Jump to content



Photo

Ways the rules could be better


  • Please log in to reply
98 replies to this topic

#1 progressions

progressions

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,537 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 10:52 AM

I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.


EOTE Styles and Dice Symbols for Obsidian Portal

Our group's EOTE Obsidian Portal: Explorers on the Edge


#2 mouthymerc

mouthymerc

    Not the member you are looking for!

  • Members
  • 1,581 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 11:13 AM

About the only thing I'm considering is swapping Pilot and Computers for Cool and Vigilance in the initiative round in space combat. Beyond that I haven't seen anything that really needs adjustment.

People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell


#3 evileeyore

evileeyore

    Member

  • Members
  • 586 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 12:08 PM

I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, oh yeah... hang on, let get my notes...

:D
  • Col. Orange likes this

#4 evileeyore

evileeyore

    Member

  • Members
  • 586 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 12:09 PM

About the only thing I'm considering is swapping Pilot and Computers for Cool and Vigilance in the initiative round in space combat. Beyond that I haven't seen anything that really needs adjustment.

Interesting. It's not a twist I'm likely to pick up, but I can certainly see why.

Personally I'm leaving them alone to justify why cockpits have to have windows...

#5 Krieger22

Krieger22

    Member

  • Members
  • 697 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 01:48 PM

 

I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, oh yeah... hang on, let get my notes...

:D

 

If you think the rules are so awful, why play the game? Why post on these forums? I'm sure there are lots of places you can pick up the Saga edition or something, that should be more your style.


  • Sturn, Doc, the Weasel, Donovan Morningfire and 4 others like this

#6 Atraangelis

Atraangelis

    Member

  • Members
  • 254 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 01:58 PM

Initiative.

 

I love the rest of the book, but initiative gives me fits. Individual initiative/Mob initiative , Nemesis/Rival, Initiative or not?

 

I frankly hate the way initiative is handled.


  • fatedtodie likes this

#7 Daeglan

Daeglan

    Member

  • Members
  • 922 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 02:03 PM

Initiative.

 

I love the rest of the book, but initiative gives me fits. Individual initiative/Mob initiative , Nemesis/Rival, Initiative or not?

 

I frankly hate the way initiative is handled.

Why? I love it as it actually encourages teamwork. You can actually get team work to work more often as you just go in the order that is needed. instead of hoping you roll in the right order.


  • Col. Orange and whafrog like this

#8 Josep Maria

Josep Maria

    Member

  • Members
  • 513 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 02:08 PM

A few minor canon-based changes and a scale separation between vehicles x5 and starships x10.

 

The rest its just awesome! Thanks FFG :D


  • Col. Orange, Jamwes and fatedtodie like this

Be brave and listen to your heart.

5,935 Profile Views.


#9 R2builder

R2builder

    Member

  • Members
  • 361 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 02:20 PM

For me, I don't like Astrogation. I don't really have a fix for it, so I guess I shouldn't beach about it. I have always felt like the ship should have an intelligence, or at least the Navicomp. I don't know, I feel like the actual computer should be part of the roll too. I talked with my group about it, but they don't really mind how it is now, so I am not looking at changing it. It's just I don't like it, but if I change it, does it really make it better? Usually not. But some people hate the rules and have to change them to what they deem "better" and that's great for them. But too often I have seen, and been part of these upgraded games and thought they sucked. For one, unless you want to spend five hours listening to the GM explain this better system, you have no idea what is actually going on. The book I paid money for is now worthless. Usually all these house rules just make the game overly complicated, tedious, and confusing.

Most of the time these house rules don't really enhance the game either. I have seen on these forums were people are changing the game and it really just hurts the players. People making force powers require Discipline checks all of a sudden, or changing how combat talents work becuase the Hired Gun can mow people down before the melee guy can get into range. I saw a fix for that was to limit the ranged combat guy to help the melee guy "have more fun ". Um ok...

So anyway, if I try to "fix" Astrogation becuase I don't like, will it make it better and "funner" for my group? I doubt it. Also, I love doing my terrain building; some of you may seen a little of my work. So I have to decide where I am going to spend my time. Making my game better by working on my terrain and adventure ideas, or by trying to build new rules?

