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Heal is light side only


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#61 Demigonis

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 08:55 PM

 

 

So it is acceptable for this one force power to be denied to a dark side character simply because it's written differently?

 

Put another way,  why can't a dark side character fueling the power only with the light side heal? What is our justification besides dark can't heal (which is very questionable in the first place)

To me it's because they've fully lost themselves to the darkness, they can no longer find it within themselves to selflessly heal. They have to draw the life force from someone else to do it, because they no longer have the inner tranquility necessary to be able to heal by themselves. That's just how I see it.

 

Not that this is necessarily anything about it, but I'm not a fan of some of the eu mary sue "grey jedi" that run around mixing the dark side and the light. The light side is good. The dark side is evil. That is made endlessly clear.

 

 

How does that reconcile with being able to heal using dark side results on the die?  Are we assuming that the characters morality determines their dark leanings and not the actual result on the die?

Because it's completely different for someone who isn't a dark sider to tap into the dark side to give their regular powers a little boost when they need it then for someone who has fully embraced the dark side. (30- Morality)


Edited by Demigonis, 04 September 2014 - 08:55 PM.

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#62 Demigonis

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 08:56 PM

I prefer my "magic" in my D&D and fantasy Warhammer games.

 

In Star Wars, it's only the Force for me, even if you call it by several different names. Some cultures can still call it "magick" in Star Wars, but it's still that midichlorian-surrounds-all-life stuff. There isn't some other second or third mystical power at work in my Star Wars. I'm going with that was the intention from the get go and sticking with it. If you start straying into stuff like real fantasy world style magic being added to the Star Wars universe (in addition to the Force) you are making your setting into something other then Star Wars in my opinion. To me that's only one step from the Battlestar Galactica arriving above Coruscant having discovered the Lost Colony. Sure it might be fun, but it's something other then Star Wars at that point.

That's fine. I'm not at all concerned about "your Star Wars." That's for you to worry about. I'm concerned about canon.



#63 Sturn

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 09:01 PM

 

 

 

 

I prefer my "magic" in my D&D and fantasy Warhammer games.

 

In Star Wars, it's only the Force for me, even if you call it by several different names. Some cultures can still call it "magick" in Star Wars, but it's still that midichlorian-surrounds-all-life stuff. There isn't some other second or third mystical power at work in my Star Wars. I'm going with that was the intention from the get go and sticking with it. If you start straying into stuff like real fantasy world style magic being added to the Star Wars universe (in addition to the Force) you are making your setting into something other then Star Wars in my opinion. To me that's only one step from the Battlestar Galactica arriving above Coruscant having discovered the Lost Colony. Sure it might be fun, but it's something other then Star Wars at that point.

 

But what would starbuck be? Metaphysical questions abound.

 

Original Battlestar Galactica? He's a Human Ace of course. New Battlestar? She's an uber-advanced anDroid Ace. She just doesn't know it yet until she runs into her twin Guri. :)

 

not to get too spoilerrific, but is she even a droid?  she just disappears into thin air.

 

 

Well, it depends on your personal interpretation since it was left so ambiquous. And, if you noticed, my interpretation was tongue-in-cheek. Just like my labeling of Coruscant as the "Lost Colony" of BSG. Spoiler alert - that wasn't correct either. :)



#64 Thebearisdriving

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 09:40 PM

how do you know? :)

 

Maybe there's a raptor buried some where in the undercity.



#65 Thebearisdriving

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 09:45 PM

 

Because it's completely different for someone who isn't a dark sider to tap into the dark side to give their regular powers a little boost when they need it then for someone who has fully embraced the dark side. (30- Morality)

 

 

I suppose I don't see that distinction.  when using dark side pips, you are tapping into the darkside.

 

Once fallen, that becomes your default mode, but you still ahve the capacity to access the light side.  I don't fully agree that you have a whole piece of the force denied to you, especially if you have the power xps invested.

 

But I suppose at this point it's beating a dead horse.  I think that the power would be better balanced using my suggestion, preventing some of the massive healing and damage I've seen.  but the rAW does present a strong limiting factor to the grey jedi (a sort of terminal moment if you wil).  I can safely say that one of my players embraced the death side of the force.   :)


Edited by Thebearisdriving, 04 September 2014 - 09:45 PM.


#66 Demigonis

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 10:12 PM

 

 

Because it's completely different for someone who isn't a dark sider to tap into the dark side to give their regular powers a little boost when they need it then for someone who has fully embraced the dark side. (30- Morality)

 

 

I suppose I don't see that distinction.  when using dark side pips, you are tapping into the darkside.

 

Once fallen, that becomes your default mode, but you still ahve the capacity to access the light side.  I don't fully agree that you have a whole piece of the force denied to you, especially if you have the power xps invested.

 

But I suppose at this point it's beating a dead horse.  I think that the power would be better balanced using my suggestion, preventing some of the massive healing and damage I've seen.  but the rAW does present a strong limiting factor to the grey jedi (a sort of terminal moment if you wil).  I can safely say that one of my players embraced the death side of the force.   :)

 

As long as your player doesn't embrace the 'mary sue' side of the Force, everything will probably be okay. ;)



#67 evileeyore

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 10:21 PM

not to get too spoilerrific, but is she even a droid?  she just disappears into thin air.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she was meant to be Space Messiah, not R2D2*.








* Whom is the real hero of the movies.
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#68 Thebearisdriving

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 07:04 PM

After watching some of the clone wars cartoons, I realized one of the best examples of "healing" that the darkside accomplishes:  Darth Maul.  Now I am not saying that Darth Maul surviving obi-wan's final strike is an example of the heal power exactly,  but based on Obi-wan's strike and the Placement of Maul's cybernetic legs in the clone wars series, it is obvious that Maul should have been dead.  Not simply losing a leg or two, but dead.

 

Now I understand that the Heal power in general is not what keeps Maul alive after being diced in half (or vader alive on Mustafar for that matter), but clearly the darkside has a method of preserving life in an unnatrual way.  Which from a game perspective can be something like heal.

 

This is the best reason i can think not to restrict the heal power to non-dark side only characters.  Resrtict dark siders to only healing them selves, or restrict the heal power to only functioning from lightside pips (so dark side characters must struggle to use it), or even both.  But the dark side has the capacity to sustain life in unnatural ways, and not simply by transfering life essence from one target to another, but in a sort of zombified/undead way. Which could easily be the heal power being applied to a dark side character by themselves to prevent death from arriving.

 

Feel free to disagree.  this isn't solid and irrifutable evidence.  but if we compare the examples of the dark side sustaining "life" to examples of the light side sustaining life, I think more examples of the dark side can be found.



#69 evileeyore

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 07:20 PM

Well, they added Healing to oneself in the Update, so it's possible it'll get changed to Light points and Dark Points respectively.




As for Maul, he may have just been a badass and survived his life threatening wounds. Also don;t forget Healing Trance and Healing Trance (Imporved) exist and could also explain his survival.

#70 Thebearisdriving

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 07:34 PM

Force powers or not... it's really hard to survive without a lower intestine.  I mean, the diarrhea man.  Dear... GOD! :)



#71 Demigonis

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:22 PM

It was his "Against All Odds" talent keeping him alive as he kept feeding it Dark Side points every "session." :-P


Edited by Demigonis, 10 September 2014 - 09:21 PM.

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#72 Thebearisdriving

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 02:34 PM

In all our discussion I forgot one of the best EU examples of a kind of healing... Darth Sion from the KOTOR II game. Again, another non-canon reference, but talk about someone that just didn't care about taking a wound.  And it was the dark side that sustained him.

 

Not that that is evidence one way or another, but I just can't believe I forgot about him.



#73 Demigonis

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 11:32 AM

Ehh... I don't know if I'd really consider what Darth Sion did to be healing. He didn't really heal his body so much as just stopped it from being destroyed completely.



#74 Thebearisdriving

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 09:11 PM

but in game terms, what does that mean?

 

Understand, I'm not disagreeing with you conceptually, but in game terms he's keeping himself functional despite taking many wounds and critical injuries.  certainly his "character would have hard headed, durable, and lots of wounds, but he is also recovering from being stricken down, functioning past the point of death.  

 

In anycase, I had forgotten about him.  



#75 Demigonis

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 08:26 AM

In game terms he's a Nemesis-level NPC with a character-specific ability that only he has.

 

Perhaps it is something along the lines of "Deathless Dark Side Rage." This character can use the "Against All Odds" talent without any session limitation.

 

Or it's simply fluff and he can't be defeated through suffering wounds until/unless another particular story condition is met.


Edited by Demigonis, 22 September 2014 - 08:30 AM.





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