Jump to content



Photo

Getting Players to Spend Fate Points


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#21 Nimsim

Nimsim

    Member

  • Members
  • 906 posts

Posted 28 August 2014 - 02:26 PM

 

It's generally bad practice to reward fate points for rolling well. It would probably be better to give them a fate point for having a great plan and then seeing it fail horribly by bad luck.

I didn't really ask your opinion on whether it was a good idea to do it, but they didn't have a good plan either. Bad luck happens that's why I don't like Fate in general, especially when players use a fate point and then proceed to fail again.

 

 

Ooh, someone's saucy. Just offering some advice. Rolling really well is reward enough. Having terrible luck but then getting a temporary fate point afterward (I should clarify that the fate point would not be usable on the failed roll) is a way of rewarding players for bad that actually encourages them to take risky plans and so on mechanically.



#22 ThenDoctor

ThenDoctor

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,325 posts

Posted 28 August 2014 - 02:36 PM

To each their own, I see fate points as being rewards for surviving something that one should which should be very rare indeed. I might be more giving if my players actually used them more often, but they don't so I have no reason to increase a pool of points they rarely take from anyways.


  • Lexdamus likes this

I've made an expanded Divination table for Dark Heresy Second Edition. Find it here: 

 

http://community.fan...general-thread/


#23 Lynata

Lynata

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,099 posts

Posted 28 August 2014 - 03:34 PM

I think it's just a question of player type.

 

Personally, I have a huge problem with "consumables" in any type of game I play, and you could say FP are a type of consumable. I'm only ever using stuff like medikits when they are absolutely necessary, but I am very, very tight-fisted when it comes to buffs - simply because there is something in my brain telling me I should save them for when I really need them. Which usually ends up with me not using them at all, and in computer games ultimately simply out-leveling and then selling or throwing them away.

 

In essence, my "waste not" personality is keeping me to get the maximum efficiency out of consumables, including Fate. And I have seen a lot of players having similar problems. I'm not sure you could really "train" a player to drop this behaviour when it extends beyond the one game you are playing.

 

It is for this reason I came up with the "once per encounter" stuff in my alternate rules for Acts of Faith.


  • Ariakor and Arbitrator like this
current 40k RPG character: Aura Vashaan, Astromancer Witch-Priestess
previous characters: Captain Elias (Celestial Lions Chapter -- debriefed), Comrade-Trooper Dasha Malenko (1207th Valhallan Ice Warriors -- KIA), Sister Elana (Order of the Sacred Rose -- assassinated), Leftenant Darion Baylesworth (Rogue Trader Artemisia -- retired), Taleera "Raven" Nephran (Hive Ganger & Inquisitorial Assassin -- mindwiped)

#24 Covered in Weasels

Covered in Weasels

    Member

  • Members
  • 537 posts

Posted 28 August 2014 - 09:27 PM

Numenera has a cool rule for "GM Intrusions" which could be adapted to DH. To perform a GM Intrusion, the GM awards a player 2 XP -- one to keep for themself and one to give to another player of their choice. XP are used to level up (~4 to purchase a new ability, ~16 total to increase rank) but can also be used to re-roll any attack/defense roll or skill check. In return, the GM gets to put the player in a dangerous situation or amplify their failures. For example, a climbing player might lose their handhold and fall near their enemies, or a player's missed attack will hit their friend instead of their intended target. The players usually have the opportunity for some counterplay -- quick thinking and a hasty escape can save the fallen climber, for example

In DH, a GM could use a similar system to award temporary Fate points to kick the difficulty of an encounter up a notch. A player might have a gun jam, lose their footing in melee, or suffer any unfortunate circumstance the GM can conceive. This has to be handled well to keep the players from crying BS, but it has the potential to make fights more dynamic and encourage Fate spending.
  • Lynata likes this

Do not ask why you serve.  Only ask how.

 

Synonymous names include: Buried in Ferrets, Enveloped by Ermine.

Currently GMing a Dark Heresy 2.0 game and inflicting untold misery upon Martin Lockheed and company.


