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Species Statting: Miraluka


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#1 LibrariaNPC

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 07:05 PM

One of my long-time players is doing a pretty sizeable commute (crossing state lines and all) to start joining in on my game and has been pitching a few ideas he had since my old d6 campaign but wouldn't get far off the ground.

 

One of the ideas he's really been leaning towards is playing a Miraluka. As I've had notes about how to stat them since I got my hands on EotE, I figured I should ask and see what others think about the notes so I can finally flesh them out.

 

==Approach 1==

My initial approach was the following:

 

Human Statline (all 2)

All Miraluka are Force Sensitive and have a Force Rating of 1

All Miraluka gain the Sense Power.

Force Sight: Miraluka see through the Force. They are immune to effects that would physically blind them, and can for all intents and purposes "see." If thier connection with the Force is removed, they are blind.

Bonus Skill: Miraluka are given a free rank in Discipline. It cannot be raised above 2 at character creation.

80 XP

 

 

==Approach 2==

 

Agility 1; Willpower 3

All Miraluka are Force Sensitive and have Force Rating 1

Force Sight: Miraluka see through the Force. They are immune to effects that would physically blind them, and can for all intents and purposes "see." If thier connection with the Force is removed, they are blind.

Bonus Skill: All Miraluka are given a free rank in Discipline. It cannot be raised above 2 at character creation.

90 XP

 

==Other Thoughts==

I was looking through some older RPG notes, and they are a bit all over the place. The d6 version reduces their Perception (Cunning) while leaving the rest of their stats at the human level, while the d20 version reduces Dexterity (Agility) and raising Intelligence (Intellect). As Intelligence operated a number of Force Powers, it did make sense.

 

The first approach leans toward making them like every other human, only giving them the ability to see through the Force and giving them the Sense power (which I felt was a prerequisite to seeing through the force). The second approach was a nod to how we see the Mirailan and Chiss were statted as near-humans.

 

Any input on how to make this playable? Think it's reasonably balanced or should I stick with ships?


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#2 Dbuntu

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 09:22 PM

The problem with the first option is that a force power is way better than any other species bonuses out there. 

Starting a character with a free force rating doesn't seem fair unless you are also willing to give your other players something of equal value. I think removing setbacks due to light (or lack of) should be plenty. That alone is pretty significant.



#3 Kerfuffin925

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:46 PM

they have been statted out in F&D beta



#4 drbraininajar

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:49 PM

they have been statted out in F&D beta

You're thinking Mirialan aren't you?



#5 Kerfuffin925

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:57 PM

must have been. ignore me then

 

 

they have been statted out in F&D beta

You're thinking Mirialan aren't you?

 



#6 LibrariaNPC

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 05:33 AM

The problem with the first option is that a force power is way better than any other species bonuses out there. 

Starting a character with a free force rating doesn't seem fair unless you are also willing to give your other players something of equal value. I think removing setbacks due to light (or lack of) should be plenty. That alone is pretty significant.

 

I agree that it is a significant bonus, but I've also nuked 10XP from them for that rating.

 

If it helps, here's the logic I used to approach it:

 

--Acquiring a second specialization (Force Sensitive) will cost a character 20 XP and gives them both the Force Rating and the talent tree. Charging 10XP for the first Force Rating with no talent tree seemed balanced cost-wise (half the price of the tree with only half the benefits). I was debating up to 15 for it, but that seemed overkill.

An alternative was enforcing that they acquired the Force at character creation, but it seemed like forcing the character to be something drastically different than what is planned.

 

--The species is entirely Force Sensitive, some stronger in the force than others, which is why I've had the debate as to how to handle it. Force Sight was a good start as it basically works like Sense without a roll and without feeling like a radar (as it just covers sight), but it feels odd to give an ability directly tied to the Force without granting a Force Rating to go with it,

 

On that note, if Force Rating 1 stays: should I note that the Force Rating does NOT go up by purchasing another career? The careers state that the character gets Force Rating 1 and not +1, 

 

As a note, both d6 and d20 both automatically made them Force Sensitive (d6 was a write-off, while d20 gave the Feat for free and gave a bonus of the Sense feat), which is the statistical guideline I have to work with.

 

--In F&D, we see that the careers that grant a Force Rating are also shy two career skills, but otherwise function like normal careers. The Force Sensitive careers in EotE and AoR do not offer career skills at all, but still give the Force Rating. This sets the Force Rating between 10XP (the cost of two career skills at rank 1) and priceless.

