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It's time to ban C3P0


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#41 Explosive Ewok

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:05 PM

 

 

if you guess 0, you either get your natural evade and not c3po's, or you get c3po's. Combined with falcon title thats 2 100% evades per turn.

How is that 2 100% evades per turn?  MF title just adds Evade to your action bar. 

 

I don't play tournies, and I own a printer, my solutions are as follows:

 

"C3PO comes with a $90 (msrp) ship.  If you wanna spend that for one freaking card, go ahead stupid"

 

or

 

"you can't guess 0 evades"

 

Can't guess 0? Is that an official ruling?

 

 

No, not an official rule, just a house rule.

 

0 is a number, so it's totally legal.

 

Porkchop however is not a number. Don't guess porkchop.


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#42 Ghaerdon

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:06 PM

Can we ban questioning the intelligence of the designers?
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Rebels: 4 X Wings; 3 B Wings; 2 A Wings; 2 Y Wings; 2 E Wing; 5 z95; 1 YT-1300; 2 HWK-290; GR-75; Tantive
Empire: 7 Tie Fighters; 3 Tie Interceptors; 2 Tie Bombers; 1 Tie Advanced; 2 Firespray-31; 2 Lambda Shuttles; 2 Tie Defender; 2 Tie Phantom
Scum: (will be getting ... 2 Most Wanted; 2 StarViper; 2 IG-2000; 4 M3-A)

#43 Buhallin

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:07 PM

 

You do realize that neither a Fat Han nor a Phantom Miniswarm won the big GenCon tournament, right?  

 

Yes, the Fat Han build was only second.  And only had 5 of the top 8.

 

What is up with this absolute obsession that it's only possible for a build to be an issue after it's won one of two annual events?


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#44 Mattador Actual

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:07 PM

 

I've suggested two possible fixes in other threads but I'll post them again here.

 

1) Can't guess 0 for evades

2) Can't be used on a ship with MF title

 

The second option doesn't make much sense lore wise, so option 1 is probably better. 

This is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time.  It's right up there with "If she's on top, she can't get pregnant."

 

Note: I'm not saying that you've ever said the she's on top statement.

 

Well then, you cock, what do you have to add to the discussion?


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#45 Lagomorphia

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:11 PM

I trust FFG over backseat designers.

 

People complain if their list exactly the way they build it and exactly the way they play it doesn't beat everything, those things that beat it are broken. Adapt your squad and adapt your flying: this is a balanced game but of course you'll lose if you fly like it's Wave I.


Edited by Lagomorphia, 27 August 2014 - 01:12 PM.

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#46 Budgernaut

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:13 PM

I still fly like it's Wave I.


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#47 Khyros

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:17 PM

The problem is that both of those lists are massive extremes and winning one might mean losing to the other.


Here's a question. Who actually can fight a phantom with a suboptimal build against it? What build did you use (and why it's bad against the phantom)? And how did you fly to overcome that?

 

I went 4-0 against Phantoms at Gencon with the following list:

 

Roark w/ ICT

Dagger w/ HLC

Blackmoon w/ FCS + R3A2

Bandit

 

It's not necessarily a suboptimal list, but it's far from it's hard counter.  Furthermore, it holds its own against Fat Han (though my only fight at Nationals against a Fat Han was vs. Paul Heaver, where I lost, but it was much closer than the score would suggest).  Anndd... it holds its own against swarms too.  

 

It's almost like I threw the meta out of the box for a moment and created a list I wanted to fly, and then shored up its weaknesses... And go figure, it did a damn good job at handling whatever was thrown at me.  And it was fun to fly.


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The fleet:  

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#48 Lagomorphia

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:20 PM

I still fly like it's Wave I.

 

But you don't scream "BROKEN" and demand house rules and bans.



#49 nikk whyte

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:23 PM

I've been involved in this game since may, about when the tantive hit and 3PO became available and I've yet to fly against one.

I've never even flown against a PROXY.

I play anywhere from 2-5 games a week with multiple people, and not once HAVE I EVEN FOUGHT A FALCON. My current best list (7-1) is pre-wave 4.