#25 Nimsim

Nimsim

    Member

  • Members
  • 906 posts

Posted 28 August 2014 - 11:53 PM

To each their own, I see fate points as being rewards for surviving something that one should which should be very rare indeed. I might be more giving if my players actually used them more often, but they don't so I have no reason to increase a pool of points they rarely take from anyways.


Not awarding a lot of fate points due to players not using them is fine. One of the other nice things you can do with them is when a player asks for a "favor" from the GM like "well we remembered to being our rebreathers with us" or "is there a fire escape on the building" you can tell them that for the cost of a fate point there is.

Also, I generally just advise against rewarding lucky rolls because that isn't rewarding player behavior. A player should never be treated as responsible for how his dice roll, and fate points are meant to reward a player, not a character. Something else you could do is when a player comes up with an outlandish plan that sounds awesome, just give him the fate point right away, regardless of if he fails or succeeds at it. This encourages him to come up with interesting plans.
  • Lynata likes this

#26 Magnus Grendel

Magnus Grendel

    The Empire Needs You!

  • Members
  • 1,397 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 02:42 AM

Huh, odd. Games I've played in (Rogue Trader and Black Crusade, mainly), the Fate Points/Infamy Points have been hotly sought after, often used for healing and adding +10 to rolls.

Note that part of this is because most of them can't actually spend it on rerolls in the Black Crusade game, though. I really like the scaling capabilities for Infamy Points in Black Crusade.

 

I really, really like the Black Crusade mechanics - not only do they become more awesome as you get better, but they also diverge in use based on your alignment

 

I think it's just a question of player type.

 

Personally, I have a huge problem with "consumables" in any type of game I play, and you could say FP are a type of consumable. I'm only ever using stuff like medikits when they are absolutely necessary, but I am very, very tight-fisted when it comes to buffs - simply because there is something in my brain telling me I should save them for when I really need them. Which usually ends up with me not using them at all, and in computer games ultimately simply out-leveling and then selling or throwing them away.

 

In essence, my "waste not" personality is keeping me to get the maximum efficiency out of consumables, including Fate. And I have seen a lot of players having similar problems. I'm not sure you could really "train" a player to drop this behaviour when it extends beyond the one game you are playing.

 

It is for this reason I came up with the "once per encounter" stuff in my alternate rules for Acts of Faith.

 

A lot of players are like that. It's why focusing their attention on the 'once per game session' of the fate points is important; if you end an evening's play with any left, your character has in some way been less awesome than they could have been...

 

It's why the one house rule I've gone with is to make the Emperor's blessing roll a start-of-session thing; people might or might not have a 'free fate point' each session, but if they do there's no reason to hang on to it...



#27 Kaic

Kaic

    Member

  • Members
  • 147 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 07:13 AM

Numenera has a cool rule for "GM Intrusions" which could be adapted to DH.

 

I haven't played Numenera, but this system sounds awesome!  I might have to find ways to adapt it to other systems as well.



#28 borithan

borithan

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,257 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 07:48 AM

I think it's just a question of player type.

 

Personally, I have a huge problem with "consumables" in any type of game I play, and you could say FP are a type of consumable. I'm only ever using stuff like medikits when they are absolutely necessary, but I am very, very tight-fisted when it comes to buffs - simply because there is something in my brain telling me I should save them for when I really need them. Which usually ends up with me not using them at all, and in computer games ultimately simply out-leveling and then selling or throwing them away.

Always have this problem myself. On top of that I am ahopeless hoarder, so I usually end up with an inventory full of random one off things I am never really going to use.


  • Lynata likes this

#29 Kaic

Kaic

    Member

  • Members
  • 147 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 10:08 AM

Personally, I have a huge problem with "consumables" in any type of game I play, and you could say FP are a type of consumable. I'm only ever using stuff like medikits when they are absolutely necessary, but I am very, very tight-fisted when it comes to buffs - simply because there is something in my brain telling me I should save them for when I really need them.

 

I have some players like this, I just tend to put them into situations where they feel using FP are absolutely necessary.  It does tend to make the games more difficult, but my players (now) tend to prefer that.  In fact, I have one player who plays with another group and complains that the games are "too easy".


