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So I may need to put down our Assault Marine...


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#1 Gavmando

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 11:39 PM

Heya peoples.

 

So. In our kill team we have:

An Imperial Fist Librarian,

A Black Sheild Tac Marine,

A Grey Knight,

A Vindicare Assassin,

A Raptors Tac Marine (me, squad leader),

An Apothocary of unknown chapter (he only joined us last session so we havent had much time to get to know him yet),

And lastly, a Storm Warden Assault Marine.

 

Now, our assault marine is starting to become a bit of a problem. In our first mission he dissapeared up a stair case after he had been told to stay with the team, did his own mission which as far as any of us know, wasnt sanctioned or for the good of the Imperium, and somehow appeared behind a shroud of dark energy working on a computer with a dead Alpha Legionary. When asked how and what happened, he was non-commital and vague.

After it happened my character slipped into a coma due to his injuries, (fire really hurts,) and had a vision from what I assumed to be the Emperor who told my character that one of our kill team was going bad.

 

And now on our current mission, the assault marine was injured by Tyranids. When my character went back to get him, his body had dissapeared from where he had fallen and despite my character searching for him, couldnt be found.

When we later re-grouped, the assault marine came jogging in from the desert with no injuries. When asked how he had gotten away from the Nids, he was non-commital and vague again. And my character also rolled one degree of sucess on his perception test and had a very strong feeling that he was lying and couldnt be trusted.

 

So, my main question out of all this is; If it comes down to it, what would be the best way for my character to kill the assault marine?

 

I already have the assassin ready to pop a bullet in his head if I order him to. But if it comes down to a one on one fight, what tactics should I use? His character is very good in hand to hand where my character isnt really that great unless he's wearing his armour. (+10 WS Gauntlets of Xirion.) And whilst my character is pretty good with his bolter, his character would be on him before I could finish him with bolt rounds. I'm pretty sure the Grey Knight would help if I can prove that he's gone heretic. But right now all my character has is a feeling.

 

Out of game, the guy playing the assault marine has said that there's a good chance his character is either going to get killed by something, or one of the other guys in the team is going to have to kill him.

The guys I play with also play Black Crusade. So even in Deathwatch they dont really work as a team. They all want to be one man armies. Which is very frustrating. An example of this is when my character ran back into the invading Nids to pull the injured Librarian out, and the guys around the table said, "Why are you going back for him? Dont you remember that he's the one who set you on fire last mission?" (I did it because it's this weird thing called "Teamwork")

Really, I dont want to kill him. I want my team to act like a team and stop all this cloak and daggers bullcrap. It's affecting our missions and it's taking up too much of our game time. We have enough to worry about without having to constantly watch our backs from our own guys. But if I need to kill him, then so be it.

 

Thoughts?



#2 Fgdsfg

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 02:30 AM

1) That's one hell of a strange mix of people you've got there.
2) Take it up with the Watch-Captain once you're back at base, tell him your fears. For all your character knows, what he is doing is dodgy but entirely legit, sent on special assignments that you are not supposed to know about.
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#3 DeathByGrotz

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 03:32 AM

He's being extremely unsubtle.

 

Report to the local chain of command. He is being EXTREMELY unsubtle. They should deal with it.


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#4 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 06:01 AM

1.Duels are also a great way to resolve team differences.  

2.Learning to work as a team are at the heart of the cohesion mechanics.

3. Apothecaries regularly check team members for corruption.  While there is a bit of sworn to secrecy about an individuals results, you can work that into your RP. 


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#5 Visitor Q

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 02:53 PM

I think even a Raptor wouldn't put a bullit in the back of a fellow marines head mafioso style save in the most dire of circumstances. 

 

Therefore if you have a real issue with the marine a duel is probably going to be the best bet.  But as mentioned in character it is more likely you could simply refuse to work alongside the Marine. 

