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Eldar and Tyranid Career Path Homebrew


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#1 LodgeBlackman99

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 11:24 PM

Hello all, I've been working the past few weeks on making playable career paths out out of some of the various Xenos races, and was hoping that I might be able to get some feedback from the forum-goers.  I've put together an Eldar and Tyranid career path, with alternate ranks and a bunch of compiled stuff, and wanted to know how you all think the balance is, and what might need to changed around.  There's a link to both on the page below so that with updates this link will still be relevant, threw the page together in about an hour or so a couple days back.

 

http://lodgeblackman...e-trader-guides


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#2 darkforce

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 01:17 AM

Haven't looked at the Eldar-Part yet, but let me give a bit Feedback on the Tyranid-thingy.

 

First, very well done, nice layout, nice design etc. etc. 

Then, the Idea of playing a Genestealer is... unconventional to say the least. I wouldn't allow it in my group (not a friend of XPCs in General), but whatever. 

 

I think the Ymgarl Tyranid Trait sounds like overkill, especially those benefits being due to the absence of the Hive-Mind feels... kinda off, if ever so slightly

 

Oh, and you should probably add a section on the creation of Tyranid-Weapons, since I doubt anyone is able to procure them in a meaningful way :) 



#3 aleandro01

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:33 PM

I alwais wanted to play as a xeno shapeshifter or as an Eldar, so thank you

 

But I have noticed you repeat yourself in the path of the outcast career and in the Corsair Prince alternate rank and that you haven't writed the information in Fallen Suns and Lure of the Expanse. And I wold love to see a table of names and roleplayng tips for Eldar and Ymgarl Genestealer.

 

Can I ask:

1)if you have a date for the Necron Character Guide and what it will contain;

2)if you have in mind to make other guides for other xenos.

 

I'm sorry if my grammatic is a bit lacking but I don't knou English very well.

 

Thanks in advance.



#4 Erathia

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:38 PM

They seem quite interesting, and I like the career paths for Eldar though I'm uncertain about the Genestealer ones. It'd be a pretty interesting campaign to have a crew of hybrids that would probably be better suited for a Black Crusade-ish game.

 

What template did you use to throw the actual documents together? I was hoping I could use some of those for printing up design documents for my group.


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#5 aleandro01

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 01:09 PM

I've noted that you have forgotten the shrieker ammunItIon for shuriken cannons in page 61 of Hostile Acquisition



#6 aleandro01

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 01:16 PM

You've forgotten the Tyranid weapon of page 28-29 of Mark of the Xenos



#7 aleandro01

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:20 PM

I'm sorry for my many posts but the feeding tendrils of the Ymgral say he (or it) can initiate a Grapple with a target up to 1m away but then say "With every successful Opposed Strength Test the Ymgarl makes as part of the Grapple Action, the target is pulled 1m closer, plus a futher 1m for each degree of success".

 

And how the blood drinking of the Ymgarl is supposed to work?

 

Thank you and I'm sorry if my many posts displease you



#8 Marwynn

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:14 PM

This is great, I'll pass it along to our would be Eldar player. Impressed by the quality of pdf.

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#9 LodgeBlackman99

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:06 PM

Thanks for all the great feedback everyone!

 

Darkforce, that's a good point.  I initially was just bringing over the Deathwatch trait, but you're right, the power level doesn't stack up well with other Explorer classes.  I'm going to switch it out for "The Ymgarl Tyranid is immune to Fear, Poisons, and the Toxic Weapon Quality".  Thanks for the design compliment, I'm trying to make it look good in addition to functional.

 

Erathia, I made it myself.  Just set up two columns in LibreOffice Draw with a title above them, put the image in the background, then copy it as needed.  For the various tables I just use LibreOffice Calc.

 

Aleandro01, firstly a huge thanks!  You found some stuff that I hadn't even thought to look for, I really appreciate it.  I left out the Lure of the Expanse and Fallen Suns stuff because it's all specific to that adventure, and I'm trying to keep these guides as vague as possible so that anyone can pick and adapt what they like.  You're totally right, I completely missed the shrieker ammo, going to have to add that in. 