This is not a knock against anyone out there who does want to change the game around, go for it. I hope you and your group enjoy it. And if anyone has a better way to handle Astrogation, let me know. :)
  • Col. Orange, FuriousGreg, Dbuntu and 2 others like this

Please check out our group and leave comments at: https://edge-of-the-...dianportal.com/


#10 kinnison

kinnison

    Member

  • Members
  • 557 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 02:47 PM

I have no problem with astrogation, i even use it as a simple knowlege check of the system.  Unless time or accuracy is an issue i usually hand wave the issuee.  Computers IMHO is too broad and doesn't need to be broader by including astrogation.

 

character vs Vehicles is so kludgy it isn't funny.  Not a single personal scale weapon in the core book can damage a vehicle with armor of 4.  I had to make a home rule that Peirce and breach always caused minimum damage based on value of the quality.  As the RAW a vehicle can stay at extreme range and take potshots at characters without retaliation.  Then try to include a chase with open cockpits, and it becomes a nightmare for a GM as you trying to mesh the two systems together.


Check out my current Campaign:

The Minos Cluster

Last session 9/6/14 'Beyond the Rim: Episode I'

Last Update 9/20/14


#11 korjik

korjik

    Member

  • Members
  • 306 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 02:56 PM

 

 

I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, oh yeah... hang on, let get my notes...

:D

 

If you think the rules are so awful, why play the game? Why post on these forums? I'm sure there are lots of places you can pick up the Saga edition or something, that should be more your style.

 

Where did he say the rules were awful? Where did he say it wasnt his style?

 

I could come up with a whole list of stuff I thought were bad rules. None of that goes to core mechanic. There isnt a first edition that could not be make quite a bit better. Heck, I would probably say that even if it was my name on the cover.

 

There are some things that dont work (ship encumbrance). There are some things I dont like (classes). Dosent mean I dont think the game is bad, just that I think it could be better.


  • RedfordBlade and Icosiel like this

#12 evileeyore

evileeyore

    Member

  • Members
  • 586 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 02:57 PM

Why? I love it as it actually encourages teamwork. You can actually get team work to work more often as you just go in the order that is needed. instead of hoping you roll in the right order.

Ditto. I like the flow of the way initiative works in this system. It's dofferent and plays into the narrative aspect well.
 
 

For me, I don't like Astrogation.

Yeah... I rolled it into "Computers" and "Knowledges" personally. Computers for make the "plot courses" rolls, Know for knowing about systems and hyperspace routes.

#13 naleax

naleax

    Member

  • Members
  • 23 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 04:21 PM

I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.

 

The biggest rules problem my group and I have run into is soak and the marauder specialization. One player picked a Trandoshan marauder and was pretty much invulnerable to blaster fire. His character also made the game much more difficult to plan encounters for and manage. Basically how do i challenge the marauder without killing the rest of the group. Removal of the marauder specialization was the solution. My group and I don't like the soak rules, but they are so intertwined with the rest of the rules that we have left them alone and implemented the WFRP rule: A Successful hit always does 1 point of damage, even if the target would soak all of the damage. Although that rule isn't needed so much now that the player who was playing the marauder retired it in favor of a politico.

 

I have a few other rules nitpicks, but nothing so major as the problem i mentioned above.

 

I make my PCs and NPCs be in cover or take cover when throwing grenades from short range or suffer from the blast damage.

 

I also apply a boost die to attackers against targets who use aim in a firefight based on the circumstances. Mostly if they are standing in the open aiming.

 

All in all EotE was a really well done game and most of the rules are pretty solid and can be removed or house ruled easily.

 

Naleax


  • fatedtodie likes this

#14 Daeglan

Daeglan

    Member

  • Members
  • 922 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 04:56 PM

what is wrong with soak? That is how armor actually works, it spreads out and soaks up damage before it damages the person. I have actually used armor and experienced this.

We are playing a space fantasy...


Edited by Daeglan, 29 August 2014 - 05:13 PM.

  • whafrog likes this

#15 Kallabecca

Kallabecca

    Member

  • Members
  • 787 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 05:42 PM

 

I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.