 

However out of character it is likely that the PC and the Gamesmaster have concocted some sub plot concerning the assault marine.  Judging from the team roster the GM is very tolerant of PCs having their own completly unique backstory so it wouldn't surprise me if the assault marine was an Alpha Legion marine or a Dark Angel Fallen.  I would suggest you will get the most fun out of the game if you try and solve the mystery in character rather than meta game it.

 

After all at the moment the assault marine hasn't done anything overtly heretical (although of course you are well within your rights to act on your premonitions ).  It would definitly be in character for you to talk to your Chaplain.


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#6 Gavmando

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:17 PM

1) That's one hell of a strange mix of people you've got there.
2) Take it up with the Watch-Captain once you're back at base, tell him your fears. For all your character knows, what he is doing is dodgy but entirely legit, sent on special assignments that you are not supposed to know about.

 

1. Yep. Personally I dont think our GM should have let the dude play as an assassin. Since he had about 13k of experience to spend to get him up to a space marine standard, his guy passes pretty much every test he attempts as all of his stats are maxed out. The assassin ran once ran about 200m in 2 seconds. He's way overpowered and is a completly unbalanced character.

2. I had thought of that. It's something i'll do if we survive our mission. We have a tendancy to barely make it through alive. I had to burn 2 fate points in our last mission. Which also happened to be our first mission too.

 

He's being extremely unsubtle.

 

Report to the local chain of command. He is being EXTREMELY unsubtle. They should deal with it.

 

Only problem with this is that our GM will basically tell us to deal with it. Essentially the end destination for this course of action is the player having to create a new character. And I really doubt that the GM will be forcing him to do that.

 

1.Duels are also a great way to resolve team differences.  

2.Learning to work as a team are at the heart of the cohesion mechanics.

3. Apothecaries regularly check team members for corruption.  While there is a bit of sworn to secrecy about an individuals results, you can work that into your RP. 

 

1. Not something I really want to do. He's an assault marine, and a pretty good one at that, and i'm a tactical marine who's good with a gun. He'll kick my arse.

2. That's what i'm trying to teach the other members of the team!

3. Good idea. I had thought of that one too. And if we survive, i'll quietly get it done. We lost our last apothocary to a squad of Stigmartis with high intensity flash lights and we've only just gotten a new one.

 

I think even a Raptor wouldn't put a bullit in the back of a fellow marines head mafioso style save in the most dire of circumstances. 

 

Therefore if you have a real issue with the marine a duel is probably going to be the best bet.  But as mentioned in character it is more likely you could simply refuse to work alongside the Marine. 

 

However out of character it is likely that the PC and the Gamesmaster have concocted some sub plot concerning the assault marine.  Judging from the team roster the GM is very tolerant of PCs having their own completly unique backstory so it wouldn't surprise me if the assault marine was an Alpha Legion marine or a Dark Angel Fallen.  I would suggest you will get the most fun out of the game if you try and solve the mystery in character rather than meta game it.

 

After all at the moment the assault marine hasn't done anything overtly heretical (although of course you are well within your rights to act on your premonitions ).  It would definitly be in character for you to talk to your Chaplain.

 

I'm pretty sure that they do have a scheme concocted for the assault marine, but it's just annoying. It takes time and energy away from the rest of the team and is inhibiting our character growth. We're having to pour all this time into one guys personal story line and it is simply not fair to the other players. It would probably be ok if we had more information and we were actually working to solve the problem. But he plays his cards close to his chest which really draws this thing out. Either stop this personal story line, or hurry up and let us solve it so that we can start to move forward as a team. The game is not about one person!

 

I also have another theory in regards to the vision from the Emperor.

The assault marine isnt actually going bad. Everything he's doing is sanctioned. The real threat is the Black Sheild, and all this stuff is designed to make us look in the wrong direction.

If this is the case, then that's bloody annoying too! We should be focusing on the missions and forging a team! Not investigating our own!

 

(Can you tell i'm frustrated?)



#7 DeathByGrotz

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:34 PM

If the inquisitorial command of your branch tells you to "deal with it", then hand it over to the group's assassin.


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#8 Visitor Q

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 02:26 AM



 

 


 

 

 

1.Duels are also a great way to resolve team differences.  

you can work that into your RP. 

 

1. Not something I really want to do. He's an assault marine, and a pretty good one at that, and i'm a tactical marine who's good with a gun. He'll kick my arse.

 

Depends on the rules of the duel of course.....

 

 

 

 

 

I think even a Raptor wouldn't put a bullit in the back of a fellow marines head mafioso style save in the most dire of circumstances. 

 

Therefore if you have a real issue with the marine a duel is probably going to be the best bet.  But as mentioned in character it is more likely you could simply refuse to work alongside the Marine. 

 

However out of character it is likely that the PC and the Gamesmaster have concocted some sub plot concerning the assault marine.  Judging from the team roster the GM is very tolerant of PCs having their own completly unique backstory so it wouldn't surprise me if the assault marine was an Alpha Legion marine or a Dark Angel Fallen.  I would suggest you will get the most fun out of the game if you try and solve the mystery in character rather than meta game it.

 

After all at the moment the assault marine hasn't done anything overtly heretical (although of course you are well within your rights to act on your premonitions ).  It would definitly be in character for you to talk to your Chaplain.

 

Gavmando said:

I'm pretty sure that they do have a scheme concocted for the assault marine, but it's just annoying. It takes time and energy away from the rest of the team and is inhibiting our character growth. We're having to pour all this time into one guys personal story line and it is simply not fair to the other players. It would probably be ok if we had more information and we were actually working to solve the problem. But he plays his cards close to his chest which really draws this thing out. Either stop this personal story line, or hurry up and let us solve it so that we can start to move forward as a team. The game is not about one person!

 

I also have another theory in regards to the vision from the Emperor.

The assault marine isnt actually going bad. Everything he's doing is sanctioned. The real threat is the Black Sheild, and all this stuff is designed to make us look in the wrong direction.

If this is the case, then that's bloody annoying too! We should be focusing on the missions and forging a team! Not investigating our own!

 

(Can you tell i'm frustrated?)

 

 

I think this is definitly an issue of group expectations of what the focus of the game should be and there needs to be a group disscussion about it.

 

The GM might see the missions as somewhat secondary to the non combat role play side of the game. Especially given the group line up, he might think that the missions are a forgone conclusion and is more interested in the cool story that the assault marine has.  Which in turn might be an indication that the GM is bored with the dynamic of the team.

 

EDIT trying to format this post went all strange...


Edited by Visitor Q, 26 August 2014 - 10:36 AM.

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#9 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:18 AM

As a devastator, i sympathise with the dueling comment.  So i went with bolt pistols at 10 paces, first blood.


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#10 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:46 AM

Unfortunately the tradition is normally for the challengee to choose weapons where there's a choice.

 

I'd have a quiet word with the watch-captain.



#11 javcs

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 11:48 AM

Take your concerns your Watch-Captain, quietly. And the Watch-Chaplains, and possibly the DW Librarium. Get your entire team discretely scanned repeatedly and monitored continuously.

 

 

If you determine that the "Storm Warden" is not a friendly, don't bother with a duel, if you can, pretend not to notice right away, then execute while he's sleeping, if possible, if not wait for him to get a distance away (outside of charge range) and looking away, then surprise round him in the back. Do not fight fair if you can avoid it.

 

Get with the Grey Knight and the Vindicare for sure, with at least some of your concerns, possibly the Imperial Fist as well. Get them watching his behavior, and have a series of code-phrases that means he's crossed a line, terminate him immediately - and have a plan for that - with a different code phrase for targeting each member of the kill team. Obviously, the code phrase for targeting the Grey Knight shouldn't be shared with him, ditto for the code phrase for the Vindicare, or anyone else who is in on it, unless you only have the two of them in on it, and use the same code phrase, and just shoot whichever is the real target - if you have more than just the two of them in on it, consider using different phrases for those in on it, or just one one code phrase with the meaning terminate the kill team member I shoot at. Possibly a set of code phrases that mean incapacitate/capture if possible instead of terminate, in addition to the kill-orders.