 

--With my notes, I've been debating constantly whether or not they should have a bonus skill at all if they are walking around with a Force Rating. On one hand every species so far has been given a free skill, but none of them have been given a Force Rating. Perhaps I should remove that to make it a bit better off?

 

 

All said and done, would you think Option 2 without the skill and dropped to 80XP as a proper balancing act? I don't think an official species is that low yet, but it's an option at the very least as it takes away a decent bit from a character who automatically has the Force.


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#7 Enoch52

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 07:33 AM

It looks like you're pretty bound to giving them FR1 and free access to the Sense power.  It is a pretty powerful ability, and so far the devs have refrained from making any race inherently Force-Sensitive.  Think about what this means--every member of the race actively uses the Force.  It's going to make Force use much more prevalent in the game.  I'd prefer a standard 100 points with a free rank in Discipline and the special power to not be blinded by mundane means.  I think that captures the feel of the race without deviating from the way other races work.

 

If you're set on it, however, make them standard Humans, give them the FSE spec for free and the Sense power, and start them at 70 XP (20 XP for a second spec and 10 XP for the Sense power).  If you go this way, make sure to remember that they already have 2 specs when they start buying stuff with experience.  As you wrote it, in addition to saving 10 pts on the Force Rating (and I think it's iffy that the FR is only worth 10), you're also saving them an additional 10 points each time they buy a new spec, since they didn't have to buy FSE to get FR1.  It's actually quite powerful.

 

Remember that if you give everyone a Force rating you're basically making it very inexpensive for a starting character to start moving stuff with their mind, shooting Force lightning, etc.  I don't think that fits the race at all.

 

Personally, as a player I'd prefer to use the standard Human and have the choice of whether to buy the spec and power.  I don't believe every member of the race needs it, particularly if you give them the special ability to see and not be blinded.  If you want a unique race, go either all 2's or a 3/1 with a rank in a skill (Discipline is fine; it fits for a race who's attuned to the Force) and the ability to see through the Force and not be blinded by mundane means.



#8 LibrariaNPC

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 08:23 AM

It looks like you're pretty bound to giving them FR1 and free access to the Sense power.  It is a pretty powerful ability, and so far the devs have refrained from making any race inherently Force-Sensitive.  Think about what this means--every member of the race actively uses the Force.  It's going to make Force use much more prevalent in the game.  I'd prefer a standard 100 points with a free rank in Discipline and the special power to not be blinded by mundane means.  I think that captures the feel of the race without deviating from the way other races work.

 

If you're set on it, however, make them standard Humans, give them the FSE spec for free and the Sense power, and start them at 70 XP (20 XP for a second spec and 10 XP for the Sense power).  If you go this way, make sure to remember that they already have 2 specs when they start buying stuff with experience.  As you wrote it, in addition to saving 10 pts on the Force Rating (and I think it's iffy that the FR is only worth 10), you're also saving them an additional 10 points each time they buy a new spec, since they didn't have to buy FSE to get FR1.  It's actually quite powerful.

 

Remember that if you give everyone a Force rating you're basically making it very inexpensive for a starting character to start moving stuff with their mind, shooting Force lightning, etc.  I don't think that fits the race at all.

 

Personally, as a player I'd prefer to use the standard Human and have the choice of whether to buy the spec and power.  I don't believe every member of the race needs it, particularly if you give them the special ability to see and not be blinded.  If you want a unique race, go either all 2's or a 3/1 with a rank in a skill (Discipline is fine; it fits for a race who's attuned to the Force) and the ability to see through the Force and not be blinded by mundane means.

 

Fully understandable on all counts and a very well written response.

 

My one argument on the Force Rating with Specializations: all characters who start as a Career in Force and Destiny gain Force Rating 1, so unless those careers are barred, the XP hit and requirement you are suggesting becomes a pretty big hindrance.

 

On my first writing, the Sense power was included because we didn't have an example of sight through the Force without it, which lead to my approach with Force Sight as an ability.

 

I did wonder if an approach like with the Gand would be fitting; give them that XP back if they had a Force Career or not,

 

Anyway, for the sake of argument and balance, how does this look:

 

Agility 1. Willpower 3.

Wounds: 10+Brawn

Strain: 11+Willpower

Bonus Skill: All Miraluka begin the game with one rank in Discipline due to their connection with the Force.

Force Sight: Miraluka see through the Force. They are immune to effects that would physically blind them, and can for all intents and purposes "see." If thier connection with the Force is removed, they are blind.

100 XP
 
 
I still feel like it is missing something due to the species' inherent Force Sensitivity. How does this approach sound:
90 XP
Force Sensitive: All Miraluka are born Force Sensitive with varying degrees of connection to the Force. As Force Sensitives, they may purchase talents and careers as though they were Force Sensitive, but have an effective Force Rating of 0.
 
Mechanically, this will allow a Miraluka who is not starting with an F&D Career to purchase one of those careers after character creation and use Force Talents. It's an extra balancing act for players who don't want an army of spoon benders breaking the game.
 
Any opinions?

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#9 Lareg

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 09:12 AM

Why have you chosen agility as the  1 stat? Any particular reason?

I think the bit about force sight is enought , maybe make them FR1 too but give them no powers (and yes 10 xp less is a good comprimse), but that's not necessary. From the fluff i alwsy had the impression that they fully realized they force potential through jedi training but the normal miraluka didn't have any force power.

 

Do you plan to make the force sight different from normal sight? if it works like in KOTOR they would be able to see light force users and dark force users even if they hide it, and also see through walls (which is quite powerful) but they don't see colors.

 

I can understand why the developers  avoided statting them, it seems a kida nightmare to make them balanced.



#10 LibrariaNPC

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 11:52 AM

Why have you chosen agility as the 1 stat? Any particular reason?
I think the bit about force sight is enought , maybe make them FR1 too but give them no powers (and yes 10 xp less is a good comprimse), but that's not necessary. From the fluff i alwsy had the impression that they fully realized they force potential through jedi training but the normal miraluka didn't have any force power.

Do you plan to make the force sight different from normal sight? if it works like in KOTOR they would be able to see light force users and dark force users even if they hide it, and also see through walls (which is quite powerful) but they don't see colors.

I can understand why the developers avoided statting them, it seems a kida nightmare to make them balanced.

Of all the things to stat, Miraluka and the Anzati are the biggest nightmares in my opinion.

Regardless, I was looking at making Force Sight like normal sight for all intents and purposes. The seeing through walls thing is more like the sense power when you think about it.

As for the agility hit, I mentioned that the d20 version reduced dexterity (agility) but raised intelligence (intellect). As the d6 version reduces perception (not quite cunning, as that fills just a single aspect), I thought the agility hit seemed more appropriate in comparison.

Edited by LibrariaNPC, 31 August 2014 - 12:54 PM.

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#11 Green Tangent

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 04:22 PM

Why have you chosen agility as the 1 stat? Any particular reason?

As for the agility hit, I mentioned that the d20 version reduced dexterity (agility) but raised intelligence (intellect). As the d6 version reduces perception (not quite cunning, as that fills just a single aspect), I thought the agility hit seemed more appropriate in comparison.
My guess for the reasoning behind his choice is that agility is the stat of choice for interacting with far-away objects (through the ranged() and piloting() skills). Miraluka can make up for their inability to see by sensing the world around them through the force, but I imagine that's their focus would be on objects in their immediate vicinity.
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#12 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 04:53 PM

As for the Miraluka's "force sight" the easiest way to handle it would be that they ignore all setback dice imposed by darkness or lack of lighting.  Their force sight functions enough like real sight that I wouldn't give them any further perks beyond the removing setback dice.

 

I also would steer clear of having Miraluka start with Force Rating 1, or even defaulting to being able to pick up Force-sensitive only talents, as that circumvents the need for any of the Force-sensitive specs and allows them to start buying Force Powers right away.  And some players may want to play a Miraluka that isn't actually Force-sensitive.


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#13 BadMotivator

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 06:29 PM

I really like approach one, and I think that Miraluka should have a force rating as standard. They are known for their force sensitivity.

 

But I agree that giving them a power right out the gate is too much. Perhaps a compromise.

 

Go with option one, but no force power. Just Force Rating 1 and Force Sensitive. If they ever take Force Sensitive Exile as a Career they'd gain +1 to their Force Rating. This would give the option of having a FR 2 character out of the gate, but you'd be pigeonholed into a specific race and would only have 60 XP effectively.

 

I'd go with this, or just keep option 1 with no changes. Either way, you'd need to go with the understanding that this could be potentially very powerful and that you shouldn't have a party full of Miralukas. Maybe give extra starting XP to the others if a Miraluka is part of the party.

 

 

I like the idea of making it slightly different from normal sight, it could still be a little too strong if one PC could immediately rat out any dark/light side users in the area. Although my understanding was that all they could see was alignment. So a very evil non-force sensitive individual would still have a dark side aura about them. So you could really just tell if someone was bad or good, but only in a objective assessment. They wouldn't be able to tell if a guy is trying to rip them off, just that he really isn't a nice guy.

