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was wanting help stating out crossbow


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#1 pashacordaro420

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:59 PM

i was wanting to put stats to a reverse limb crossbow it will definitly use ranged heavy skill i was thinking.

reverse limb crossbow
damage-7
critical-5
range-long
hard points-2
rarity-5
damage is 7 because reverse limbs generate more fps than standard crossbows also more range and penatration rate this model type im using has a 175 ib pull weight is about 425 fps maybe lower damage to 6? tell me what you guys think figured might be good assassin or big game hunter alternative and i was thinking to add a few speciality bolts to mix also for the variety.

#2 Simon Fix

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:20 PM

Considering the stats for the Corellian Compound Bow, I'd go with the following:

 

Reverse Limb Crossbow [Damage: 6, Critical: 4, Range: Long, Hard Points: 1, Rarity: 6, Cost: 750cr, Pierce 2, Cumbersome 3, Slow Loading, Limited Ammo 1, Knockdown]


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#3 pashacordaro420

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:27 PM

isnt there a talent that reduces cumbersome or is that the heavy harness only?

#4 Simon Fix

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:29 PM

isnt there a talent that reduces cumbersome or is that the heavy harness only?

 

There is a talent in the Hired Gun (Heavy) tree called Burly.  Each rank of Burly reduces the Cumbersome rating of weapons used by one, I believe.


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#5 pashacordaro420

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:35 PM

yup its burly "reduce any wielded weapons cumbersome quality and encumberance rating by a number equal to ranks in burly to a minimum of 1

#6 Simon Fix

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:36 PM

You might even consider making it a reverse-limb version of the Alliance Bolt-Thrower.

 

Reverse-Limb Alliance Bolt-Thrower [Damage: 8, Crit: 3, Range: Long, Hard Points: 1, Rarity: 7, Cost: 750cr, Pierce 2, Cumbersome 3, Knockdown, Slow-Loading, Limited Ammo 1]

 

The two points of Pierce give it the same effective damage as a Bowcaster, and Knockdown gives it the stopping power.  It's high damage, but Slow-Loading means you'll take a round to load between shots.


Edited by Simon Fix, 23 August 2014 - 10:37 PM.

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#7 pashacordaro420

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:57 PM

yea i have a questiin why are bows and arrows have different stats do you add the damage on a sucess or is that if your using it separate from the bow?

#8 Krieger22

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 04:55 AM

Sam Stewart talked about this some on one of the Order 66 podcasts. The regular arrows use the Ranged (heavy) skill because it's a lot of effort to pull the string back far enough to give them the punch they need to damage someone. The arrow types that use the Ranged (light) profile are contact arrows - it doesn't matter how hard they hit, just that they touch the target in order to trigger their effect.

 

Stewart also stated that this was a really good place for a GM to add a custom skill called "Bows" or "Archery" or something and just treat it as a career skill for whomever took it. That's a piece of advice I intend to follow if one of my players picks up a bow.



#9 progressions

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 07:06 AM

The regular crossbow assumes regular piercing arrowheads. The other arrows have different stats because they do different things. You don't add the damage, you just use the damage stats for whatever arrow you're firing at the moment.


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#10 Simon Fix

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:44 PM

Sam Stewart talked about this some on one of the Order 66 podcasts. The regular arrows use the Ranged (heavy) skill because it's a lot of effort to pull the string back far enough to give them the punch they need to damage someone. The arrow types that use the Ranged (light) profile are contact arrows - it doesn't matter how hard they hit, just that they touch the target in order to trigger their effect.

 

Stewart also stated that this was a really good place for a GM to add a custom skill called "Bows" or "Archery" or something and just treat it as a career skill for whomever took it. That's a piece of advice I intend to follow if one of my players picks up a bow.

 

No offense to Sam, but that has to be the silliest justification for what must have been a typo I have ever seen.  It doesn't matter what arrow you put in a compound bow (because we're still talking about the Corellian Compound Bow here, the only bow in the game at that point), it still has the same draw weight, it still has to be used with two hands, it still has to be aimed the same way.  There is no pulling the string back halfheartedly on a compound bow.