So no, the falcon is so far from the problem that Greedo's unmarked grave behind the cantina already has a broken speeder bike on it.
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Current fleet:
Rebel: x-wing, y-wing, HWK-290, yt-1300, e-wing, z-95

Imperial: 2 tie fighters, 2 interceptors, tie phantom, tie advanced, firespray


#50 DarthSidious

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:23 PM

I know I'm going to need a flame-retardant suit to post in here, but I think FFG has somewhat put themselves in a tough spot with the 3PO card. It's probably the only thing in they game that they've done that has left a sour taste in my mouth (which isn't too bad given the amount of time the game has been out and the amount of variation in the game). I should also say that I primarily play Rebels and love the Falcon, so this isn't merely sour grapes from an Imp player. If you own a Tantive, then it really feels like 3PO is an auto-include these days. I don't think this is directly comparable to ACD for two reasons 1) you're forced to buy the Tantive to get 3PO, which is downright mean of FFG for reasons that have been covered before on the forum, and 2) 3PO pretty much makes the Chewie crew card obsolete since it's better in almost all circumstances and cheaper to boot. I do wish they would either disallow it for non-epic play (since it comes with an epic ship) or nerf it so you can't guess 0.

 

Of course, you realize that you're forced to buy the TIE Phantom to get the ACD card, right?  There was nothing mean about packaging C3P0 in the Tantive IV; either it's worth spending the money or it's not.  FFG isn't forcing you to do anything.  You could check out CSI or MM and get them cheaper, or find a place that sells the cards individually.  Guessing 0 evades doesn't result in automatic anything.


Rebels: 3xX-Wing, 2xB-Wing, 2xA-Wing, 1xY-Wing, 1xYT-1300, 1xHWK-290, 1xCR90, 2xE-Wing, 2xZ-95

Empire: 6xTIE Fighter, 2xTIE Advanced, 1xLambda Shuttle, 2xTIE Interceptor, 3xImperial Aces, 4xTIE Bomber, 1xFirespray-31, 2xTIE Defender, 2xTIE Phantom

 

'Loose' is when your pants are three sizes too big.  'Lose' is when your defense dice come up blanks.


#51 Buhallin

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:29 PM

 

Of course, you realize that you're forced to buy the TIE Phantom to get the ACD card, right?  There was nothing mean about packaging C3P0 in the Tantive IV; either it's worth spending the money or it's not.  FFG isn't forcing you to do anything.  You could check out CSI or MM and get them cheaper, or find a place that sells the cards individually.  Guessing 0 evades doesn't result in automatic anything.

 

Whether I agree with the OP or not, this is a poor, uninformed effort at bashing him.

 

You get Advanced Cloaking Device with the only ship that's going to use it.  You get C-3PO in a box with a ship he's borderline useless with.  "worth spending the money" is not $15, it's $90.  You're right, he's not forced to buy it - but I think a lot of people are very uncomfortable with the "Pay to Win" feeling coming from C-3PO right now.  The Corvette is a VERY expensive SKU that a lot of people don't really want, and watching such a meta-influencing card come out of it is disturbing.  And yes, guessing zero evades does actually result in an automatic evade.


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#52 Nataris

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:30 PM

Its not OP and doesn't need a ban.

However, wave 6 sure as hell better bring the strong counters to the super falcons. Every other ship/list type has had multiple counters released in a short time span. Its the turret ships chance to be within the crosshairs for once.

Not everyone runs swarms and shouldn't have to just to stand a chance against a list.

Edited by Nataris, 27 August 2014 - 08:10 PM.

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#53 nikk whyte

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:31 PM

I'll say again. The meta isn't really bother by 3PO.

or is atlanta just way different from the gaming community?

Current fleet:
Rebel: x-wing, y-wing, HWK-290, yt-1300, e-wing, z-95

Imperial: 2 tie fighters, 2 interceptors, tie phantom, tie advanced, firespray


#54 nikk whyte

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:33 PM

Jesus do you guys even play this game? You beat a list by splitting it.

You eschew ships that require synergy and you run solo fighters that can handle their own.