 

So functionally, it would usually be just like normal vision. But it would work regardless of light or other environmental factors such as cover(but cover might still mean its difficult to hit them with a blaster, so still a black die on ranged attacks. Just because you can see him hiding behind the rock doesn't mean the rock isn't still blocking your shot) and you'd be able to get a general feel for someone's alignment.

 

You could easily give out a lot of red herrings with this.

 

"That child over there is just glowing with light side energy(he is force sensitive but just a street urchin not important to the story)"

 

"The guy following you is dully pulsing with the energy of the dark side(not force sensitive, just a bad dude)"


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#14 Azrael Macool

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 09:44 PM

Maybe some kind of Perception and/or Vigilance bonus, to allow for their sight? And maybe, MAYBE, they can make a Perception check to be able to tell someone's Morality at a glance (failure they're inscrutable, success could mean within 10, each advantage get's you a more precise number, threats the opposite, despair means you think you're right, even if you're wrong, not sure about triumph). Maybe they get a boost die if the person's a Light side paragon or dark sider, or maybe that could determine difficulty (like, average for over 70/under 30, easy for over 90/under 10, hard for everything else?), and if the person has the force maybe they could use Stealth to oppose it? Just some thoughts, though I don't know if it's worth the effort to actually stat up.



#15 Simon Fix

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 11:49 PM

Why is giving them a power out of the gate too overpowered, if the appropriate XP is deducted right off the bat?  I think I'd go something like this...

 

Miraluka

 

Brawn: 2, Agility: 2, Intellect: 2, Cunning: 2, Willpower: 2, Presence: 2

 

Wound Threshold: 8 + Brawn

Strain Threshold: 12 + Willpower

  • Force Sight:  Miraluka view the world around them through the Force.  They cannot be blinded by normal means, and remove any setback dice added due to low light or darkness.  They can also make a Perception check to read another being's Morality, opposed by the being's Willpower/Discipline.
  • Force-Imbued: Miraluka begin with either the Force Sensitive Exile or Force Sensitive Emergent specialization. (For the purposes of spending XP, this counts as a second specialization.)
  • Force Sense: Miraluka begin with the Sense base power.

XP: 90

 

Now... explanations by virtue of XP.

 

If we start them off near-human - with stats of 2 straight across the board - and give them the same starting 110XP humans possess, let's immediately reduce the number by 20 for FSEm or FSEx, whichever the player chooses.  Now let's knock another 10 points off for the Sense base power.  That puts them at 80.  Now... let's give them back 20 for not taking a human's two free non-career skills (each of which would normally cost 10xp).  They're sitting at 100xp, right?  Okay... now that Force Sight thing.  Call it what, 10xp?  So their total is 90xp.

 

Sound reasonable?


Edited by Simon Fix, 31 August 2014 - 11:54 PM.

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#16 Joker Two

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 11:57 PM

No Career or Specialization grants Force Rating +1 as part of selecting and purchasing it.  Force-Senstive Exile and Emergent (as well as all of the beta Force and Destiny careers) grant Force Rating 1, but this is not the same thing as Force Rating +1.  A character who purchases Exile and Emergent is still Force Rating 1 until they purchase the "Force Rating +1" talent from either or both trees.


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#17 Simon Fix

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 12:03 AM

No Career or Specialization grants Force Rating +1 as part of selecting and purchasing it.  Force-Senstive Exile and Emergent (as well as all of the beta Force and Destiny careers) grant Force Rating 1, but this is not the same thing as Force Rating +1.  A character who purchases Exile and Emergent is still Force Rating 1 until they purchase the "Force Rating +1" talent from either or both trees.

 

... which is exactly why it's not such a big deal to start them out with Force Rating 1 or one of the Force-Sensitive Universal Specializations if the appropriate XP is deducted anyway.


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#18 Col. Orange

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:04 AM

They're all Force Sensitive but unless they train it's real weak, right?  I wouldn't give them a Force Rating, I'd just give them Infravision like the Chiss and relabel it Force Sight.


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#19 Jegergryte

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:24 AM

I've been working on a miraluka species since quite early on. I even discussed it here and on the d20radio forums I think. I've settled on nothing.

 

Although I have toyed with an idea that is also presented above here, to let Miraluka count as force sensitive, even with a FR of 0.

 

And I agree with Dono on the Force Sight just removing setback dice for concealment/darkness, at least two if not three setback dice I'd say.

 

I'm not sure what more they need, perhaps a rank in Vigilance or Perception?


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#20 Lareg

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:38 AM

On second thought removing setback dice and making them immune to blinding is enough for Force sight.

I'd also raise their willpower to 3 to account for an innate affinity to the Force.


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