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State of the Game and Range Rulers


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#1 reddawn

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:58 PM

Hello fellow WD players.

 

I bought the core set around the time the game came out, but a change of colleges meant a smaller, choosier gaming group, so I couldn't really play.

 

Now that I have a solid group, though, I'm thinking of reintroducing the game, and I'm wondering how this game is doing with sales.  In other words, are people playing this game much?  I like it a lot from my experimentation and some matches, since it offers minis gameplay without the insane cost in time and money the hobby side takes.

 

Also, after a game or two of using the game's range ruler, I found myself using an actual ruler instead.  Is there any errata or competitve rules forbidding this?

 

I realize that using an actual ruler kind of runs counter to the nature of a disc game, but given that the game units, abilities, and ranges are precisely measured (2 inches for small disks, 2.5 for medium, 3 for large, the 3-4-5 split for short-medium-long ranges, etc), I can't imagine that players wouldn't just commit that kind of information to memory anyway.

 

Thanks in advance!



#2 scuy

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:18 AM

Actually the disk are different sizes and you also need to count the edge.

 

The Sizes are as follows: also the sizes are not exactly 2", 2.5" and 3", they are closer to, 2-1/8", 2-1/2" and 3-1/4". I believe the edge is somewhere around 1/8" or less, so when you flip say a 2" disk 5 times you will get (2x5)+(1/8x5)=10-5/8" of movement.

 

Sorry I don't got any of my micrometers with me so my measurements are approximates. =p

 

As how well the game is selling, I don't know but am looking for more players in my area. I just started a few weeks ago.



#3 Jedhead

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 08:58 AM

Tournament play would almost certainly ban the use of a ruler for any reason unless it was the original range ruler or an acrylic one won in a previous tournament.  It could get especially hairy if people are measuring exact charge distances and such, as this definitely goes counter to the game's intent. 

 

That said, for your private gaming group, you are safe to use it if everyone else agrees they want to.  I'm not really clear on why you would want to change the ruler, though, since the one included in the core set seems to do the job just fine.  Are you talking about simply measuring for shooting and magic, etc., or for other purposes as well?


"Much the same sort of talk can still be heard among the orc-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and contempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal vigour, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds strong."  -J.R.R. Tolkien


#4 reddawn

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:21 AM

Tournament play would almost certainly ban the use of a ruler for any reason unless it was the original range ruler or an acrylic one won in a previous tournament.  It could get especially hairy if people are measuring exact charge distances and such, as this definitely goes counter to the game's intent. 

 

That said, for your private gaming group, you are safe to use it if everyone else agrees they want to.  I'm not really clear on why you would want to change the ruler, though, since the one included in the core set seems to do the job just fine.  Are you talking about simply measuring for shooting and magic, etc., or for other purposes as well?

 

 

 

I meant for pretty much everything  :lol:.  I use it probably the most for checking movement, since the range of missle/magic/abilities is already evident on the original ruler.

 

Basically, I realize that an actual ruler reveals hidden information about the game, but I don't really understand why that information should be hidden, honestly.  Competitive players are going to commit that info to memory anyway to gain a leg up on competition, so really it's a question of, "to what degree should players have access to that information at all times?"

 

I acknowledge that in WD, a millimeter can mean the difference between pinning a key enemy unit or falling just short, so it is a real skill to correctly estimate distances...however, I'm not really sure if that kind of mental book-keeping adds to the game.

 

I'm actually not partial either way (since I too will memorize that info in time), I just see that the arguments on both sides have merit.



#5 MechaBri.Zilla

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:55 AM

I certainly wouldn't waste time memorizing that info.  I get better every time I play at 'eye-balling' it, but I wouldn't try to memorize the charge distances.

 

Anyway, measuring of movement has been hotly contested.  In my small group, we don't measure movement.  However, some people are of the mind that since you can measure range at any time, you should also be able to measure movement.  I'm not a fan of this, as it seems to me that it removes a major skill element to the game.  Since Melee is deterministic, and most ranged combat is random (though you can measure the range at any point during your move to remove the chance that you might miss completely.)  This means that the ability to move your units skillfully is extremely important.  Using a ruler to measure that movement removes that need for skill.

 

Also, as you stated, that they didn't make the ranges on the game ruler with any indicators of how far any disk might travel. Because of these design choices it seems to me that the creators of the game intended for the skill part of the game to be in the movement phase.  It's my opinion that if you take that skill out of the game, you are forcing it to stand on it's weakest element, which are the random damage effects.  Since you will always know before starting a move if you can charge or not, you'll never have to take a serious risk with your units, except those you are pressed into by an opponent with strong ranged contingent.  I also feel like you would end up playing seriously defensive games, where no one wants to move into range to be charged by their adversary, and since you'd always know what that charge distance was, people could just dance around each other until ranged units pick your armies apart.

 

Anyway, those are just my opinions.  There is no official stance on this from FFG as far as I'm aware.  The one rule I can think of is that opponents in a tournament have to agree on a single range ruler for both of them to use during the course of their game.  I don't recall if there is anything to say that it must be an official one from FFG, but I wouldn't let my opponent use anything that wasn't.  Not in a tournament anyhow.  In casual play, I'd let you play how you want, as I'm just happy to get a game in.  But if that game counted for anything, there is no way...

 

As for you and your specific group.  It's your game.  Do what makes sense to you and what makes the game fun for all involved.



#6 Jedhead

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:59 AM

Fair enough, and like I said, you can certainly do whatever you want in private games.  In the end, though, it will definitely be forbidden in tournaments.  Whether we feel the a ruler adds to the game or not, the developers seem to think it is not a good thing, as they allow only the official contents of the diskwars sets as admissable materials in a tournament. 

 

On a side note, I would be worried that all of the extra measurement would slow down the game considerably, but maybe it wouldn't have as much of an impact as I fear.

 

If you do use a ruler, let us know how it works out, and if you feel it adds to or detracts from the game!

 

*edit: Ninja'd by MechaBri.Zilla!


Edited by Jedhead, 05 August 2014 - 12:01 PM.

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"Much the same sort of talk can still be heard among the orc-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and contempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal vigour, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds strong."  -J.R.R. Tolkien


#7 reddawn

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:22 PM

Yeah, now that you guys mention it, I do see how using an actual ruler could cause issues in tournament play, probably bogging down game speed.  I would agree that it's not appropriate there.

 

I don't thinking using a real ruler, though, would automatically skew the game in favor of ranged units.  At least in my obviously limited experience using one, the balance appears to even out since melee units can also move the most efficient distances while occupying only the most necessary amount of terrain with which to gain terrain bonuses.  Though, I don't really have the experience to qualify that idea  :wacko: .

 

On a side note...today, I used Intimidate to flip an opponent's Maiden Guard onto a Gully for lethal.  Probably a noob mistake on his part, but it was pretty satisfying nevertheless  :D .  Intimidate would be broken as hell if it hit heroes too...


Edited by reddawn, 05 August 2014 - 12:22 PM.

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