Current fleet:
Rebel: x-wing, y-wing, HWK-290, yt-1300, e-wing, z-95

Imperial: 2 tie fighters, 2 interceptors, tie phantom, tie advanced, firespray


#55 Buhallin

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:34 PM

I'll say again. The meta isn't really bother by 3PO.

or is atlanta just way different from the gaming community?

Meta is usually local.  I ran an event last weekend that had a dozen players and not a single Falcon, much less a Fat one.

 

But that doesn't mean it's not a problem anywhere.  The San Diego regional a few months back (pre-3PO) had 24 players, and 21 were Rebels running Falcons or B-wings.  It's nice that you don't have to deal with it, but there are people who ARE dealing with it, and it's really not fun.


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#56 TheTuninator

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:35 PM

The problem is that both of those lists are massive extremes and winning one might mean losing to the other.
Here's a question. Who actually can fight a phantom with a suboptimal build against it? What build did you use (and why it's bad against the phantom)? And how did you fly to overcome that?

 
I went 4-0 against Phantoms at Gencon with the following list:
 
Roark w/ ICT
Dagger w/ HLC
Blackmoon w/ FCS + R3A2
Bandit
 
It's not necessarily a suboptimal list, but it's far from it's hard counter.  Furthermore, it holds its own against Fat Han (though my only fight at Nationals against a Fat Han was vs. Paul Heaver, where I lost, but it was much closer than the score would suggest).  Anndd... it holds its own against swarms too.  
 
It's almost like I threw the meta out of the box for a moment and created a list I wanted to fly, and then shored up its weaknesses... And go figure, it did a damn good job at handling whatever was thrown at me.  And it was fun to fly.

Excellent points! It's easy for people to forget that the current meta is just that. People will gravitate towards what's popular. Doesn't make it broken.

#57 FTS Gecko

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:36 PM

This one again?  So after we ban C3P0 and Advanced Cloaking Devices, where will that put us?

 

Then we ban the Boost card.  And any ship which uses Boost.


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Badges?  We don't need no stinkin' badges!


#58 VanorDM

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:38 PM

Whether I agree with the OP or not


I agree with you Buhallin... I don't think 3-CPO needs to be banned, but the OP is taking way more heat then he should for saying so.

If people have a logical rational argument to make why 3-CPO isn't OP'ed they should make it, but posts like "Oh look the sky is falling again" is neither helpful, pleasant or fits in the general "fly casual" attitude so many espouse as being a part of this community.

Myself I don't think 3-CPO is an issue, because he at best gives you 1 evade a turn, and a 3 point crew that lets you evade 1 damage doesn't seem to be that OP.
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#59 Joe Boss Red Seven

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:40 PM

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ALLIANCE: [A-WING: 3][B-WING: 3][E-WING: 3][HWK-290: 2][X-WING: 6][Y-WING: 5][Z-95: 6][YT-1300: 1][YT-2400: ] EMPIRE: [TIE ADVANCED: 1][TIE BOMBER: 3][TIE DEFENDER: 3][TIE FIGHTER: 5][TIE INTERCEPTOR: 6][TIE PHANTOM: 3][DECIMATOR: ][FIRESPRAY-31: ][SHUTTLE-LAMBDA: 1] SCUM: [FIRESPRAY-31: 1][HWK-290: 3][IG-2000: ][M3-A: ][STAR VIPER: ][Y-WING: 1][Z-95: ]


#60 gekigangerv

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:41 PM

 

 

I've suggested two possible fixes in other threads but I'll post them again here.

 

1) Can't guess 0 for evades

2) Can't be used on a ship with MF title

 

The second option doesn't make much sense lore wise, so option 1 is probably better. 

This is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time.  It's right up there with "If she's on top, she can't get pregnant."

 

Note: I'm not saying that you've ever said the she's on top statement.

 

Well then, you cock, what do you have to add to the discussion?

 

It's a whole lot better than your suggestion of "you can't guess 0 evades".  What's the point of a card where you can guess your outcome, if your most likely option of two choices can't be chosen?  After all, there isn't always going to be a R3 shot or an asteroid shot coming at you.

 

It just looks like you've got your panties in a wad because you don't want to find a way to overcome a new facet of the game.






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