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For those Tie Advanced players, I am fixing my ship


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#1 Knucklesamwich

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:47 AM

I have thought many times about what to do to make the not so "advanced" feel advanced. I am considering making my own "Tie Advanced only" modification for use in my casual games.

Redirect Power
Tie Advanced only
At the start of the activation phase you may choose to redirect power to your primary weapon and increase by one attack dice and decrease your agility by one evade dice.
Zero point cost.
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#2 iPeregrine

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:50 AM

So the solution to the TIE advanced is to make it an x-wing with a free option to sacrifice firepower for agility on turns when it can't shoot anything?
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#3 Knucklesamwich

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:52 AM

I don't think it would unbalance anything and atleast give an "advanced" ship some kind of unique feel.
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#4 Gadge

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:55 AM

Sounds cool to me, have to see it played a few times.

 

I think the problem is, as others have said that what makes the 'tie advance' *advanced* in backstory is that it has shields and a hyperdrive.

 

Clearly the hyperdrive has no real function in the game.

 

Maybe a game rule that lets ships with hyperdrive drop into the board after the games beginning would help?  You'd need to slightly randomise this a bit with say a scatter dice to make it a risk but it could be good for outflanking people...

 

then again nearly every rebel fighter can 'jump' so it might just end up being silly.


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Rebels: Awing (4) Bwing (3) Xwing (4) Ywing (4) Ewing ( 1) YT1300 (1) CR90 (1.5) GR75 (1) HWK290(2) Z95 (4)

Imperial:TIE/Adv (1)TIE/ln (8) Tie/int (4) Royal Tie Int (3) Phantom(1) Defender(1) Lambda (1) TIE/Bomb (2)

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#5 Gadge

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:57 AM

So the solution to the TIE advanced is to make it an x-wing with a free option to sacrifice firepower for agility on turns when it can't shoot anything?

 

other way round surely, you're directing fire *to* the guns not away so what it does is give you a cannons boost but means if anyone can shoot back you're vulnerable?


Old school 80s Sci fi fan.  Playing X-Wing and Rogue Trader (tabletop & RPG)

Rebels: Awing (4) Bwing (3) Xwing (4) Ywing (4) Ewing ( 1) YT1300 (1) CR90 (1.5) GR75 (1) HWK290(2) Z95 (4)

Imperial:TIE/Adv (1)TIE/ln (8) Tie/int (4) Royal Tie Int (3) Phantom(1) Defender(1) Lambda (1) TIE/Bomb (2)

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#6 Dieter122

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:58 AM

So many fun ideas and solutions through house ruling ..

The tie advanced idea is cool. Similar to what could be done in xwing and tie fighter the PC games. Redirecting your power to what system is most needed.

#7 Knucklesamwich

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:00 AM

Don't forget that x-wings get astromechs. That is a HUGE advantage.
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#8 Knucklesamwich

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:01 AM

So many fun ideas and solutions through house ruling ..
The tie advanced idea is cool. Similar to what could be done in xwing and tie fighter the PC games. Redirecting your power to what system is most needed.


Nail on the head! That game was my inspiration for the idea as my buddy and I were talking on the way home from gencon.

#9 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:02 AM

I have thought many times about what to do to make the not so "advanced" feel advanced. I am considering making my own "Tie Advanced only" modification for use in my casual games.
Redirect Power
Tie Advanced only
At the start of the activation phase you may choose to redirect power to your primary weapon and increase by one attack dice and decrease your agility by one evade dice.
Zero point cost.


Okay, that turns it into an X-wing for the turn. It's basically Expose without the action cost, and we know a lot about how Expose works. So here are my questions:

(1) Is this enough to fix the Advanced? That is, will a Tenpest Squadron Pilot + Redirect Power be a viable choice in your at-home games?

(2) Is this too much to fix the Advanced? That is, does it make Vader overly powerful? What happens if it's combined with Opportunist or Expose? Should it be priced at 0, or is it worth a bump of 1-2 points?

(3) Is it distinct? That is, the design space around Imperial ships with 3 Attack is pretty crowded. Is an Advanced at 3/2/3/2 sufficiently different from other Imperial options, and is it clearly a better or worse choice than an Interceptor with a Hull Upgrade?

#10 Knucklesamwich

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:04 AM

I have thought many times about what to do to make the not so "advanced" feel advanced. I am considering making my own "Tie Advanced only" modification for use in my casual games.
Redirect Power
Tie Advanced only
At the start of the activation phase you may choose to redirect power to your primary weapon and increase by one attack dice and decrease your agility by one evade dice.
Zero point cost.


Okay, that turns it into an X-wing for the turn. It's basically Expose without the action cost, and we know a lot about how Expose works. So here are my questions:
(1) Is this enough to fix the Advanced? That is, will a Tenpest Squadron Pilot + Redirect Power be a viable choice in your at-home games?
(2) Is this too much to fix the Advanced? That is, does it make Vader overly powerful? What happens if it's combined with Opportunist or Expose? Should it be priced at 0, or is it worth a bump of 1-2 points?
(3) Is it distinct? That is, the design space around Imperial ships with 3 Attack is pretty crowded. Is an Advanced at 3/2/3/2 sufficiently different from other Imperial options, and is it clearly a better or worse choice than an Interceptor with a Hull Upgrade?

Astromechs on the x-wing make it much better then the advanced already for the same point cost. This balances it in my opinion

#11 MajorJuggler

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:04 AM

Obligatory post, here's my house rule:

 

Title. TIE Advanced only.

Cost: -1 (Vader) / -2 (others)

After you perform an attack, you may acquire a target lock on the defender.

 

 

TL;DR MathWing justification:

  • TIE Advanced is overcosted by 4 points.
  • -2 cost and a free FCS is about 4 points.
  • It makes TIE Advanced the preferred platform for Cluster Missiles (which has its own issues, but 1 thing at a time).
  • It's more than just a TIE Fighter with 2 shields.
  • Darth Vader gets his cost retroactively tweaked, to encourage use of the other pilots.

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#12 Droofus

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:06 AM

What if you just played it with the interceptor dial?  It was supposed to be the ship the interceptor was based on, after all.   

 

Given that great dial, I think the advanced would be played more often.


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Spoiler
Imperial:  
Spoiler

#13 Knucklesamwich

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:09 AM

What if you just played it with the interceptor dial?  It was supposed to be the ship the interceptor was based on, after all.   
 
Given that great dial, I think the advanced would be played more often.


That's an interesting idea and would be fun to try.
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#14 MajorJuggler

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:09 AM

What if you just played it with the interceptor dial?  It was supposed to be the ship the interceptor was based on, after all.   

 

Given that great dial, I think the advanced would be played more often.

 

NA. The TIE Advanced is overcosted by 4 points. Way too large of a deficit to make up with merely adding a couple greens onto whites, and adding hard 1 turns.



#15 MacrossVF1

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:16 AM

The TIE advanced cost about 3-4 points too much so the most simple fix is to just lower its point value. No need for unnecessar and complicated fixes other than that. Of course, to make it a bit more special you could go with something like Majorjuggler suggested. Still simple to implement and avoids all the pitfalls that complex homebrew wishlisting usually digs itself far too deep in.

Edited by MacrossVF1, 16 August 2014 - 10:17 AM.

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#16 Rakky Wistol

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:17 AM

The dial is about 1/3 of the problem. We're going to have to see a generic with an EPT and some other love to see this thing fly- low attack, high cost, poor dial... I think the bunch of prototype titles and a generic with an EPT (and the new REBELS inquisitor pilot) will come but will it be enough?

#17 Knucklesamwich

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:21 AM

I don't like just reducing cost because we have seen that already. I think my idea is unique and fits in well. Maybe give a third option of adding some green maneuvers as a choice instead of the extra attack dice kind if like redirecting power to the engines or weapons.

#18 Aminar

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:29 AM

What if you just played it with the interceptor dial?  It was supposed to be the ship the interceptor was based on, after all.   
 
Given that great dial, I think the advanced would be played more often.

 
NA. The TIE Advanced is overcosted by 4 points. Way too large of a deficit to make up with merely adding a couple greens onto whites, and adding hard 1 turns.
I do not buy your 4 points. Not at all. That puts it at 1 point more than the Bomber, and point less than the Interceptor. 1 point for that agility is a steal. At most it is 2 points overcosted. I get your calculations, but you have to look at theoretical balance points. It isn' meant to be as stats efficient as a tie fighter, it has other factors too.

#19 Vorpal Sword

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:32 AM

I have thought many times about what to do to make the not so "advanced" feel advanced. I am considering making my own "Tie Advanced only" modification for use in my casual games.
Redirect Power
Tie Advanced only
At the start of the activation phase you may choose to redirect power to your primary weapon and increase by one attack dice and decrease your agility by one evade dice.
Zero point cost.


Okay, that turns it into an X-wing for the turn. It's basically Expose without the action cost, and we know a lot about how Expose works. So here are my questions:
(1) Is this enough to fix the Advanced? That is, will a Tenpest Squadron Pilot + Redirect Power be a viable choice in your at-home games?
(2) Is this too much to fix the Advanced? That is, does it make Vader overly powerful? What happens if it's combined with Opportunist or Expose? Should it be priced at 0, or is it worth a bump of 1-2 points?
(3) Is it distinct? That is, the design space around Imperial ships with 3 Attack is pretty crowded. Is an Advanced at 3/2/3/2 sufficiently different from other Imperial options, and is it clearly a better or worse choice than an Interceptor with a Hull Upgrade?

Astromechs on the x-wing make it much better then the advanced already for the same point cost. This balances it in my opinion

That's not an answer to any of my questions, though. Your fix passes the initial sniff test, so it's time to start thinking how it interacts with pilot abilities and upgrades, and indirectly, how it interacts with other ships--how does an Advanced with your fix fit in the rest of the faction?

#20 Knucklesamwich

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 10:40 AM

It gives the imperials a cheaper durable fighter or tougher tanky ship all in one that fits in well between the bomber and the defender I think.




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