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One with the Universe Talent


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#1 Split Light

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:13 PM

I am preparing to play a Sage in our upcoming campaign, and was reading through the talent tree when I came across the One with the Universe talent.  Summary:  Spend several minutes meditating and then make a average Astrogation check.  If successful may add extra light or dark side points during the encounter depending on how you roll.

 

I like the power thematically, but Astrogation?  I realize that's the power you use to navigate the universe, but it really doesn't seem like one somebody would use to open oneself up and become "one with the universe."  Astrogation has always struck me as being more about star charts, mathematical computations, and computers, not getting into a meditative mindset.  I don't see how being able to plot a course to Hoth will better help me get in touch with the force.

 

I would think something like discipline or even vigilance would make more sense.  Even perception seems better then astrogation  Thoughts?


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#2 yeti1069

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 04:50 PM

I took it as Astrogation being the best representation of considering the entirety of the universe. In that sense, I think it fits pretty well, but I do agree that Discipline would probably make more sense. I suspect that the writers were also looking for ways to make skills besides Discipline and Lightsaber important.


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#3 kaosoe

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 05:55 PM

It is a weird choice. My gripe is that a success with no threats or advantage is a practically a failure.


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#4 LETE

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 07:03 PM

Hiyas!

 

I would find a better fit in Education or other Knowledge rolls, by what you say.

 

 

L



#5 kaosoe

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 07:11 PM

Hiyas!

 

I would find a better fit in Education or other Knowledge rolls, by what you say.

 

 

L

That's interesting. If we want to keep it an intellect skill, Knowledge (Lore) would be a neat choice.


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#6 Split Light

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 07:55 PM

Knowledge lore does make sense.  I think I understand what they're trying to do.  Add a few skills in beyond discipline.  I just don't know that Astrogation is what I'd pick.  It should probably be something that's one of their skills, so knowledge lore would make sense.



#7 Ghostofman

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 08:31 PM

What? You guys never heard of astrology?


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#8 yeti1069

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:37 PM

It is a weird choice. My gripe is that a success with no threats or advantage is a practically a failure.

Well, in the description for the talent in the specialization tree it says that yo need that advantage, but in the talents section, all it says is that you need t succeed to get the light side pip, while success with a threat gives you the dark. Not sure which is supposed to be correct, but if it is the specialization tree version, I'm inclined to agree with you.


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#9 yeti1069

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 11:40 PM

 

Hiyas!

 

I would find a better fit in Education or other Knowledge rolls, by what you say.

 

 

L

That's interesting. If we want to keep it an intellect skill, Knowledge (Lore) would be a neat choice.

 

I think an argument could be made for Astrogation, Knowledge (Lore), Discipline, and probably anther skill or two.

 

As far as Astrogation goes, I see it as your pondering the cosmos by extending your awareness beyond yourself to the stars and planets of the galaxy. In one of the books, Luke is teaching his students and basically describes the process in that way. Discipline covers the mental state, but not really the sense of exploring space, and Lore doesn't really cover this. Honestly, I'd be happy with any of them.



#10 evileeyore

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:11 AM

What? You guys never heard of astrology?

Astrology and astrogation are two entirely different fields.

#11 Lathrop

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:15 AM

Astrogation is definitely kind of an odd choice. I guess it sort of makes sense if connecting to the universe means knowing where all the planets and stuff are, but it seems more that the power is more of being zen and just generally being more in-tuned with the force, which is more a discipline thing. Seems more like it's trying to put less in Discipline and shift more stuff into more areas.

 

 

It is a weird choice. My gripe is that a success with no threats or advantage is a practically a failure.

 

The way I kind of see it, is that success means you actually connect with the greater powers of the universe, and so advantage means you connect to the light side, threat means you connect to the dark side. Issue with this though, is that dark siders, or even somebody who just wants to use dark side powers, this power is completely useless as is since any decent astrogation/intellect will more likely guarantee success with advantages.



#12 Jegergryte

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 04:38 AM

Considering that the Astrogation skill description states that Astrogation is also about galactic geography, knowledge of locations of star systems, and stuff like that, I think it makes sense.


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#13 Ghostofman

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 07:47 AM

 

What? You guys never heard of astrology?

Astrology and astrogation are two entirely different fields.

 

 
 
You sure about that chummer?
 

Astrogation is the planning of a route through space and the actual navigation of spacecraft, either in interplanetary travel or in interstellar travel. The mathematical principles governing interplanetary astrogation were first derived by mathematical physicists in the 19th and 20th centuries.

 

Astrology, or astromancy, consists of several systems of divination based on the premise that there is a relationship between astronomical phenomena and events in the human world.

 

 

 

Both would need to know the position of Venus at a given time, its just a matter of what they do with that information that is different...


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#14 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 07:54 AM

Considering that the Astrogation skill description states that Astrogation is also about galactic geography, knowledge of locations of star systems, and stuff like that, I think it makes sense.

About to say the same thing myself.

 

It's also a skill that not very many Sages are going to max out, so it helps cut down on how often they're going to have that automatic Force Point, particularly if the Sage is able to get their zen on just before the big throw-down with the major villain, especially since this spec has the Force Rating talent twice, meaning they can easily get to Force Rating 3.

 

As for the Advantage bit, I'm thinking it'd be best to remove the requirement of needing Advantage from the talent tree and stick with how it's described on page 105, with success generating that Light Side Force Point, but any uncancelled Threat means you generated a Dark Side Force Point instead.


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#15 kaosoe

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 08:02 AM

Astrogation gets practically no use in my games, so if it means giving some weight to that skill, I wouldn't mind it staying as is. But it still feels like some other skill would work better.

 

And silly me for "doing the thing" and not reading the long-form of the talent. I get on to my players for making that same mistake. Good to know the long description doesn't require the advantage.


Edited by kaosoe, 23 August 2014 - 08:02 AM.

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#16 evileeyore

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:05 AM

You sure about that chummer?

Yes.

I had a long post about the differences, and that Astrology (Western) isn't about predicting the future, blah, blah...

..however...


I could see a Stellar Astrology based on Eastern Astrology and the Hermetic Alchemist's misapplied "As Above, So Below" philosophy. Divorce it from a singular planet's view of the heavens and more on how "stellar" ley lines/dragon winds, conjunctions, such apply forces upon the events of mortals...


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#17 evileeyore

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:05 AM

You sure about that chummer?

Yes.

I had a long post about the differences, and that Astrology (Western) isn't about predicting the future, blah, blah...

..however...


I could see a Stellar Astrology based on Eastern Astrology and the Hermetic Alchemist's misapplied "As Above, So Below" philosophy. Divorce it from a singular planet's view of the heavens and more on how "stellar" ley lines/dragon winds, conjunctions, such apply forces upon the events of mortals...


I still don;t see it being "Astrogation" though. Call it Knowledge: Lore for me...

#18 2P51

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:31 AM

I think they were trying to pick something other than Discipline.  That and try and come up with uses for underused Skills in the game.


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#19 Donovan Morningfire

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:37 AM

I think they were trying to pick something other than Discipline.  That and try and come up with uses for underused Skills in the game.

Probably,  After all, it'd be the rare Sage that didn't boost up Willpower and Discipline, to the point than an Average check wouldn't be a thing.


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#20 yeti1069

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:01 PM

Astrogation gets practically no use in my games, so if it means giving some weight to that skill, I wouldn't mind it staying as is. But it still feels like some other skill would work better.

 

And silly me for "doing the thing" and not reading the long-form of the talent. I get on to my players for making that same mistake. Good to know the long description doesn't require the advantage.

Don't feel too bad. I'm sure you're usually on your players for not reading the long-form description because the longer versions includes more information and varies a little from the short-form, while in this case, they're actually different. Remains to be seen as to whether the final version will require that Advantage or not.






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