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What to do with Chaos Marine Armor and Progenoids?


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#1 bphill561

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 09:58 PM

First off we are playing a radical game full of Oblationists with mixed Dark Hershey, Rogue Trader, and Only war characters.  We recently took out quite a few Chaos Marines in ship and more personal combat.  We have enough untainted progenoids (a very small percent of what we collected), weapons, and armor for a dozen marines.

 

My Tech priests current plan with Forbidden Knowledge Astartes, Trade: Forge Master, and Medicae is to convert our Ships complement of Storm Troops into Quasi Space marines over time (using very young people on the ship to undergo the process).  I thought I would restyle the armor as Black Shields to possibly reduce the amount of questions asked.  Maybe with the final result of increases the troop competence level by 10, to keep it simple.

 

Anyone else have any ideas of what we could Chaos Marine Power Armor and Progenoids?  We already got permission from the DM to convert the Legion armor to human sized power armor (with enough time and Tech-Use), but there are no takers.  I might have some fun with the unlimited armor power packs.



#2 Erathia

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 10:23 PM

Even with Forbidden Lore Astartes, I wouldn't allow them to implant progenoids, because most people don't even know how the Space Marine process works. The lack of knowledge about the progenoids is actually an excellent plot point in the Soul Drinkers series. Even if you did though, you'd still lack the knowledge for growing the other 18 organs needed to finish the Space Marine implantation. I am an old crank though.

 

I like the idea of converting the armour into shields and other gear, as that's definitely 40K. Put the bodies in cryo-storage and keep them around for trading with the more heretical Magos Biologis members of the Adeptus Mechanicus.


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#3 Kasatka

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 08:07 AM

Yeah i wouldn't let my players make chaos space marines, that kind of thing is crazy difficult and would require knowledge, talents, equipment and resources that would make even the loftiest RT dynasty cry. At most you could refit the armour for humans (but you wouldn't get all the benefits as you need the black carapace to interface fully with marine armour) so you could treat them as Best Craftsmanship Power Armour suits, but not be able to ignore the penalties to Stealth tests, the increase in Size etc.
The weapons i'd say leave as they are but count them as one step bigger, so Astartes pistol would be Basic, Basic would be Heavy, Heavy wouldn't be man-portable and so become Emplaced and Heavy would need to be vehicle mounted most likely. One handed melee weapons would become two handed and two handed would gain the Unwieldy trait if they didn't already have it and be unusable if it already did.


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#4 bphill561

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 02:10 AM

The implantation process was quite long, but the GM did not seem against it.  My techpriest is already one of the "more heretical Magos Biologis", which was why I do not want to waste any possible resources.  Hmm, maybe we could use them to unlock additional traits available through the genetor.  Worse case scenario we could make sweet meats, or maybe lure out some chaos marines with a trade proposition. 

 

The equipment conversion is pretty easy since we use equipment from all the game books.  Black Crusade has both human and legion stats for most of the gear, including recoil glove craftsmanship options to reduce penalties to using Legion weapons.  No need to house rule the weapon rules.  Also many forms of power armor lack  the Sustainable Power Source on these suits of armor which could be of use.  Legion armor also has armor modifications that include linking a weapon to them for unlimited armor (weapon types beyond what Lathe World Intergrated weapons grant).



#5 Magellan

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 03:00 AM

This doesn't seem profitable to me. Progenoids are far from the only things that make space marines, and you're looking at a decade of training for these recruits even if the process works. Do you have access to the equipment for hypno-indoctrination that teaches space marines how to use their organs? Only one in a hundred space marine candidates actually survives the process.

 

Once you're finished, you're looking at what, a dozen soldiers with unnatural toughness in the very, very best case? One unlucky plasma cannon blast and this entire investment is reduced to nothing. Not to mention that you're committing a heresy that would piss the Inquisition, Mechanicus *and* Space Marines if they found out.

 

If you really want to go through with it, by all means, go through with it. Rogue Trader is all about indulging yourself, but if you want to actually gain something tangible off of this, go give it back to the Mechanicus for a finder's fee.

 

Stuff like unlocking additional traits is impossible for us to speculate on, since you're moving into the realm of arbitrary technobabble magic.


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#6 BaronIveagh

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:25 AM

Point of fact, this has been done in the past in fluff by Radical Inquisitors, so it's not beyond the reach of Rogue Traders,



#7 Radwraith

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 01:29 PM

So Baron, Since this has been done (I'd love to know what story BTW). Is it possible that the RT could get the "nod" from the Adeptus Terra to found a chapter I wonder?

 

I also feel it's possible since one of the Elite advances for an Explorator is the Magos Biologis (Which I would require for the process to even have a chance!). I don't think an actual "Improvement" would be possible though! After all, The Astartes were the best soldiers the Emperor himself could come up with! I seriously doubt any of the player's however augmented, could even begin to match his intellect!

 

Then there's the problem of inbred genetic issues. It seems likely from the fluff that Astartes retain certain genetic memories from the predecessors (IE: the Blood angel's Blood rage.) If your Progenoids come from say, The World eater's legion, You could have some problems!

 

I would say that this endeavor, while hypothetically possible, is probably more trouble then it's worth!



#8 Marwynn

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 04:03 PM

Would hanging the stuff in your trophy room be tacky?

 

Honestly, I'd have a combat servitor wear the armour too.


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#9 Erathia

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 07:24 PM

Would hanging the stuff in your trophy room be tacky?

 

Has anyone ever encountered a Rogue Trader who asked that question?

 

Mine has Chaos Axes wielded by followers of Khorne, Slaanesh and Chaos Undivided in his trophy room. He's out to complete his set. At which point he knows something horrible will probably happen, but he also hopes something interesting will happen.


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#10 BossTroll

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 07:35 AM

Would hanging the stuff in your trophy room be tacky?

 

 

 

Isn't 'tacky' enough reason to hang something in the trophy room all by itself? :)


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#11 Traejun

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 01:38 PM

I would never ever allow my players to "make a space marine."  Certainly not from nothing more than a progenoid gland.  The gene seed is what contains the genetic material that is used to create most of the astartes organ implants.  Gene seed must be harvested quickly and stored properly, or it simply dies - like most genetic material.  Point of fact is that most chaos space marines, especially those from original traitor legion stock, have their progenoid glands so badly mutated that they are no longer even able to use the gene seed to create aspirants/neophytes.  That's why stealing gene seed is something chaos space marines often do from fallen loyalist astartes.  

 

Even assuming the gene seed is stable/usable and properly harvested/stored, the knowledge and equipment necessary to fabricate the organs and implant them is beyond the ability of even the most veteran magos biologis serving aboard an RT's vessel.  That is specialized knowledge that a magos biologis or genetor would spend a lifetime acquiring and then performing.  It's plainly not within the reach of a RT dynasty to do so unless then receive the know-how and equipment somehow.  Even then, if word got out, you'd be enemy number 1 of the Inquisition to the point that there would be nowhere left for your players to hide.  

 

Just say no.  Take the progenoids and sell them as sweet meats or do a dirty deal with some CSMs.

 

As for the power armour... break it down and turn it into best craftsmanship shields/melee weapons.



#12 Wincent

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 12:32 AM

Traejun hit the nail on the subjects of progenoids.

 

As to power armour I advice to hand it over to some loyalist chapter as CSM armour tend to be older and more valuable patterns in exchange for something. If you have enough those armours than maybe you can barter for services of SM squatd.


Edited by Wincent, 20 August 2014 - 06:53 AM.


#13 Nameless2all

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:08 AM

.... If you have enough those armours than maybe you can barter for services of SM squat.

Ohh, SM Squats!  I like the sound of that.  ;)  Totally goes against the fluff, which might gets us declared heretic, but hey, I like your style about going against the grain.


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#14 Nameless2all

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:22 AM

.... If you have enough those armours than maybe you can barter for services of SM squatd.

FFG made you errata that didn't they?  They are always picking on the little guy.  Having Tyranids devour you from the pages of history.  Such a shame that have to stoop so low. 

 

......  :huh:  To much?  :ph34r:


Edited by Nameless2all, 20 August 2014 - 07:23 AM.

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#15 ultrashake

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 01:18 PM

If I were GMing I'd want you to have some more organs to begin the process. Because chaos SM are more often poorly equiped, it would be pretty grimdark for them to not have all their organs or evne poorly grown organs.

 

I know in Black Crusade CSM power armor doesn't have all the features loyal astartes have to show that it's in a state of disrepair, they can get the features but they start off missing them.


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#16 Blood Pact

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 08:15 PM

 

Would hanging the stuff in your trophy room be tacky?

 

Has anyone ever encountered a Rogue Trader who asked that question?

 

Mine has Chaos Axes wielded by followers of Khorne, Slaanesh and Chaos Undivided in his trophy room. He's out to complete his set. At which point he knows something horrible will probably happen, but he also hopes something interesting will happen.

 

 

Mine has a Sand Tiger skeleton that used to belong to the ship's owner. Despite being a big game hunter himself, he's not really bothered by the fact that he didn't kill it (just means he'll have to find a better one!). There's nothing that can't be placed on your mantle for one reason or another (if it's too big to fit, have a bigger mantle installed).

 

As for the Space Marine stuff, honestly it's an interesting idea, but if I was GM I'd be more tempted to have you end up creating some horrible abomination on the first try, if not just encouraging you to sell it for glory and profit. The process of creating a Space Marine isn't even fully understood by most Apothecaries anymore. If I was feeling generous, I'd give you a 1% chance of pulling it off, and maybe make it increase incrementally for each failure that you learned something from.

 

But re-reading the Index Astartes article on it, not only do the nascent Marines need hypnotherapy to activate several of their implants, but they also require constant monitoring and adjustments to their biochemistry, especially for the first several years after implantation. There's a lot of ways for this to go wrong for the people who know what they're doing, a tech-priest dabbling in uncertain knowledge that he's not supposed to have, expecting to get it right on the first try, is a bit of a stretch.


Edited by Blood Pact, 28 August 2014 - 09:02 PM.


#17 Amazing Larry

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 04:18 AM

My answer to the original question:

 

If you have a good backdoor into the highest ranks of the local inquisition or mechanicus then sell the things, also at the time of sale make sure you have a story to tell them about where you got them that wont get you executed on the spot. Otherwise I would suggest destroying them and all evidence of them because as merchandise goes that is WAY too hot.



#18 Kasatka

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 07:12 AM

Yeah think about this - if loyalist chapters will descend upon those foolish enough to steal their equipment and annihilate them if reparations aren't made (return of all gear, tithe of viable recruits, 'donations' to the chapters resources and coffers) then consider how much worse a legion of CSM finding out you've got a load of their gear would be!


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#19 Amazing Larry

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 05:06 AM

I see so many people here talking about groups that seem to go out of their way to get involved in sector politics or even worse the politics of the Adeptis branches. My personal opinion is that's the single worst thing you could ever do, as a RT crew your authority waxes the FARTHER AWAY you are from representatives of the Adeptis and wanes the closer you are to them. Why play some third rate politics at home when there are perfectly  good uncharted worlds out there waiting to be exploited economically? The more you fart around Imperial space around Imperial factions the more likely you are to get drawn into other people's intrigues and wars and that's just not how you make money.



#20 Robin Graves

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 05:26 AM

Untainted progenoids from chaos marines? HERESY!






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