If you want to be really paranoid, talk to the Watch Armorers and Forgemasters about implanting a hidden killswitch in their armor next time it's in their hands for required maintenance rituals, or a concealed remote charge, or with the Watch Apothecary to hidden charges in them or add subliminal code phrase orders to immobilize or whatever like the Bene Gesserit did in Dune, the next time it is possible.

 

 

 

On the teamwork, or lack thereof, talk to the other players and the GM about it, out of character, and in-universe, a kill-team that doesn't cooperate and work together when it needs to isn't going to stay together as a kill-team very long. It'll either end up dead or broken up with the members assigned elsewhere if the internal problems cannot be resolved.


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#12 Hiro Protagonist

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 01:48 PM

@javcs - when did DW devolve into an episode of Big Brother in SPAAACE?!! Granted, player actions ARE up to the player, but this is meta gaming to the nth degree. Deathwatch teams are just that. You have suspicions about a comrade (even well founded ones), you prove them before aerating a brother marine's noggin. And you sure has hell don't do it in his sleep. That's BC modus operandi.

Yes, you do have a Grey Knight and an Imperial Assassin handy to make the issue disappear, but is that how your Raptor resolves issues? Sounds like the gm and storm warden DO have a story. If so, fine. The character is allowed to play it to the chest, especially if there's a plot in mind. Have you considered that the gm may be building something bigger, involving all of you? As a GM, I've done that many a time. Yes, a character has gotten a fair bit of screen time, but at the same time, I was conscious of this and did get all of my players on the hook. If that's a concern, address it with the gm, out of game. Don't whack a team mate out of frustration with story pacing. That will either scuttle the game or your involvement. Your watch captain is the right way to go. If the GM says deal then, you've got problems and those need to be discussed. The gm may have created the story, but you do have a say in how it plays out.

For my two cents, I'd LOVE to see how this story plays out. There are a lot of VERY disparate backgrounds in this group - lots of potential for story and conflict. Maybe that's your gm's thought too. Ask. But if this game is turning into Black Crusade in less pointy armor then that has to be fixed, unless that's the consensus for the group. In which case, you may need to alter your style, or move on.

Anywho, good luck! Nice to see a Leader actuAlly trying to, you know, lead!

#13 Robin Graves

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 02:10 PM

Wait until you and him are alone and he has his back to you, then say "hey, Alpharius!" If he responds shoot him in the head. :)


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#14 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 03:00 PM

you could also call him out as a liar publicly.  When he mysteriously comes back unscathed, call BS on his story.  Force the issue.



#15 DeathByGrotz

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:27 PM

The assassin isn't merely there to make the issue "disappear", btw. Of the entire kill team, they are the only member even remotely qualified to investigate the issue. They can make the skill checks to tail the suspect, otherwise investigate him when he's not around (searching his quarters off the books would be the first thing I'd do given the chance) and determine if there actually is an issue or not. If there is one, they have the tools at hand to fix it from a safe distance, as well. By the time the marine even gets in range to fire back at an exitus rifle, he will be extremely dead, if he's a traitor.


Edited by DeathByGrotz, 26 August 2014 - 10:28 PM.


#16 Visitor Q

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:09 AM

There is a political side to this as well of course
if a Storm Warden gets killed his Chapter will want to know what happened. If you don't have the support of your superiors then it will be difficult to cover up. There are a number of references in the books to power armour being able to record events. OOC this kind of thing creates all kinds of meta
gaming. I mean is the player going to sit back and take it? What if his next character is an Inquisitor sent to investigate the death?

Edited by Visitor Q, 27 August 2014 - 01:11 AM.


#17 javcs

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:03 AM

@javcs - when did DW devolve into an episode of Big Brother in SPAAACE?!! Granted, player actions ARE up to the player, but this is meta gaming to the nth degree. Deathwatch teams are just that. You have suspicions about a comrade (even well founded ones), you prove them before aerating a brother marine's noggin. And you sure has hell don't do it in his sleep. That's BC modus operandi.