      Good catch on that and the Feeding Tendrils thing, it's the same rules as flesh hooks, but with the reduced range I didn't take out the last part.  I wasn't planning on the feeding itself having any effects beyond just being done to survive, mainly happening after they kill someone with their natural weapons.  Not sure how I'd represent it off hand, maybe a small amount of toughness damage or fatigue.  I'll see what I can come up with.  In regards to how it works presenty, they just have to ingest the amount listed under the "Hunger" talent within the time limitations specified or they begin to risk going feral and feeding crazy.

      The Mark of Xenos weapons are actually in there, just compiled into one table and re-alphabetized. 

      I'm not sure when I'm going to have the Necron guide done, but I did just spend most of the day working on it.  It may only take a couple more days, might take a month.  I'm shooting to get it done asap though, so that it can join the others.

 

Marwynn, thank you for the compliment!  I wanted to make sure the guide was visually appealing as well, glad it worked out.  Let me know if your friend notices anything off about it balance wise or typo-wise.

 

Again, a huge thanks to everyone for the feedback, I've been trying to get some for a few days now, and now that there is some I can get started on fixing it.

 

Beyond just the initial impressions, how would you all rank these career paths with the existing official ones?  Is the skill set and talent spread allright or are some talents out of place?  One of the reasons why I started these projects in the first place was that the only existing rules I could find for any of these as playable races were, at best, problematic with balance, so I want to make sure that's not a concern with mine.  Also, as was mentioned above, there's probably a few typos here and there in the guide, since they are all a one person project.  If you see anything off, just let me know!


Edited by LodgeBlackman99, 04 August 2014 - 10:20 PM.


#10 aleandro01

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:41 AM

The only problem that I've noted is the fact that the Ymgar has got a five more in is characteristic (calculate them) and why him has got only one fate point?

Everithing else seem ok.



#11 LodgeBlackman99

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 02:23 PM

Aleandro01, Excellent catch! it's because the Multiple Arms trait gives +10 toughness, I forgot to go back and remove 5 from either Toughness or a different stat.  They only have one fate point because Tyranids, like the Tau, do not have an incredibly strong warp connection inherently, and as such are not able to play with the fates to nearly such a degree.  It's also to offset some of the very nice abilities that they obtain throughout their career path.

 

In regards to your other question: The Necron Character Guide first draft is now available! I'd love any feedback regarding balance, unclear rulings, or anything else, just like the previous two.  Hope this meets expectations, and again a huge thanks to everyone for giving these a look.  I really appreciate the feedback.

 

The edits to the other guides should be done within the next week or two at the most, as my goal is to finish them before other responsibilities become more prevalent.

 

Update: First round of edits has been completed. I've said it a lot, but thanks again for all the feedback, it's been an incredible help!


Edited by LodgeBlackman99, 07 August 2014 - 12:27 AM.


#12 SirFrog

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 12:37 AM

I'll look at these when I have a moment, but until then, you might want to look at this thread:

 

http://community.fan...ic/11177-fonts/



#13 aleandro01

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:32 AM

I've read the Necron Character Guide. First, I think that the Reawakened Necron could be a mine of diamond for a skilled roleplayer and is a good way to explain a Necron of Rogue Trader power level. I've noted that you in is characterstics speak of Ymgarl Genestealer and in Well Adapted why the two skills have a -10 penalty. You haven't used the rules for using Necron equipment and the Necron items in Tome of Fate or Fear and Loathing (the items).

 

For the other guides what if we change the Eldar talents about the Paths to instead represent remembering the past paths? I've read somewere that the eldar forgot the past path upon travelling another. In your opinion, could it work if we change the Path-related talent to cost - 100xp (is more easy remember than learn) but plus 1 or 1d5 Insanity point (you are abandoning the ways of the Craftworld and this isn't good for your mind).

Another thing to help you, I've eard that many of the autor of homebrew Eldar have problem with their innate psychic ability.To help you I've found the part of the warhammer 40k rogue trader compilation that explain their psychic power and it say that some Eldar have psychomorpysm or the ability to shape matter and create simple artifact from raw materials (count as having alwais appropriate instruments for crafting test?). Other can move small object with their mind (as with the first part of Mind over Matter but only with 1 kg?). And other have a form of empathic telepaty (learning the mood of other as in Mind Probe but only the mood and can work with everithing living, even plants? For contacting living without Willpower made an Hard (-20) Willpower test?). I wold love to post the part of the compilation but I don't know how.

