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#1 Bryon

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 04:51 PM

I'm thinking of making a map of places that my team of heroes could explore, and wondering if you all might have any ideas.

 

My inspiration comes from the old MECCG, which I didn't play but once and only have one small starter deck.  But the LCG is really a lot more fun.  Anyway, my thought was that each "space" on the map would have its own encounter deck with the specific locations and treacheries and characters that are associated with that area.

 

Each player would explore with his own team, trying to find some hidden objective cards, beating a certain number of orcs, or some other goals.

 

Ideas?



#2 Gizlivadi

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 05:06 PM

This is something I have thought about for a long time. I really enjoy MECCG's "sandbox" style of gameplay and how you can explore whatever locations you want, face automatic attacks, find objects, whatever. If this game were a solo/coop version of that, it would be pretty much the perfect game for me.

 

The problem is that I've yet to find a way to implement this in this game, if it is at all possible, because we have this quest system, in which each location or region of Middle Earth has a specific story and narrative associated with it. So you can't really explore Middle Earth as you like and do what you want because the encounter deck functions with the quest cards, and quest cards have necessarily a story attached to them. That is perhaps the main problem of this game in relation to this idea. Perhaps you could try using just the encounter sets and travel with your party to find enemies and such, but as I said, quest cards are just so important and have such a close relationship with the rest of the encounter cards that you can't just disregard them.


Edited by Gizlivadi, 18 August 2014 - 05:07 PM.

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#3 Bryon

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 05:42 PM

Yeah, I know that I'd lose a lot of the designers' intent without the quest cards. Those would have to be replaced by some kind of "goal" cards that tell you what your objectives are in the game.

 

I was thinking that the encounter sets from each Base set/ Deluxe expansion could act as a sort of hub or "first step" in exploring a new region (Mirkwood, the Anduin, Dwarrowdelf, etc.), while the cards from each small expansion encounter set could be offshoots from the appropriate hub.  As each deluxe expansion is released, it could create a new hub, with the 6 small expansions as spokes on that wheel.

 

If I want to get super specific, I could break it down to even smaller areas and unique locations, but I don't think I want to lose the ease of sorting by encounter icon.



#4 richsabre

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 03:57 AM

my advice is just stay to the lore if youre doing this... so i ask... how well do you know middle earth? there are varying levels of interest from gamers here

 

of course, each area has its own enemies, and the designers already take note of this, and use this idea, but i mean, some encounter sets can be put into other areas... for instance, duplicate ones... i mean, we have been to mirkwood forest twice... we are going to khazad dum again in the saga packs.. .all these can be in 1 area

 

then you have orc encounter sets... so they can go almost anywhere that would make lore sense

 

if you get a map of middle earth, split it up into regions and then mini regions as you suggested - i like this idea...sort of like how MMRPG are split into large zones then smaller zones ... then decide which enemies you would logically find in each... the locations are easier of course, as they are actually only in 1 place, though i guess things that arent named and are generic could be moved to other areas


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#5 Kerstoid

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 08:18 AM

I'm thinking of making a map of places that my team of heroes could explore, and wondering if you all might have any ideas.

 

I've started making Master of Lore's LOTR LCG Atlas which might be what you are looking for.  It might help create the kind of customization that others have suggested here.  If nothing else, it should be fun to browse!  So far I've just done the core set, Mirkwood cycle, Khazad-dum, and Dwarrowdelf cycle, but I hope to catch up to releases once I get a little more time.  Until then, enjoy and let me know what you think!

 

https://sites.google...helotrlcgatlas/


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#6 gregee123

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:03 AM

Master of Lore's LOTR LCG Atlas


That's a great initiative. Hope you're not gonna stop in your tracks.


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#7 Mndela

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:55 AM

 

I'm thinking of making a map of places that my team of heroes could explore, and wondering if you all might have any ideas.

 

I've started making Master of Lore's LOTR LCG Atlas which might be what you are looking for.  It might help create the kind of customization that others have suggested here.  If nothing else, it should be fun to browse!  So far I've just done the core set, Mirkwood cycle, Khazad-dum, and Dwarrowdelf cycle, but I hope to catch up to releases once I get a little more time.  Until then, enjoy and let me know what you think!

 

https://sites.google...helotrlcgatlas/

 

 

Amazing job.


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#8 Johnny Awesome

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 01:47 PM

Very cool. I was a HUGE fan of the original CCG.

 

The things I miss about that game are the sense of freedom and the sheer number of cards you got to play in a given game.

 

I don't miss buying boxes and boxes of cards though. :)

 

This might be a cool project, but if you're ditching quest cards you might need to figure out what the game objectives are going to be.



#9 Bryon

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 03:26 PM

That online Atlas is just what I was looking for!  I own the Atlas that you got your images from, but I was hoping someone had already added the locations to that map.  You did that for each set already. Nice!

 

Do you happen to have a master map, with all the locations marked on one map?

 

Thanks again for that help.



#10 Kerstoid

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 03:58 PM

That online Atlas is just what I was looking for!  I own the Atlas that you got your images from, but I was hoping someone had already added the locations to that map.  You did that for each set already. Nice!

 

Do you happen to have a master map, with all the locations marked on one map?

 

Thanks again for that help.

Great, I'm glad to hear it is useful!  I don't have One Map to Rule Them All, as it were, but that might be something to try.  I'm using a free online service called ThingLink.  I wonder if it could handle it?

 

Thanks all for the encouragement to continue!

 

As for an alternate play style that makes more sense geographically, I imagine that you would need to create new Quest Cards and separate the locations from the encounter deck.  Like some quests which dictate certain locations be brought into play at a certain time, you could plan the order of locations and reveal them in turn as you explore each.  Maybe...


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#11 Gizlivadi

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 04:02 PM

I'm thinking something like the automatic attacks in MECCG when you entered a location. You can enter Moria, or Mirkwood, or the Redhorn Gate, and you set up the encounter sets that match with that location and play as normal. The objective for some of these could be that you randomly attach an item or objective to one location, and if you have killed enough enemies and explore that location, you get the item. It needs refinemet of ocurse, but it could be something along those lines.


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#12 Cunir

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 04:07 PM

13thcaesar posted this topic last year which had a lot of good ideas in it. It kind of links all the quests together, but in a way that gives you choices about which direction you want to go. And as you go from place to place you unlock all the races that came from that place: http://community.fan...-campaign-lotr/

#13 deeth82

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 11:28 AM

This might be a cool project, but if you're ditching quest cards you might need to figure out what the game objectives are going to be.

Agreed 100%.  It's one thing to say "Kill [X] Orcs at this location", but would you be using the original game mechanics?  If so, you'd need to figure out a way to incorporate the threat level in...the whole reason it exists is so players won't/can't turtle through encounters; a timer of sorts.  I'd say that this is a great idea overall, but you'd need to at least come up with some original quest card-like requirements (# of progress tokens to pass/starting or victory conditions), and weaving some sort of narrative around it would be even better!  I've seen on this forum where lots of players have created custom quest cards (and kindly shared the original blank templates for all to openly create their own).

I suppose another way to make it challenging would be to list on the map locations what deck(s) the players may use for each quest, thereby negating uber-build bulldozing of quests, but again...this would require a good bit of play-testing and tweaks to ensure proper challenge, and some folks would probably argue that deck-building is the most fun aspect for them, so you might lose that particular audience.

All in all, it sounds like a fun idea...who doesn't love a sandbox game?

Edit: Props to Kerstoid on the wonderful map work!


Edited by deeth82, 21 August 2014 - 11:29 AM.

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#14 Distractionbeast

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:10 PM

This is an interesting idea, but far more complicated than it may sound on the surface.  Here's how I'd approach it...

 

The world map is divided into regions to represent game areas.  Each region has an encounter deck prepared for it.  Custom quest cards would be provided for each of these decks which would contain victory conditions.  These conditions would need to be met in order to pass or clear that region.  The victory conditions should be based on the quest conditions for that encounter deck (since many encounter decks are designed around a specific challenge and would not function without these conditions).  3 levels of victory are possible, indicated on the quest cards.

 

Once a game has been won in a region, the player may move to an adjacent region.

 

For rewards and progression, I'd have players start with a core card pool (core set potentially) and upon entering a new region, ante up a random player card from the set appropriate to that region (heroes included).  A level 1 victory (easy) lets you pass the region and pick up the ante card.  A level 2 victory lets you keep the ante card and 1 random additional card.  Level 3 gives you the ante card plus 1 random and 1 chosen card.

 

After a victory, remove 1 damage from each hero, remove all damage from allies.

 

A threat modifier is tracked throughout the campaign starting at 0:  a level 1 victory gives +1, level 2 gives +0, level 3 gives -1.  The modifier total is then added to your starting threat whenever you begin a game in a region.  As with the core rules, threat of 50 loses the entire campaign.  

 

Losing a game means losing a random card from your deck and a +1 threat modifier.  

 

Safe regions like Rivendell or Lorien can let you trade cards from your pool for campaign level effects or special cards.  You may trade X cards for a -X reduction of your threat modifier, or trade X cards to heal X damage from each hero.  You may also trade a 3 cards for a boon or treasure card.

 

Extras:  each region has a condition card which is considered in play during games in that region.  these conditions may have different effects to reflect the flavor of the region.  For example, in the Misty Mountains, eagle allies get +1 will.  Or in Khazad Dum, the condition card can be exhausted to give a dwarf ally +1 defense until the end of the round.

 

An endgame would still be required, but this is how I'd probably approach the nuts and bolts of such a sandbox campaign.

 

This is probably full of design holes, but it's what comes to mind immediately.


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#15 Gizlivadi

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:31 PM

Custom quest cards? then what's the point of this system? If you're going to have quest cards just stick with the ones we already have. I thought the idea was to make a sandbox mode, where you could go to whatever place to do whatever you want. For example, you can go to Moria to defeat the Balrog, or maybe to recover Durin's Axe, etc. You make your own goal. That's the whole point, at least for me. Victory conditions could determied by getting a number of points. You could get these points by doing stuff, findig treasure, defeating certain enemies, etc.

 

That said, everything else about your approach sounds pretty cool.


Edited by Gizlivadi, 21 August 2014 - 05:32 PM.

"A straight road lay westward, now it is bent."


#16 Bryon

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 08:18 AM

My new goal is to mark each location in the game on a master map of Middle Earth, using the icon from the enounter set as the marker. Then, I'm going to draw regions around larger areas and little shapes around smaller areas, to make an old school gameboard out of it.  Then, I'm going to let my team of 3 Heroes walk around in Middle Earth, revealing a card from the encounter deck corresponding to the area my team is in.

 

After playing around in the sandbox for a while, we can come up with point values for different goals.


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#17 KennedyHawk

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 11:17 AM

This would be really cool let us know how it turns out! :)



#18 deeth82

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 06:13 AM

Custom quest cards? then what's the point of this system? If you're going to have quest cards just stick with the ones we already have.

As a clarification to my earlier post, the quests themselves would remain the same, but the win conditions/treasures/etc. could be added in to make things a bit less fiddly.  For instance, if you won the Passage Through Mirkwood scenario on Bryon's map campaign, you wouldn't have to go back to a reference guide (which would admittedly be easier for him to create) to find out his win conditions, or the bonuses attained for completing that particular quest.

TL;DR: I wasn't recommending the quests themselves be changed, but rather amended to clarify win conditions/outcomes.


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#19 13thcaesar

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 10:08 AM

13thcaesar posted this topic last year which had a lot of good ideas in it. It kind of links all the quests together, but in a way that gives you choices about which direction you want to go. And as you go from place to place you unlock all the races that came from that place: http://community.fan...-campaign-lotr/

 

After the release of Voice Of Isengard it show up a  new "Haven" - Isengard, and one new  path from Minas Tirith -> Isengard. In The Ring-maker cycle there are release many Silvan cards, which you can get access in Lorien. A Lost Realm should give access to new paths and perhaps "Haven" - Bree (I think, the  adventure starts in Rivendell or in Bree).



#20 Distractionbeast

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 01:19 PM

Custom quest cards? then what's the point of this system? If you're going to have quest cards just stick with the ones we already have. I thought the idea was to make a sandbox mode, where you could go to whatever place to do whatever you want. For example, you can go to Moria to defeat the Balrog, or maybe to recover Durin's Axe, etc. You make your own goal. That's the whole point, at least for me. Victory conditions could determied by getting a number of points. You could get these points by doing stuff, findig treasure, defeating certain enemies, etc.

 

That said, everything else about your approach sounds pretty cool.

 

My idea for custom quest cards was to cut down the time spent on each scenario and to unify the victory conditions enough to implement higher level systems which might interfere with the official quest conditions - for example the threat modifier.  This may totally screw up some scenarios and would probably require custom balancing of victory conditions, etc.  This is all speculation and I haven't taken the time (and I won't) to review each scenario and evaluate how well they'd fit this system right out of the box.

 

I was assuming the point of the system was to link the locations into a coherent whole and create a meta system to hold it all together beyond just jumping from one unconnected quest to another.  It's basically creating a new game container while preserving the core mechanics and content.

 

Anyway, I was just intrigued by the proposition and decided to weigh in.  I'm not standing behind this as an official proposal.   ;)

 

I just made this stuff up as I typed, but it's how I'd approach the question.


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