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Rogue Trader 2.0?

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#1 Gamgee



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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:16 AM

Is this next? If so I would be looking forward to it.

#2 Fgdsfg



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Posted 24 August 2014 - 04:47 AM

I'm still hoping for them to scrap the "2" idea for all the lines and simply go for a unified approach similar to how they are doing the Star Wars RPG, except with a single major rulebook and then campaign settings to support it.

Even if it means scrapping DH2. :|
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#3 Gamgee



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Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:07 PM

I wouldn't mind that, but so far DH 2's rules are extremely consistent with Only Wars. The only notable difference I see is maybe some changes to weapon qualities and armor now has a maximum agility for certain armors. If they don't do unified though. I would be looking forward to Rogue Trader 2.0 anyways.


I hope they learned from the over powered and broken gameplay of DW 1 when they go back and visit RT and later DW.

Edited by Gamgee, 24 August 2014 - 02:07 PM.

#4 Marwynn



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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:03 PM

I think it's time I familiarize myself fully with OW's rules. We're considering a reboot of our RT campaign anyway.

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#5 Gamgee



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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:30 PM

If you want the newest version of the system only. Then Dark Heresy 2.0. It includes some minor but interesting balances. Armor now has maximum agility associated with many armors.

#6 Blood Pact

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 12:09 AM

I'm still hoping for them to scrap the "2" idea for all the lines and simply go for a unified approach similar to how they are doing the Star Wars RPG, except with a single major rulebook and then campaign settings to support it.

Even if it means scrapping DH2. :|


They did the same thing for the World of Darkness (And Exalted). Lemme tell you, a lot of people didn't like the idea of paying between $100-120 dollars for 2 books just to play 1 game. And it's a system that really only works for the people that want to play multiple lines. I find most people stick to 2 of the RPGs and don't diverge much from there.


Plus, I imagine one of the reasons it's been such a long time between DH 1.0 and 2.0 is because with each new game line they've been able to try out while new mechanical suites. It's all hindsight back-patting, of course, but if we'd been doing it the above way from the start, we might be still be using Dark Heresy psyker rules for every line, or instead talking about the upcoming release of 3.0 where they're finally letting you build your character freeform, with no career paths...



All that said, it would work better for 40K than Exalted or the WoD. Everyone Is (mostly) human, and the power a space marine wields isn't so different from the power an Inquisitor or other very powerful Imperial figure can eventually reach (power armour, other tech, and more unnatural means, can eventually even the odds). And another benefit would be it'd be easier to combine the stuff from different games as it would all be balanced against each other if they put the necessary work in, and we wouldn't end up with Dark Heresy characters bloated with skills when playing in a Rogue Trader game.



But frankly I don't think anything it brings to the table is worth the potential problems it can cause. With 5 gamelines worth of material, and a whole new sector for Dark Heresy, it would be a massive effort to collect everything in to a unified system that is built to work for everyone from space marines and chaos possessed warlords, to inquisitorial acolytes. And enemies bigger and smaller than all of them. And then there's equipment. Whether you put out a "book o' guns" or a book of "rogue trader gear", you're going to have to make sure it's not too powerful for the inquisition or only war players to use.


Frankly, I think the effort might be too much, and still not certain to produce suitable results. Exalted is kinda working with the same problem, they've been working on 3.0 for a long time now, presumably going back and ironing out any problems they find as they continue to work on more and more stuff (that is, they're laying the foundations for things other than Solars, so they don't deviate from the intended mark more than a little bit, if at all). But we're going to have an awesome RPG game some day, if it ever gets finished.


More to the point, I think the different systems work better for the different games. Deathwatch being much more high powered, and where you play characters that can soak up and deal out a lot of punishment either way, Unnatural stats being multiplicative instead of additive is the better option I think, and doesn't really present them as overpowered (Space Marines have been super-human killing machines since before 3e, which is how it's been since then). That said, I also find that the additive version is better for everything else, including where Space Marines and 'normal' humans are in the same game. And careers aren't that bad, for f's sake, in games where your character is coming from a pre-defined position it makes sense. And I find Only War and Deathwatch have found the perfect balance more or less. The multiple of paths that you can buy from in the latter offers practically the same amount of flexibility of the former, though I find the implementation of it requires less crosschecking.

#7 javcs



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Posted 25 August 2014 - 03:48 AM

They really should establish a unified system for most things - and if, for example, you're running an RT game, the RT versions either get Z amount of xp or a pregen starting package to bring them up to the nominal RT-character start point, sorta like they did with the DH Ascension character creation, the DW-level package would be mostly taken up by the Space Marine modifications. You could also more easily integrate the play of xenos and abhuman characters, by determining that their racial characteristics beyond the approximate human baseline are roughly worth/equivalent to Y amount of xp.


Sure, include the base rules with each game/setting's core book, if you must, along with the game/setting specific ones (where necessary/appropriate), but actually make them compatible with one another. Look at RT and ships - that's something that would be appropriate in basically any of the others (at the appropriate level), but they left out some of the parts that would let you actually do that.

Although, I think that treating it a bit more like D&D 3.x/compatible d20rpg or GURPS would be better in the long term (I gather that's approximately what is being done with FFG's Star Wars line). Then you could roll out with stuff not just from late M41, because GW won't advance the timeline, but field sourcebooks for the Great Crusade, Horus Heresy (and aftermath), Vandire's reign of blood, etc - all sorts of stuff. Actually, this might be a bit more like ye olde Star Wars d20 from WotC took to issuing sourcebooks.

The core book (call it DH) would be the basic classes/careers - guardsman, cleric, adept, tech-priest, psyker, etc. The RT supplement would include Navigators, ships, RT-specific alternate/advanced careers, etc. The DW supplement would include the playable Astartes rules, DW/Astartes-specific careers, maybe include a sampling of Astartes/DW starships, etc.


I'm not sure if I prefer careers to the aptitude system. They both have upsides and downsides. Perhaps some sort of combination, where the aptitude system applies to taking advances that are not on your career's table/list.


The price argument against multiple books isn't exactly appropriately targeted - the issue isn't the two books themselves are/is a bad idea, the issue is that the books are pricey for the amount of content being provided.

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