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Rogue Trader 2.0?


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#1 Gamgee

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:16 AM

Is this next? If so I would be looking forward to it.



#2 Fgdsfg

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 04:47 AM

I'm still hoping for them to scrap the "2" idea for all the lines and simply go for a unified approach similar to how they are doing the Star Wars RPG, except with a single major rulebook and then campaign settings to support it.

Even if it means scrapping DH2. :|
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#3 Gamgee

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:07 PM

I wouldn't mind that, but so far DH 2's rules are extremely consistent with Only Wars. The only notable difference I see is maybe some changes to weapon qualities and armor now has a maximum agility for certain armors. If they don't do unified though. I would be looking forward to Rogue Trader 2.0 anyways.

 

I hope they learned from the over powered and broken gameplay of DW 1 when they go back and visit RT and later DW.


Edited by Gamgee, 24 August 2014 - 02:07 PM.


#4 Marwynn

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:03 PM

I think it's time I familiarize myself fully with OW's rules. We're considering a reboot of our RT campaign anyway.


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#5 Gamgee

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:30 PM

If you want the newest version of the system only. Then Dark Heresy 2.0. It includes some minor but interesting balances. Armor now has maximum agility associated with many armors.



#6 Blood Pact

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 12:09 AM

I'm still hoping for them to scrap the "2" idea for all the lines and simply go for a unified approach similar to how they are doing the Star Wars RPG, except with a single major rulebook and then campaign settings to support it.

Even if it means scrapping DH2. :|

 

They did the same thing for the World of Darkness (And Exalted). Lemme tell you, a lot of people didn't like the idea of paying between $100-120 dollars for 2 books just to play 1 game. And it's a system that really only works for the people that want to play multiple lines. I find most people stick to 2 of the RPGs and don't diverge much from there.

 

Plus, I imagine one of the reasons it's been such a long time between DH 1.0 and 2.0 is because with each new game line they've been able to try out while new mechanical suites. It's all hindsight back-patting, of course, but if we'd been doing it the above way from the start, we might be still be using Dark Heresy psyker rules for every line, or instead talking about the upcoming release of 3.0 where they're finally letting you build your character freeform, with no career paths...

 

 

All that said, it would work better for 40K than Exalted or the WoD. Everyone Is (mostly) human, and the power a space marine wields isn't so different from the power an Inquisitor or other very powerful Imperial figure can eventually reach (power armour, other tech, and more unnatural means, can eventually even the odds). And another benefit would be it'd be easier to combine the stuff from different games as it would all be balanced against each other if they put the necessary work in, and we wouldn't end up with Dark Heresy characters bloated with skills when playing in a Rogue Trader game.

 

 

But frankly I don't think anything it brings to the table is worth the potential problems it can cause. With 5 gamelines worth of material, and a whole new sector for Dark Heresy, it would be a massive effort to collect everything in to a unified system that is built to work for everyone from space marines and chaos possessed warlords, to inquisitorial acolytes. And enemies bigger and smaller than all of them. And then there's equipment. Whether you put out a "book o' guns" or a book of "rogue trader gear", you're going to have to make sure it's not too powerful for the inquisition or only war players to use.

 

Frankly, I think the effort might be too much, and still not certain to produce suitable results. Exalted is kinda working with the same problem, they've been working on 3.0 for a long time now, presumably going back and ironing out any problems they find as they continue to work on more and more stuff (that is, they're laying the foundations for things other than Solars, so they don't deviate from the intended mark more than a little bit, if at all). But we're going to have an awesome RPG game some day, if it ever gets finished.