 

And shouldn't be better to change the Leader of Outcast to Noble because a Farseer who take it problably isn't a leader of outcast. For the same motive I wold recomend to change everytime the talents say the Outcast to the Eldar or the Explorer.

And what if the Seers, instead of Outcast Weapon Training gain Seer Weapon Training and are proficient in using Shuriken Pistol, Shuriken Catapult, Shuriken Cannon, Singing Spear, Witchblade, Eldar Plasma Grenade, Xenofilament Grenade, as well as Primitive and Melee Weapons.

 

I don't think that the Eldar gain mutations, and if instead they gain a -1d10 to a characteristic rolled to resist to the "mutation" chosen by the GM, by the player or by chance?

 

Soul Reaver says that "an Eldar or a human attempting to pass as the other suffers a –30 penalty to any uses of the Disguise Skill he makes against the Scrutiny Skill of a member of the race he is impersonating."

 

The cost of the weapons seems for human explorer and setlements. In my opinion the Ymgarl should get a +20 by himself (or itself (but an Ymgarl is an he, a she, an it or a s/he) (the Ymgarl know were to find is kin) while the other races should get a +20 in theyr setlements.

 

If all of this seem confusing well, it's just a bunch of ideas that occurred while I was writing



#14 LodgeBlackman99

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 07:00 PM

Thanks for the feedback again!  I'm glad you like the lore I used for the Necrons, I was trying to go for an option that would allow for any version of the lore to apply.

 

The reason there's a penalty applied is so as to not invalidate the other options on the page.  I've been considering changing out that to "The player must devise a reasonable backstory to explain these skills, and the GM Has the final say in which skills are appropriate for this choice."

 

I'm not including Black Crusade and Fear and Loathing gear because in my own experience, the BC and FL gear is unbalanced.  There's also the issue of converting over variant versions of weapon qualities and re-balancing them, so if you want to use the gear presented in those sources, go ahead, but I'm keeping it to official sources from the first 3 FFG games.

 

I actually have been thinking about how I would replace the talent, and I think I'm going to change it to Lost Nobility instead of Leader of Outcasts.  It definitely fits better that way. 

 

I toyed around with the concept of adding Eldar abilities like that, but it was too much of a hassle and I didn't want to give them too many advantages over human Explorers.  Additionally, Corsairs in each example in all the Rogue Trader books do not have those abilities and I'm trying to make these career paths such that you can create any version of the Eldar, Necron, and Tyranid creatures present in Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Deathwatch.  Those abilities are also more of a Craftworld Eldar thing, so I didn't feel too bad about not including them, since Outcasts do not follow the same style of learning, and wandering Farseers eventually develop those kinds of abilities on their own.

 

The Weapon Training being done the way it was was, again, a balancing issue.  Witchblades can be incredibly powerful, and take some time to be able to use to their full potential, reflected by the individual Exotic Weapon Training Talents.

 

Since they lack the inherent structure and stability of the Craftworld, I see mutations and functioning normally for Outcasts, who may eventually become even more Dark-Eldar esque over time.  That's a danger the outcast faces, and part of the Path of Damnation that is incredibly dangerous for Outcasts.

 

In regards to disguise: depending on the individual Eldar's or Human's body type, that might not be the case.  An additional penalty for Dark Eldar makes sense due to the scarring, distinctive ornamentation and revealing garb, but I'm leaving the rest up to variable difficulties as described in the Core Rulebook.  It seemed unnecessary to add in a ruling regarding that, so it's left up to the GM.

 

In regards to Acquisition, that is covered under the Acquiring Items section in the Core Rulebook.  If the GM feels like there ought to be bonuses to the Commerce roll to find the item, Barter Roll to obtain the item, and Profit Factor Test to obtain the item, then those modifiers are listed there.  Like above, it's left to the GM because those modifiers are covered in the Core Rulebook.  It's also worth noting that the gear listed should be incredily hard to find, because the Ymgarl and Necron presence in the Expanse is incredibly small.

 

They're all good ideas if you want to implement them while using these guides, but I'm trying to not clutter up the rules with additional conditional modifiers when they're already covered in other sources.

 

Update: Finished changes in the Eldar and Necron guides, added their changes to the ones from earlier today.


Edited by LodgeBlackman99, 07 August 2014 - 08:06 PM.