 

The biggest rules problem my group and I have run into is soak and the marauder specialization. One player picked a Trandoshan marauder and was pretty much invulnerable to blaster fire. His character also made the game much more difficult to plan encounters for and manage. Basically how do i challenge the marauder without killing the rest of the group. Removal of the marauder specialization was the solution. My group and I don't like the soak rules, but they are so intertwined with the rest of the rules that we have left them alone and implemented the WFRP rule: A Successful hit always does 1 point of damage, even if the target would soak all of the damage. Although that rule isn't needed so much now that the player who was playing the marauder retired it in favor of a politico.

Marauder with high soak... Hit him with a weapon that does Stun (Active). Totally ignores Soak and odds are he won't have as high a strain threshold as wound threshold.

 

Example, Shock Gloves do Stun 3. that's 3 strain that is ignoring his soak when activated. There are always ways to challenge someone who's specialized in one direction without overcompensating and TPKing the party.



#16 Daeglan

Daeglan

    Member

  • Members
  • 922 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 06:03 PM

training sabers and stun batons and Thunderbolt shock prod.


  • kaosoe likes this

#17 yeti1069

yeti1069

    Member

  • Members
  • 362 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 07:57 PM

 

 

I was wondering if there were any parts of the rules that you guys thought were bad, and if you had ideas on ways to do them better.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, oh yeah... hang on, let get my notes...

:D

 

If you think the rules are so awful, why play the game? Why post on these forums? I'm sure there are lots of places you can pick up the Saga edition or something, that should be more your style.

 

Don't conflate having a laundry list of problems with the rules as not liking the system as a whole. I see too many people make the mistake of thinking that complaints mean someone should ditch the game, like someone abandoning ship because they've found some leaks that can be plugged.

 

Initiative.

 

I love the rest of the book, but initiative gives me fits. Individual initiative/Mob initiative , Nemesis/Rival, Initiative or not?

 

I frankly hate the way initiative is handled.

I'm not a fan of the way initiative gets handled in regards to the dice--for instance, the Vigilance skill's description mentions effects for Threat and Despair, but when the only check you're really ever using it for is a Simple difficulty, how do you generate those?

This is also problematic when a group is getting ambushed/doing the ambushing, as there really doesn't appear to be any mechanical way of representing that fairly common circumstance.

 

I'd prefer if There were a difficulty we were actually rolling against based on circumstances.

 

I'd really like the rules to give some better examples (or any at all) of difficulty levels, when to add Setbacks, and when to upgrade for every skill in the book. Some of that is just too nebulous right now.

 

I think the cover rules could use some revision.

 

We could use some better mechanics bridging personal and vehicle combat.

 

I agree that Astrogation is kind of crappy, especially when we see most jumps being handled by a Navicomputer.

 

It would be nice to have some rules or guidelines for languages.



#18 kaosoe

kaosoe

    Not the GM my players need, but the one they deserve.

  • Members
  • 1,561 posts

Posted 30 August 2014 - 07:35 AM

I think soak should be a more expensive resource to increase. It's quite easy to make a soak monster that can turn around and be quite formidable offensively.


Edited by kaosoe, 30 August 2014 - 07:35 AM.

  • Col. Orange and naleax like this

Scavenger - On the d20Radio forums.

Pronounced: Kay - Oh - So


#19 naleax

naleax

    Member

  • Members
  • 23 posts

Posted 30 August 2014 - 09:30 AM

what is wrong with soak? That is how armor actually works, it spreads out and soaks up damage before it damages the person. I have actually used armor and experienced this.

We are playing a space fantasy...

I have no problem with armor soaking. Your are correct, that is how armor works. I have a problem with brawn+talents+armor can  makes 9 or 10 soak characters. Not even a blaster rifles raw damage will hurt them. It's just a bit ridiculous when the soak gets that high and it doesn't make any sense that a blaster rifle will even scratch someone with soak 9. The marauder is the case in point, and once we removed it, the game balanced back out. 



#20 naleax

naleax

    Member

  • Members
  • 23 posts

Posted 30 August 2014 - 09:31 AM

I think soak should be a more expensive resource to increase. It's quite easy to make a soak monster that can turn around and be quite formidable offensively.

 

Agree 110%






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS