all three of those where roughly the same size...



#43 slim chaney

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:41 AM

Not all ships follow the scale rule. Minyprise is in scale with the enterprise D but the defiant is well out. I would have preferred a "gaming scale" where all ships were the same size on their stands as opposed to miniaturizing possibly the most famous ship of the franchise. This has been addressed with the recent release of the enterprise refit thankfully.

Unfortunately this inconsistency hurt the game as it gave people a"reason" to not buy into it, not that all of them would have anyway.

Edited by slim chaney, 01 September 2014 - 06:44 AM.


#44 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:43 AM

If it was in Deep Space Nine it is all good IMO, and the same can be said of Voyager. That is how I look at it. Now the films with the classic cast, that is where I draw the line. So then what do you have then? You have everything up to Star Trek five, plus all of the classic Vulcan and Romulan ships with a few other races like the Andorians from Enterprise and TNG. These ships stayed more or less the same, because I figure the shows producers did not feel the need to have new models made. There is more to it, and I am over simplifying it but I do not feel like writing a book just now.

:lol:


"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#45 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:50 AM

Not all ships follow the scale rule. Minyprise is in scale with the enterprise D but the defiant is well out. I would have preferred a "gaming scale" where all ships were the same size on their stands as opposed to miniaturizing possibly the most famous ship of the franchise. This has been addressed with the recent release of the enterprise refit thankfully.

Unfortunately this inconsistency hurt the game as it gave people a"reason" to not buy into it, not that all of them would have anyway.

 

I can confirm this. I spent six months researching it all for my Boss' BIG Approved version of STAW. The Klingon Birds of Pray in STAW are in scale with the Dominions Jemmie Bugs, for example. The new fighters are also in scale when used with 1/2500 models like I am doing. The math is off but the look is right when you compare what you see on the game table to what you saw in the shows.


"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#46 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:55 AM

This is how you have fun with STAW if you buy off the shelf.

:lol:

 


"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#47 DoubleNot7

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:45 AM

I replaced the miniprise with a better scale micromachines ship.

Enimo Et Fide


#48 Bakura83

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:54 AM

I replaced the miniprise with a better scale micromachines ship.

 

I love how in X-wing people replace dice and templates, whereas in Attack Wing they replace whole ship models.  :lol:

 

It staggers me that Wizzkid didn't consider better minis.  It would have been such a cash cow.  And they had the chance to come up with a different enough version (naval duels rather than dogfights) of the basic mechanics to make fans of both consider getting both.


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#49 Stormtrooper721

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:05 AM

I was extremely heavy into Attack Wing but don't recommend it to others anymore. The power creep and game imbalances are ridiculous and uber-super un-thematic card combos are just plain stupid. The ships are fine, but the game designers (WK) are definately not even trying to keep the game balanced. I'm thinking of getting out of it soon. 


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#50 SteveSpikes

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:32 AM

I apologize for jumping in late to the conversation.
 

I would say, follow your "core" group of friends.  If they're willing to give it a go, then go for it.  If you do decide to play Attack Wing, Take it slow.  Buy a Core Set and a few of the expansions (to test the waters). 

I bought an Core Set, and a few expansions last year at Gen Con (2013), mainly because I have become a fan of the FlightPath system thanks to X-wing.   My core group was not willing to give it a go, so I'm kinda stuck with what I've got.  I do have some Trek fans, so I might hold on to what I have -- for now.  I might get the Enterprise (refit), from the movie so I can play out the battle between the Reliant; casually of course.

With that said, you could get the game to play casually, at home

 

Good luck.


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#51 MrTyres

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:34 AM

I am a Trek man at heart, and I thought long and hard about getting into Attack Wing versus Xwing. But my research showed Xwing as better-- better models, better balance, and better company. The models look downright cheap compared to X-wing. Scale issues bothered me a lot, and I don't have the paint skills to really do the ships justice. The game was already having balance issues last year, and from what I am reading in this thread, you can do cross faction...which seems terribly wrong and mostly broken.  Back in my youth, I played the Wiz Kids Pirates of the Spanish Main CSG, but over a series of a year or two, the newest expansions had way better ships, abilities, and greatly outclassed the original ships. It was the collectible part WizKids games (Pirates, Heroclix) that eventually threw me out of CCG gaming in general. Additionally, like Steve Spikes said above me, it is about who you have to play with. My current game buddies are Wars people, so thank god that X wing is the better game.

 

In an alternative universe, FFG had the license to both Star Trek and Star Wars and I would have had to sell a kidney and my first born to them to stay in models, but Rembrandt Brown and I would play Trek AW and Wars Xwing everyday of the week.


Edited by MrTyres, 01 September 2014 - 09:36 AM.

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#52 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:49 PM

 

I replaced the miniprise with a better scale micromachines ship.

 

I love how in X-wing people replace dice and templates, whereas in Attack Wing they replace whole ship models.  :lol:

 

It staggers me that Wizzkid didn't consider better minis.  It would have been such a cash cow.  And they had the chance to come up with a different enough version (naval duels rather than dogfights) of the basic mechanics to make fans of both consider getting both.

 

 

Yeah... that was fun. The only models even close to being in scale (if you do like I did and buy 1/2500 scale models for the other ships) are the small ships like Klingon BOPs and such.

:rolleyes: :huh: :P


"There Is No Such Thing As Luck." BLACK SIX RED SEVEN

STAR WARS is far more than three thirty year old films. FFG intends for X-Wing to thrive, thus it will be more also... PERIOD.

ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#53 zathras23

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:57 PM

If I was to get back into Attack Wing I would play exclusively with Klingons. I'd replace the craptastic WizKids miniatures with proper Klingon ships from the Star Fleet Battles line of miniatures. At least then the bridge structures of my D-7's would be on correctly.

Edited by zathras23, 01 September 2014 - 04:00 PM.


#54 Millennium Falsehood

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:37 PM

Whenever I think of how Wizkids and FFG handle their respective IPs, I inevitably think of two foster homes. One is clean and has foster parents who care for their kids, send them to school, put good food on the table, and tuck them in at night telling them that they're loved. The other is a nasty house with foster parents who act like they care by giving their kids good clothes, but then spend most of their time watching TV and don't really care about what their kids do or eat so long as they get their government check in the mail. And the difference is clear to anyone who looks at it close enough. And the ones in the Wizkids foster house are just standing in their back yards looking forlornly at the FFG house while their parents call them back into the house to get them more beers. And they better be cold, dammit!


Edited by Millennium Falsehood, 01 September 2014 - 04:38 PM.

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Rebel Alliance: 7 X-wings, 5 Y-wings, 4 A-wings, 1 YT-1300, 2 HWK-290s, 3 B-wings, 1 GR-75, 1 CR-90, 5 Z-95 Headhunters, 1 E-wing

Galactic Empire: 7 TIE Fighters, 1 TIE Advanced, 2 Firespray-31s, 1 Lambda class Shuttle, 3 TIE Bombers, 2 TIE Interceptors, 3 181st TIE interceptors, 3 Royal Guard Interceptors

 

"Main characters defeat a Star Trek villain? Give 'em a Star Wars celebration!"


#55 xanderf

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:55 PM

attack wing? why not "Star fleet battles??  lol...

 

Or it's updated/streamlined version "Federation Commander"

 

Now that is how you do a Trek game!

 

The mini quality is great (although you do have to assemble + paint them, yourself, and they are all individual purchases - the base game is pure-cardboard-only)...

 

pic703550_md.jpg

 

...and the level of control you have over your ship makes you really FEEL like sitting in Kirk's chair, redirecting power between systems, etc.  Only, unlike SFB's "spreadsheet" energy allocation, FedCom gives you either a slider alongside the ship side, or tokens you can spend (player's preference), as you spend your energy 'on the fly'.  Need 2 points of power to fire a disruptor?  Just spend 2 chits and take the shot!  It plays sooo much faster than SFB did.

 

pic134532_md.jpg

 

 

It is, of course, 'original series', only, but...well, they make the original series look good!

 

pic100449.jpg

 

NOW...as to 'Attack Wing'...

 

I've played a lot of it.  Played the 6-month DS9 war at 3 or 4 different stores, and won the entire 6-month event (with the prize DS9 model) at two of the locations.

 

Annnnnd...I'm selling all my stuff.  All of the flaws mentioned by previous posters are entirely accurate - WizKids balancing is absolute ****, the model quality is awful, etc.  But the real problem is the lack of playtesting.  With WizKids now dumping something like 4 new ships every month - 3 retail, and one 'organized play exclusive' alongside 5-ship-backs of blind boosters (IE., 17 ships every 3 months, with captains/crews/cards/etc on all of them)...you'd rightly think that there is no way they can playtest/balance them.  They honestly don't even try.  WizKids just keeps putting out more and more powerful cards with each new release, so you basically have to keep buying new ships to keep up.  You show up to an event with only wave 0-wave 3 stuff, and you'll get your ass kicked losing every match.

 

I really hate that.

 

And the worst part is that it no longer even really captures the feel of 'Trek'.  It feels more like playing 'Magic', where the entire "game" is not about play on the table, but your deck-building skills.


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#56 Keffisch

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:56 PM

@OP

 

Short answer: No.

 

 

 

 

 

Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


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#57 Bakura83

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:09 PM

 

attack wing? why not "Star fleet battles??  lol...

 

Or it's updated/streamlined version "Federation Commander"

 

Now that is how you do a Trek game!

 

The mini quality is great (although you do have to assemble + paint them, yourself, and they are all individual purchases - the base game is pure-cardboard-only)...

 

pic703550_md.jpg

 

...and the level of control you have over your ship makes you really FEEL like sitting in Kirk's chair, redirecting power between systems, etc.  Only, unlike SFB's "spreadsheet" energy allocation, FedCom gives you either a slider alongside the ship side, or tokens you can spend (player's preference), as you spend your energy 'on the fly'.  Need 2 points of power to fire a disruptor?  Just spend 2 chits and take the shot!  It plays sooo much faster than SFB did.

 

pic134532_md.jpg

 

 

It is, of course, 'original series', only, but...well, they make the original series look good!

 

pic100449.jpg

 

Ho-lee cow that looks amazing.

 

Wow.  WOW.

 

Wizzkids...you blew it.



#58 Millennium Falsehood

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:41 PM

As someone who is a long-time SFB player, it's a FAR superior game, and it's not even that popular compared to Federation Commander.

 

Not only does it have a great combat system (not as streamlined; feels more like you're commanding a starship that way), but there are plenty of sub-systems like the scanners, tractor beam, shuttlebay, etc. that allow you to play more Trek-oriented games. In fact, one of my favorite missions in the SFB book is one involving a survey vessel that has to ascertain the nature of a planet.


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Rebel Alliance: 7 X-wings, 5 Y-wings, 4 A-wings, 1 YT-1300, 2 HWK-290s, 3 B-wings, 1 GR-75, 1 CR-90, 5 Z-95 Headhunters, 1 E-wing

Galactic Empire: 7 TIE Fighters, 1 TIE Advanced, 2 Firespray-31s, 1 Lambda class Shuttle, 3 TIE Bombers, 2 TIE Interceptors, 3 181st TIE interceptors, 3 Royal Guard Interceptors

 

"Main characters defeat a Star Trek villain? Give 'em a Star Wars celebration!"


#59 dboeren

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:49 PM

- My research online beforehand indicated that X-Wing was a more solid, better designed/balanced game, and had slightly better quality components.

- The store owner said basically the same thing when I talked with him about it, and he also said that X-Wing tended to have more players (at least around where I live).

- The X-Wing miniatures look nicer; better paintjobs and more to scale.

- I knew that I would want to get my friends into whichever game I picked, so I'd have some people to play with, and they much prefer Star Wars.

 

I was left with the impression that Attack Wing was basically a slightly worse, cheaper (in terms of quality, not price) knock-off of X-Wing, so I decided to go with X-Wing.

 

I guess my last major concern would be balance. I've heard lots of horror stories about WizKids atrocious game balancing, power creep, event exclusives etc.

 

This all sounds dead-on to me and mirrors my own research which led me to the same conclusion - that X-Wing is the better option.  I know one guy in our game group who has ST: Attack Wing and he tells me there are not many players around here either.

 

If you are going to have time and budget for another game, my advice would be to get into a significantly different game which also has a great reputation rather than a weaker clone of a game you already have.

 

Personally I would suggest that you look into some of the LCGs or Doomtown: Reloaded (basically an LCG but they can't call it that since FFG has the term trademarked).  Then you can have another highly competitive quality balanced game with a reasonable cost.  Feel free to PM me if you have questions about any of them, I've played them all.


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#60 Bakura83

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:53 PM

- My research online beforehand indicated that X-Wing was a more solid, better designed/balanced game, and had slightly better quality components.
- The store owner said basically the same thing when I talked with him about it, and he also said that X-Wing tended to have more players (at least around where I live).
- The X-Wing miniatures look nicer; better paintjobs and more to scale.
- I knew that I would want to get my friends into whichever game I picked, so I'd have some people to play with, and they much prefer Star Wars.
 
I was left with the impression that Attack Wing was basically a slightly worse, cheaper (in terms of quality, not price) knock-off of X-Wing, so I decided to go with X-Wing.
 
I guess my last major concern would be balance. I've heard lots of horror stories about WizKids atrocious game balancing, power creep, event exclusives etc.

 
This all sounds dead-on to me and mirrors my own research which led me to the same conclusion - that X-Wing is the better option.  I know one guy in our game group who has ST: Attack Wing and he tells me there are not many players around here either.
 
If you are going to have time and budget for another game, my advice would be to get into a significantly different game which also has a great reputation rather than a weaker clone of a game you already have.
 
Personally I would suggest that you look into some of the LCGs or Doomtown: Reloaded (basically an LCG but they can't call it that since FFG has the term trademarked).  Then you can have another highly competitive quality balanced game with a reasonable cost.  Feel free to PM me if you have questions about any of them, I've played them all.
.

No idea why it's so popular at my FLGS tbh...I can only assume it's because they are used to the similarities to heroclix. The more I learn about it, the less I understand why X-wing is getting so little love.




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