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What do you think a fair counter to turrets would be?


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#1 Nyxen

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:24 PM

Title says it all. Personally, I think an EPT or unique pilot ability that lowered an attacker's dice pool by 1 if defending from outside of their primary arc would be awesome. Perhaps balance it by requiring the user to take a stress to do it or something.


Edited by Nyxen, 05 August 2014 - 05:25 PM.


#2 Eltnot

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:28 PM

The counter to turrets is having more ships.  Turrets cost points, so by extension, any list fielding a turret or in particular multiple turrets will have less damage output.  Consider using cheap ships as blockers (Z-95 or TIE fighters) to block movement, deny actions and then focus fire with the rest of your fleet.


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#3 FTS Gecko

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:30 PM

I'd suggest being able to field lots of cheap ships might work.  Or just lots of attack dice in general, Especially if the turreted ships are relatively expensive and have low agility.

 

But as there's already a multitude of effective counters to turreted ships, what context are you looking at exactly here?  What kind of list would need such a specifically hard-built counter?  A three ship Rebel list, maybe?


Edited by FTS Gecko, 05 August 2014 - 06:14 PM.

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#4 Hobojebus

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:31 PM

Add the starwing gun boat in give a pilot the ability to perform two secondary attacks per turn and you have your anti super falcon ship.


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#5 FTS Gecko

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:33 PM

Add the starwing gun boat in give a pilot the ability to perform two secondary attacks per turn and you have your anti super falcon ship.

 

Or better yet, just take lots of Bombers (or A-Wings, or Z95's) with Cluster Missiles, which already shred anything which can take a turret...


Edited by FTS Gecko, 05 August 2014 - 05:34 PM.

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#6 Nyxen

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:34 PM

To give more context my favorite list to play is a 4X high PS Interceptor build that gets trashed by the current anti-Phantom meta (Falcons and y-wings and ions, Oh My!).



#7 Ryther

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:39 PM

Outmaneuver is already a good start. Falcon gets no defense dice at range 2 or 1 and in that way you can prevent C3PO from triggering. Turret ships are either expensive or weak. Too many people are too worried about Falcons and Phantoms. The E'tan swarm eats falcons. It does pretty good against phantoms, but it is a harder game. The real meta is pretty messy right now. Phantoms and Flacons is going to continue to be a thing, so any list that does well against both is probably the way to go.
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#8 GiraffeandZebra

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:40 PM

The only situation I could accept a "fix" is given the following - the intent is to open up the game a bit for elite maneuverable ships with low hull (e.g. Interceptors) and it were extremely limited in scope (i.e. a unique card, be it a title or a named crew). Something akin to Mauler's ability but for evade dice at range 3 perhaps. Reward skilled flying, staying at range 3 out of primary, with an extra evade die. Or perhaps something that limited gunner's usage against the ship.
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#9 Eltnot

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:40 PM

To give more context my favorite list to play is a 4X high PS Interceptor build that gets trashed by the current anti-Phantom meta (Falcons and y-wings and ions, Oh My!).

Well yeah.  The meta has changed and that sort of list is no longer as dominant as it once was.  Drop two to three of those interceptors for a bunch of TIE's and you will find that you do a lot better.


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#10 Sithborg

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:41 PM

An upgrade that allows your attacks to be more deadly, say by reducing their agility. Or, should I say, Outmaneuver.

 

Seriously, Outmaneuver.


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#11 Hobojebus

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:46 PM

 

Add the starwing gun boat in give a pilot the ability to perform two secondary attacks per turn and you have your anti super falcon ship.

 

Or better yet, just take lots of Bombers (or A-Wings, or Z95's) with Cluster Missiles, which already shred anything which can take a turret...

 

But I want my gunboat! 


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#12 Mace Windu

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:05 PM

unfortunately for you 1 dimensional squads (i.e. all the same ship) are really not viable anymore, save for the tie swarm which is still quite obnoxious.

 

perhaps diversifying your threats (Ships) will net you a better result.

 

Additionally flying squads with 12 total hit points vs squads with 25+ hit points is always going to be an uphill battle no matter how well you fly, sometimes you just roll 3 blanks and your interceptor goes POP!

 

Edit: to answer the original question, the answers are all listed above, you just have to be willing to play them in your squad, Outmaneuver seems to be the most popular one.


Edited by Mace Windu, 05 August 2014 - 06:07 PM.