Yes, you do have a Grey Knight and an Imperial Assassin handy to make the issue disappear, but is that how your Raptor resolves issues? Sounds like the gm and storm warden DO have a story. If so, fine. The character is allowed to play it to the chest, especially if there's a plot in mind. Have you considered that the gm may be building something bigger, involving all of you? As a GM, I've done that many a time. Yes, a character has gotten a fair bit of screen time, but at the same time, I was conscious of this and did get all of my players on the hook. If that's a concern, address it with the gm, out of game. Don't whack a team mate out of frustration with story pacing. That will either scuttle the game or your involvement. Your watch captain is the right way to go. If the GM says deal then, you've got problems and those need to be discussed. The gm may have created the story, but you do have a say in how it plays out.

For my two cents, I'd LOVE to see how this story plays out. There are a lot of VERY disparate backgrounds in this group - lots of potential for story and conflict. Maybe that's your gm's thought too. Ask. But if this game is turning into Black Crusade in less pointy armor then that has to be fixed, unless that's the consensus for the group. In which case, you may need to alter your style, or move on.

Anywho, good luck! Nice to see a Leader actuAlly trying to, you know, lead!

I did specify going to the Watch-Captain first. That's the first step.

 

Also, I got the distinct impression that the "Storm Warden" was not acting as part of the Team.

Besides, most of what I said is contingency planning - stuff he will hopefully not need to use, but it is better to be prepared against a suspected threat than to do nothing. In addition, one would, presumably, only activate the termination contingency orders in the event of obtaining solid evidence of treachery and in a situation that required immediate action, otherwise, one could incapacitate/capture and return with captive to the Watch-Station/Fortress - or wait until returning before acting.

Capping him in his sleep is something that would presumably be done only if absolutely necessary, and would absolutely require documented evidence, and would be a last choice, probably, as if he's sleeping, he can probably be captured instead, and their superiors would want justification - but remember, the OP asked for ideas about how to put down/take out the assault marine if he truly needed to, and stated that the assault marine getting to melee would go badly for him. Distasteful for an Astartes to do something that sneaky, certainly, but in this case possibly necessary/justifiable. Without more information that neither we nor the OP have, as the only ones who know are the GM and the assault marine player, we can't do more than speculate.

 

 

One thing you probably should do is task the Vindicare with stealthing along behind him and recording his activities and communications the next time the SW goes off on his own.



#18 Hiro Protagonist

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 09:47 AM

@javcs I'm sorry. I did not see the addressing the issue with Watch Captain. I've reviewed your original post. I do agree whole heartedly with your comment on teamwork and when it doesn't happen. I DO understand contingency plans, but you are suggesting having apothecaries and forge masters build kill switches and marines assassinate each other in their sleep. Realistically, yes I can see a Vindicare assigned to do so. I can see a Grey Knight and their insane zealotry killing a traitor on suspicion alone and call it caution and likely, duty coz they're complicated like that. I can't see this being standard fare for a DW Kill Team leader, honestly even if proven. I can see the higher ups of the DW requesting capture and interrogation, with termination as the last resort. You don't learn anything from a dead guy. However, I do also realize that the DW is at the service of the inquisition and as such, dirty deeds get done sometimes. Even so, my take on this is that this be resolved carefully. The OP does want recommendations to deal with the Assault Marine - as the leader, prior to doing so, it's his duty to prove any wrongdoing and act in the best interests of the Deathwatch, which includes doing this cleanly. Visitor Q makes an excellent point. The Storm Wardens are a Chapter steeped in honour. You off one of their marines, they're gonna ask MANY questions, especially in light of a question of sedition and the wake of the Nemesis incident. They don't like the answers, they are not so far from the Jericho Reach that they could not take some serious action. Does the Kill Team lead want that on his shoulders?

#19 Visitor Q

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:53 AM

The storm wardens simply refusing to provide any more troops to the deathwatch would be bad enough.

#20 Kamikazzijoe

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 11:32 AM

You could always convince the medic to include truth serum in his next heal check on the SW.






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