I also agree that a custom skill is what's needed there.  Bows are so significantly different than any type of rifle that they sort of deserve their own Ranged (Archaic) or Archery skill.


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#11 pashacordaro420

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:27 PM

yes i would its more archery skill then archaic i would treat is a ranged(archery) and have the same rules as any ranged skill. is tjere another way to lower cumbersome other than the burly talent?

#12 Talkie Toaster

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:47 PM

 

Sam Stewart talked about this some on one of the Order 66 podcasts. The regular arrows use the Ranged (heavy) skill because it's a lot of effort to pull the string back far enough to give them the punch they need to damage someone. The arrow types that use the Ranged (light) profile are contact arrows - it doesn't matter how hard they hit, just that they touch the target in order to trigger their effect.

 

Stewart also stated that this was a really good place for a GM to add a custom skill called "Bows" or "Archery" or something and just treat it as a career skill for whomever took it. That's a piece of advice I intend to follow if one of my players picks up a bow.

 

No offense to Sam, but that has to be the silliest justification for what must have been a typo I have ever seen.  It doesn't matter what arrow you put in a compound bow (because we're still talking about the Corellian Compound Bow here, the only bow in the game at that point), it still has the same draw weight, it still has to be used with two hands, it still has to be aimed the same way.  There is no pulling the string back halfheartedly on a compound bow.

I also agree that a custom skill is what's needed there.  Bows are so significantly different than any type of rifle that they sort of deserve their own Ranged (Archaic) or Archery skill.

 

I think Primitive is a good potential fit- 40kRPG uses it as a proficiency category. If you could use that one skill for unpowered ranged and melee weapons, then it'd give you an incentive to use them rather than Blasters and Vibroswords.



#13 Simon Fix

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:54 PM

yes i would its more archery skill then archaic i would treat is a ranged(archery) and have the same rules as any ranged skill. is tjere another way to lower cumbersome other than the burly talent

  • A Bipod Mount (CRB188) reduces the Cumbersome rating of a carbine, blaster rifle, or light repeating blaster by 2 when fired from a crouched or prone position.
  • A Tripod Mount (CRB193) reduces the Cumbersome rating of a light repeating blaster, heavy repeating blaster, or portable Gunnery weapon by 3 when the weapon is mounted on the Tripod. 
  • A Weapon Sling (CRB193) reduces the Cumbersome rating of a Ranged (Heavy) weapon by 1.  
  • A Weapon Harness (CRB193) reduces the Cumbersome rating of a Ranged (Heavy) or Gunnery weapon by 2.

I think that's it.


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#14 pashacordaro420

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:25 PM

i was looking in enter the unknown and the G9-GP pulse drill has cumbersome 3 i was thinki.ng to lowe cumbersome to 1. the bow would not be as cumbersome as the pulse drill it would be made of a light composite metal for the front section and the back would be plastoid were the coreillion compound is all metal a bow maybe lighter but much longer the average crossbow is only 30-35 inches bows range 48-62 inches making much harder to carry cause of length and not well suited to confined spaces

#15 progressions

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:26 PM

No offense to Sam, but that has to be the silliest justification for what must have been a typo I have ever seen. 

 

If it had been a typo, Stewart would have said "oh yeah, that's a typo, it'll be fixed in the next errata". He wouldn't have made up some justification for why it was actually correct. He's never given any indication of being such a liar, and many times (especially on the Order 66 podcast), he has addressed things that were mistakes or that they could have done better.

 

This isn't the first time someone has pulled the "Sam Stewart must be a liar who is making up a justification for a mistake and lying to everyone about it" in relation to this very same issue. It just offends me because this is a guy that works hard to make games for us to have fun with and constantly engages with fans through email, Twitter, on the podcasts, just trying to be helpful.

 

You don't have to agree with his rationale. You don't have to use it in your game. Stewart suggests that if archery is a common thing in your game, make an "Archery" skill and use that instead. If this is something that comes up every now and then, maybe don't worry about it and just go with it.

 

But I think you are wrong to make such accusations. Maybe Sam wouldn't take offense at being called a liar just because you say "no offense to Sam", but I do take offense and I feel you should apologize or show a little graciousness at least.


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#16 Simon Fix

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:36 PM

 

No offense to Sam, but that has to be the silliest justification for what must have been a typo I have ever seen. 

 

If it had been a typo, Stewart would have said "oh yeah, that's a typo, it'll be fixed in the next errata"... *SNIP!*

 

Okay, maybe I should apologize for not denoting my sarcasm enough.  I wasn't trying to accuse him of being a liar, just pointing out that it was a silly justification.  But even if I was saying that directly, you have to admit it wouldn't be the first time a producer made excuses for a mistake in a production.

 

Frankly, I don't care if it was intentional or if it was a production error.  All I care about is that it makes absolutely no sense, so I've house-ruled it out, just as I'm about to house-rule the use of grenades (because knowing how to shoot a pistol doesn't mean you know how to accurately toss a grenade).

 

Next time, I'll be sure to use the <sarcasm></sarcasm> tag.  Okay?


Edited by Simon Fix, 24 August 2014 - 02:40 PM.

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#17 kaosoe

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 03:32 PM

 

No offense to Sam, but that has to be the silliest justification for what must have been a typo I have ever seen. 

 

If it had been a typo, Stewart would have said "oh yeah, that's a typo, it'll be fixed in the next errata". He wouldn't have made up some justification for why it was actually correct. He's never given any indication of being such a liar, and many times (especially on the Order 66 podcast), he has addressed things that were mistakes or that they could have done better.

 

This isn't the first time someone has pulled the "Sam Stewart must be a liar who is making up a justification for a mistake and lying to everyone about it" in relation to this very same issue. It just offends me because this is a guy that works hard to make games for us to have fun with and constantly engages with fans through email, Twitter, on the podcasts, just trying to be helpful.

 

You don't have to agree with his rationale. You don't have to use it in your game. Stewart suggests that if archery is a common thing in your game, make an "Archery" skill and use that instead. If this is something that comes up every now and then, maybe don't worry about it and just go with it.

 

But I think you are wrong to make such accusations. Maybe Sam wouldn't take offense at being called a liar just because you say "no offense to Sam", but I do take offense and I feel you should apologize or show a little graciousness at least.

 

 

I hope we see energy bows soon, that may justify an archery skill.


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#18 Simon Fix

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 03:57 PM

I hope we see energy bows soon, that may justify an archery skill.

 

Like the Nightsisters' bows?  I know we don't have anything official, but I'd go with...

 

Nightsister Energy Bow [Damage: 8, Crit: 2, Range: Long, Hard Points: 1, Rarity: 9, Cost: 7,500cr, Breach 1, Vicious 2, Cumbersome 3]


Edited by Simon Fix, 24 August 2014 - 03:59 PM.

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#19 Jamwes

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:53 AM

I agree that the justification for Range Heavy/Light for the arrows on the bow is silly. They were probably thinking of a way to make the weapon accessable to any character who wanted to use it. The way I justify it to myself is that the Range Light arrows are rocket assisted. The part that annoys me the most is that it goes against their game design. In the CRB they talk about Range Light is for weapons that only use one hand and Range Heavy is for weapons which need two hands. Which means that bows should be Range Heavy.

 

As for the crossbow, I don't think I'd give it Cumbersome. The point of a crossbow over a bow is that anyone can use it. You don't need some sort of extra strength to use the weapon. Unless, you fluff it that you need a decent Brawn to reload it. In that case I'd give it some sort of special rule of Slow Loading unless your Brawn is 3.


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#20 Simon Fix

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 09:00 AM

As for the crossbow, I don't think I'd give it Cumbersome. The point of a crossbow over a bow is that anyone can use it. You don't need some sort of extra strength to use the weapon. Unless, you fluff it that you need a decent Brawn to reload it. In that case I'd give it some sort of special rule of Slow Loading unless your Brawn is 3.

 

A crossbow is, by and large, a more cumbersome weapon to shoot than an actual bow.  I'm speaking out of mild expertise, as an avid hobbyist archer, even if my experience with crossbows is limited to more anachronistic models.  While its design makes it easier to shoot, the overall need for it to have a large length and width makes it unwieldy.

 

That, and bowcasters are Cumbersome 3, too... so I'd take my queue from FFG in adding Cumbersome to the crossbow.


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