Rebel Freedom Fighters: 5 Z95, 4 X-Wing, 4 B-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 2 A-Wing, 1 E-Wing, 1 HWK 290 & 1 YT-1300

Imperial Oppressors: 5 TIE Fighter, 4 TIE Bomber, 4 TIE Interceptor, 1 TIE Phantom, 1 TIE Defender, 2 Firespray & 1 Shuttle


#13 FTS Gecko

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:08 PM

High PS isn't that effective against turrets, but it is still useful against most other builds.  If you want to keep flying the 4 x Interceptors against a Falcon list, then you're going to need to accept that arc-dodging won't be your primary method of defense any more - you'll need to rely on other methods of defense, and your goal will need to be to focus fire on the most expensive ship (likely the Falcon), hit it hard, fast and take it down as quickly as possible.

 

As mentioned,  Outmaneuver becomes really valuable against the usual Falcon builds - no defense dice, no advantage from C3P0.  Predator is valuable as well.  PtL is still good, but you won't get as much value out of the Interceptor's movement shenanigans with it.

 

Interceptors can shed stress for fun, so if you'reshort on points Elusiveness can help keep you keep your ships alive long enough to make it count, and can help cause a turreted ship to whiff it's attacks.  Kir Kanos with an Evade token is threatening and distracting, and you can use the Evade for defense if you need to.  Soontir Fel with PtL can still turtle up with evade and double focus and draw aggro.

 

 

But I want my gunboat! 

 

 

We all want our gunboats, but we don't need to wait for it to arrive to effectively counter a Falcon build! ;)


Edited by FTS Gecko, 05 August 2014 - 06:09 PM.

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#14 McBain

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:17 PM

Fair counter for turrets: Modified Tactics.

 

Modified Tactics is a free upgrade that is available to all players and both factions. It requires thought, planning, practice and patience.

 

*Disclaimer: This is not an attack on anyone's X-Wing ability, simply pointing out that thought, planning, practice and patience combined with modifing your usual tactics to different ships you face is a counter to everything you will ever face in X-Wing.

 

Think about how/why/when a turret ship/squad is weak then build your tactical plan (this may include modifying your usual squad) around exploiting that weakness. Practice your piloting skills to allow you to enact your plan to best effect and have patience while you make mistakes and learn.


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#15 Ryther

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 07:01 PM

unfortunately for you 1 dimensional squads (i.e. all the same ship) are really not viable anymore, save for the tie swarm which is still quite obnoxious.
 
perhaps diversifying your threats (Ships) will net you a better result.
 
Additionally flying squads with 12 total hit points vs squads with 25+ hit points is always going to be an uphill battle no matter how well you fly, sometimes you just roll 3 blanks and your interceptor goes POP!
 
Edit: to answer the original question, the answers are all listed above, you just have to be willing to play them in your squad, Outmaneuver seems to be the most popular one.


Three phantom lists are pretty tough. 1 named ACD VI and two stigium/jammer sigmas is pretty strong.
Only 12 HP but 12 -15 reds a turn wrecks on people split between only 3 ships.

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#16 Captain Lackwit

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 07:53 PM

Critical Thought.


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#17 ObiWonka

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:24 PM

Turrets, or at least the most problematic ones, tend to be on large ships (well, one is for now, two more coming). I've been thinking about trying the never-used Proximity Mine to create no-fly zones for Phantoms...I wonder if it might be worth dropping in front of a large ship as well.


Rebel: 2x A-Wing, 2x B-Wing, 2x E-Wing, 2x HWK-290, 4x X-Wing, 2x Y-Wing, 1x YT-1300, 2x Z-95 Headhunter

Imperial: 1x Firespray-31, 1x Lambda Shuttle, 1x TIE Advanced, 2x TIE Bomber, 2x TIE Defender, 6x TIE Fighter, 6x TIE Interceptor, 2x TIE Phantom

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#18 Slugrage

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:51 PM

Flying four ships straight out of Wave 2, with possibly little to no modification, doesn't suggest that the rest of the game needs "fixing". Perhaps squad builds like that simply need some updating.


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Rebel: 1 X, 3 Y, 3 A, 2 B, 2 H, 2 YT-1300, 2 E, 4 Z, 1 CR-90, 1 GR-75, 2 Reb Aces

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#19 UnfairBanana

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:53 PM

Just. Stop. Complaining. All this forum is anymore is "waaaah, turrets are OP!"

 

DEAL WITH IT.

 

Turrets are a part of the game, like it or not. Can't beat 'em? Join 'em. Absolutely NOTHING is stopping you from playing Rebels.


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Empire: 6 TIE/LN, 4 TIE Interceptors, 2 TIE Bombers, 1 TIE Advanced, 2 TIE Defender, 2 TIE Phantom, 2 Firesprays, 1 Lambda


#20 gundamv

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:01 PM

Have a ship that says it cannot be targeted by an enemy ship outside of that enemy ship's firing arc.  Problem solved. (?)


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