 

More to the point, I think the different systems work better for the different games. Deathwatch being much more high powered, and where you play characters that can soak up and deal out a lot of punishment either way, Unnatural stats being multiplicative instead of additive is the better option I think, and doesn't really present them as overpowered (Space Marines have been super-human killing machines since before 3e, which is how it's been since then). That said, I also find that the additive version is better for everything else, including where Space Marines and 'normal' humans are in the same game. And careers aren't that bad, for f's sake, in games where your character is coming from a pre-defined position it makes sense. And I find Only War and Deathwatch have found the perfect balance more or less. The multiple of paths that you can buy from in the latter offers practically the same amount of flexibility of the former, though I find the implementation of it requires less crosschecking.



#7 javcs

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 03:48 AM

They really should establish a unified system for most things - and if, for example, you're running an RT game, the RT versions either get Z amount of xp or a pregen starting package to bring them up to the nominal RT-character start point, sorta like they did with the DH Ascension character creation, the DW-level package would be mostly taken up by the Space Marine modifications. You could also more easily integrate the play of xenos and abhuman characters, by determining that their racial characteristics beyond the approximate human baseline are roughly worth/equivalent to Y amount of xp.

 

Sure, include the base rules with each game/setting's core book, if you must, along with the game/setting specific ones (where necessary/appropriate), but actually make them compatible with one another. Look at RT and ships - that's something that would be appropriate in basically any of the others (at the appropriate level), but they left out some of the parts that would let you actually do that.

Although, I think that treating it a bit more like D&D 3.x/compatible d20rpg or GURPS would be better in the long term (I gather that's approximately what is being done with FFG's Star Wars line). Then you could roll out with stuff not just from late M41, because GW won't advance the timeline, but field sourcebooks for the Great Crusade, Horus Heresy (and aftermath), Vandire's reign of blood, etc - all sorts of stuff. Actually, this might be a bit more like ye olde Star Wars d20 from WotC took to issuing sourcebooks.

The core book (call it DH) would be the basic classes/careers - guardsman, cleric, adept, tech-priest, psyker, etc. The RT supplement would include Navigators, ships, RT-specific alternate/advanced careers, etc. The DW supplement would include the playable Astartes rules, DW/Astartes-specific careers, maybe include a sampling of Astartes/DW starships, etc.

 

I'm not sure if I prefer careers to the aptitude system. They both have upsides and downsides. Perhaps some sort of combination, where the aptitude system applies to taking advances that are not on your career's table/list.

 

The price argument against multiple books isn't exactly appropriately targeted - the issue isn't the two books themselves are/is a bad idea, the issue is that the books are pricey for the amount of content being provided.


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#8 HeavensThunderHammer

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 04:58 PM

No rumblings I can find on the internet on when RT 2.0 will come out. Probably a year or two away?



#9 Traejun

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 11:13 PM

I haven't even seen RT 2ed mentioned... at all.  I'd be tickled pink if that was in the offing, but there's no evidence it is at this point.  Of course, feel free to make my day and correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm currently using an amalgamation of OW and BC ruled to attempt to hand-craft a makeshift RT 2ed, so we can move away from the passe rank system.


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#10 gdiddy

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 06:58 AM

How to Make Rogue Trader (2e!!!)

 

1. Skills and Talents

Let anyone buy any talent or skill, using their background as a guide. Seriously, you should be doing this anyway with elite advances, but there is a convoluted chart for pricing if you like that kind of thing, available in OW or DH2. 

2. Combat

FFG finally got around to fixing Full Auto in the 2e line: 
Full Auto -10 to Hit. 1 Damage Hit per Degree of Success 
Semi-Auto

Single Shot +10 to Hit. 

 

Accurate - Add up to 1d10 per 2 DoS on Aimed shots, max +2d10. Make Called shots with no penalty with Aim action.

Devastating - Do extra damage to hordes of enemies.
Felling - Ignore a quantity of Unnatural Toughness up to this number.
Toxic - Lol, there are like 5 versions of this quality now.


Replace all Unnatural Attributes (x2) with Unnatural Attribute (X), in a game about linear odds, multipliers broke things and were scrapped. Space Marines/Orks have U.T. (4), Eldar have U. Ag (3), etc.
 

3. Psychic Powers
 

Make Pushing useless and risky.

 

4. Cost

For the full FFG experience, throw $60 onto a fire.


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#11 HeavensThunderHammer

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 01:42 PM

How to Make Rogue Trader (2e!!!)

 

1. Skills and Talents

Let anyone buy any talent or skill, using their background as a guide. Seriously, you should be doing this anyway with elite advances, but there is a convoluted chart for pricing if you like that kind of thing, available in OW or DH2. 

2. Combat

FFG finally got around to fixing Full Auto in the 2e line: 
Full Auto -10 to Hit. 1 Damage Hit per Degree of Success 
Semi-Auto

Single Shot +10 to Hit. 

 

Accurate - Add up to 1d10 per 2 DoS on Aimed shots, max +2d10. Make Called shots with no penalty with Aim action.

Devastating - Do extra damage to hordes of enemies.
Felling - Ignore a quantity of Unnatural Toughness up to this number.
Toxic - Lol, there are like 5 versions of this quality now.

Replace all Unnatural Attributes (x2) with Unnatural Attribute (X), in a game about linear odds, multipliers broke things and were scrapped. Space Marines/Orks have U.T. (4), Eldar have U. Ag (3), etc.
 

3. Psychic Powers
 

Make Pushing useless and risky.

 

4. Cost

For the full FFG experience, throw $60 onto a fire.

 

What about skills? Lots of people don't seem to like the RT skill list.



#12 Marwynn

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:28 PM

I hope they don't go the DH2 route. Seems some of the social skills were trimmed.

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#13 Errant Knight

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 07:30 PM

I like that they trimmed the skills.  I've always found it preposterous that there are no specialization in doctors, but every weapon requires special training.  That's past stupid.

 

And, I still don't like the Full Auto, but it's a buttload better than it was.  Given that 1) skill is 80 (no reason, just a standard to start from), and 2) standard attacks are always aimed, then...

 

Now it's:

Standard Attack at 100

Semi-Auto at 80/60/40

Full-Auto at 70/60/50/40

 

Which means that Full-Auto is always a better option than Semi-Auto, since the only time Semi-Auto is better, it's even better to Standard Attack, rendering Semi-Auto pointless at all times, unless your weapon only fires on the 2 auto modes and the gunner is mediocre.

 

I like this better.  Give the Standard Attack +10, the Semi +0 with extras on 1 DoS, and Full +10 with extras for 2 DoS.  That gives us...

 

Standard at 100

Semi-Auto at 80/70/60

Full Auto at 90/70/50/30/10 (and still the extra degree of magnitude vs. Hordes)



#14 3AcresAndATau

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 08:08 PM

I certainly hope that it doesn't show up too soon, I'd like to see official Corsair or Craftworld Eldar PC options for 1.0 first.  

 

Although If a couple things were reformatted, having advance skills noted on the skill list and a spot to list the uses and mechanics of abilities on the character sheet would be nice.


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#15 Egyptoid

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 03:14 PM

>>>>>For the full FFG experience, throw $60 onto a fire.  :D 
 
and if you use GW minis to play FFG games...Rinse & Repeat.

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#16 Traejun

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 02:28 PM

I hope they don't go the DH2 route. Seems some of the social skills were trimmed.

 

A lot was trimmed from DH 2ed.  It's barebones, to be perfectly honest.  I've just started my first campaign in the new system and have already ok'ed some DH 1ed skills/talents for the players b/c the current core rulebook just doesn't have enough in there.  That's not even mentioning the gigantic gaps in the available talents.  It got over-trimmed IMO. 

 

As for RT 2ed, use the OW/DH2 type system - affinities/aptitudes - as a cost determining method for acquiring skills/talents/advances.  Trim off most of the alt ranks as they are sort of pointless when the advancement system becomes free form.  Add an Influence/Infamy/Fame type mechanic.

 

In other words, just bring it in line with the more recent systems. 






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