  • Lexdamus likes this

#30 Lexdamus

Lexdamus

    Member

  • Members
  • 46 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 12:46 PM

 

Personally, I have a huge problem with "consumables" in any type of game I play, and you could say FP are a type of consumable. I'm only ever using stuff like medikits when they are absolutely necessary, but I am very, very tight-fisted when it comes to buffs - simply because there is something in my brain telling me I should save them for when I really need them.

 

I have some players like this, I just tend to put them into situations where they feel using FP are absolutely necessary.  It does tend to make the games more difficult, but my players (now) tend to prefer that.  In fact, I have one player who plays with another group and complains that the games are "too easy".

 

 

The groups I gm and the one I play in do this. We have had a few even burning fate permanently. It has been that close at times. And the players all seem to enjoy the challenge immensely. Rarely do they go in half cocked into an engagement. 


  • Kaic likes this

#31 Covered in Weasels

Covered in Weasels

    Member

  • Members
  • 537 posts

Posted 29 August 2014 - 05:24 PM

I'm a very aggressive, high-risk player -- I spend Fate points, throw grenades, push psychic powers, and generally fire off my limited use abilities whenever I think they will help me. I'm in the minority among my gaming group, and judging from these thread responses I'm in the minority among forum posters as well :)

 

Basically, I think of Fate points as a renewable resource rather than a precious commodity. I know that all my unspent Fate will dissipate after every session, so I do my best to make sure nothing goes to waste. I take a proactive approach to preventing damage; if the heavy stubber-toting mutant dies to my krak grenade or Fate-boosted sniper shot, I won't have to worry about acing the Dodge roll later :)


  • Keffisch likes this

Do not ask why you serve.  Only ask how.

 

Synonymous names include: Buried in Ferrets, Enveloped by Ermine.

Currently GMing a Dark Heresy 2.0 game and inflicting untold misery upon Martin Lockheed and company.


#32 borithan

borithan

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,257 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:27 AM

On other systems with similar resources (Savage Worlds, the Buffy RPG) I have never had an problem spending these resources. I think the thing is that Dark Heresy is such a deadly system that the idea of rerolling dodges and parries etc is pretty much what I find myself saving them for. Savage Worlds can be really deadly (surprise attack by tree dwelling evil puma killing my character in one round of combat... ow!), but generally gives you a little more chance to save yourself from being killed. Therefore the bennies in that see a little more use for non-survival stuff.



#33 Captain Erf

Captain Erf

    Member

  • Members
  • 41 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:26 AM

My experience is the same – people save fate points for failed dodge rolls. PCs don’t think about healing until they’ve taken critical damage –which they can’t heal with fate. But even if they had healed in time, the 1d5 probably wouldn’t have made enough difference to prevent going down from the next hit. Occasionally someone might re-roll a failed test out of frustration (usually an attack), but that usually comes back to bite them in their posteriorum as they invariably will be out of fate points when they really need them – ie to reroll a dodge.

 

However, it seems many people may have missed a crucial change to the fate point system in second edition. GMs can now award (temporary) fate points instantly during a session to reward such thing as good roleplaying or problemsolving. And since a player cannot have more fate points than his threshold, a bonus point would go to waste unless a player had already spend some. So this may encourage players to spend their fate points more freely.

 

It’s somewhat similar to the style points in the charming Hollow Earth Expedition RPG, where a player receives a style point for doing something cool, which he can then spend to boost a dice roll. In HEX, there’s a constant back and forth dynamic with style points (best represented with poker chips – it’s a pulp setting) flying around the table. I doubt it fate points will have the same dynamic, since they are more valuable than style points, but at least there’s some incentive to spend them IF the GM remembers to hand them out as well!



#34 Magnus Grendel

Magnus Grendel

    The Empire Needs You!

  • Members
  • 1,397 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:30 AM

However, it seems many people may have missed a crucial change to the fate point system in second edition. GMs can now award (temporary) fate points instantly during a session to reward such thing as good roleplaying or problemsolving. And since a player cannot have more fate points than his threshold, a bonus point would go to waste unless a player had already spend some. So this may encourage players to spend their fate points more freely.

 

Ah Hah!

 

Good call. I shall bear this in mind






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS