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What happens in this challenge situation?


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#1 andersb25

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:31 AM

Player 1 starts a Mlitary Challenge at Player 2. Player 2 redirects the challenge to Player 3. Player 1 kneels the attacking characters. Then Player 2 plays Locked Away to make one of the characters loose the Military Icon.

 

Is this possible or when is the window for Locked Away? If it is possible will the attacking character that lost his icon withdraw from the challenge? Or must Locked Away be played before Player 1 chooses attacking characters?



#2 Khudzlin

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:49 AM

Your timing is off. You cannot redirect a challenge until it is fully initiated, which means announcing challenge type and defending player and declaring and kneeling attacking characters (nothing but save/cancel responses can get in between - and no relevant ones exist). Player actions are possible before the challenge is declared at all and after it has been redirected (I'm assuming with Crown Regent* - btw, with this title, the attacker chooses the new defending player, not the player with the title). If you remove the icon from a participating character, it changes nothing: you need the icon to declare the character, but it's not checked after that (and the character's STR will count normally).

 

*Varys (Lannister version) has nearly the same timing (it's a response, so it'll come after Crown Regent, which is treated as a passive). The Lord Commander title, however, is a cancel for the declaration of defenders, so it happens much later. Support is treated as a passive to the declaration of defenders, so it happens after Lord Commander.



#3 andersb25

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 02:03 AM

Ok I thought the attack got redirected before kneeling characters but the way you describe makes more sense (it was Crown Regent but with 3 players mistake we I guess it does not make a difference). We did play as the lose of icon did not matter so at least we got that correct :-)

 

I do not understand the last paragraph. What is a passive?



#4 Khudzlin

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 03:05 AM

There are three types of effects in AGoT:

  • triggered effects start with a bold timing descriptor (a phase name, "any phase" or "response")
  • passive effects do not, but start with a description of when they go off (usually "when X happens, do Y")
  • constant effects do not start with either, but they might start with a condition (often "if X" or "while X")

Constant effects are on as long as the card they're on is active (always for an agenda, while it is revealed for a plot, while it is in play for another card) and their condition is true.

Passive effects automatically go off when their condition becomes true.

Triggered effects happen because a player chooses to use them.

You'll find more details in the FAQ.



#5 andersb25

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 03:30 AM

Thanks for the explanation. We have only played two games so it will probably get more clear in the future. But I will definitely read the FAQ.



#6 Slothgodfather

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 08:28 AM

Only two games in and properly deciding that the lose of the icon doesn't change anything is a great start!   No joke.  The icon thing is a common question among new players.

 

As an additional note, you mention that "Then Player 2 plays Locked Away to make one of the characters loose the Military Icon."  Just to be clear, as an attachment, it would need to be played during the marshalling phase.  Then, during any Player Action Window (which is described in the FAQ), that player can kneel an influence to remove an icon of their choice.  Like Khudzlin mentioned before, there is an opportunity for player actions before a challenge is initiated, so that is a good time to use Locked Away's ability - to keep a character from being eligible for a challenge.

 

For quick reference, the FAQ can be found here.

 

Also, if you get extra zealous, over on cardgamedb another player has created a "Comprehensive New Player Guide" post, which can be found here.   It is an excellent source of info.

 

Welcome to the game!


Edited by Slothgodfather, 12 August 2014 - 08:30 AM.


#7 andersb25

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 01:00 AM

Sometimes it helps to have played Magic The Gathering for several years (sometimes though it complicates as I have my mind locked on how it should work in Magic).

 

Oh I did not considered that an attachment has to be played during the marshalling phase! That is quite crucial of course :-)

 

Great guide you linked to!






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