#15 Theofonias

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 07:45 PM

Here is the Children of Isha supplement created by one time content writer N0-1_H3r3.



#16 aleandro01

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 04:48 PM

 

 

I'm not including Black Crusade and Fear and Loathing gear because in my own experience, the BC and FL gear is unbalanced.  There's also the issue of converting over variant versions of weapon qualities and re-balancing them, so if you want to use the gear presented in those sources, go ahead, but I'm keeping it to official sources from the first 3 FFG games.

I suppose that makes sense, after all the Black Crusade gear was usable by PC only if they take severe limitation.

 

 

 

I toyed around with the concept of adding Eldar abilities like that, but it was too much of a hassle and I didn't want to give them too many advantages over human Explorers.  Additionally, Corsairs in each example in all the Rogue Trader books do not have those abilities and I'm trying to make these career paths such that you can create any version of the Eldar, Necron, and Tyranid creatures present in Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Deathwatch.  Those abilities are also more of a Craftworld Eldar thing, so I didn't feel too bad about not including them, since Outcasts do not follow the same style of learning, and wandering Farseers eventually develop those kinds of abilities on their own.

In fact after I've finished to write I remembered of Eldritch Mastery and is maw of Slanessh part. A good motive for not using your innate psionic power.

 

The Weapon Training being done the way it was was, again, a balancing issue.  Witchblades can be incredibly powerful, and take some time to be able to use to their full potential, reflected by the individual Exotic Weapon Training Talents.

I have got little practical experience so... But I don't think that a Craftoworlder Seer know how to use Splinter Weapon. A Void-dreamer yes but for the other maybe you could use the Lasblaster, the Sunrifle and (I'm not sure) the Eldar Powersword at their and Ranger Long Rifle places?

 

 

Since they lack the inherent structure and stability of the Craftworld, I see mutations and functioning normally for Outcasts, who may eventually become even more Dark-Eldar esque over time.  That's a danger the outcast faces, and part of the Path of Damnation that is incredibly dangerous for Outcasts.

In the Soul Reaver you can see that the Dark Eldar use Corruption to represent the griph of Slanessh in their soul and my suggestion was based upon that but about Insanity it says "their outlook on existence and their normal behaviour are already completely beyond the realms of what a human would consider sane." So to represent how Dark your Eldar is maybe we should consider that with insanities that represents is wyld desires.

I should say that I intended to replace the mutations (Slanessh devour your soul), not the malignacies (general attention of the Chaos).



#17 LodgeBlackman99

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 03:45 AM

In regards to the Weapon Training, remember that these are supposed to be Outcast Seers that are exploring their gifts in different ways compared to the Craftworld Eldar.  If they were Craftworld Seers, then the weapon training might be different, but as it stands I thought it made more sense that they would be most familiar with Outcast weaponry then pick up the Witchblade proficiencies later on through training and practice.

 

The Dark Eldar comparison isn't bad, but remember that Dark Eldar have the Power through Pain ability that becomes more difficult as corruption is gained to represent the downward spiral.  This is a mark of the effective resiliency they gain from indulging in the acts that they do. That does not translate to the origin presented to regular Eldar, firstly because they do not have the same resiliency, and secondly because mechanically it would not be represented the same.  Fluff wise it also makes sense because there is no actual lore on the effects of the Path of Damnation, so mutations provide an excellent way to describe it, and there isn't any lore saying that Eldar can't gain mutations that I can find.



#18 aleandro01

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 06:45 AM

 

 

In regards to the Weapon Training, remember that these are supposed to be Outcast Seers that are exploring their gifts in different ways compared to the Craftworld Eldar.  If they were Craftworld Seers, then the weapon training might be different, but as it stands I thought it made more sense that they would be most familiar with Outcast weaponry then pick up the Witchblade proficiencies later on through training and practice.

For what I've read in your guide there is nothing that say you can't play as a Craftworlder Seer who follow a Rogue Trader because a vision told him that doing so will help is people but hey, it's your guide, if you say it represent only Outcast Seers, it represent only Outcast Seers just please write it bigger the next time.

Another thing, you have said that Path of the Outcast could be used to represent an Aspect Warrior and why him should be preficient to splinter weapon?

 

 

The Dark Eldar comparison isn't bad, but remember that Dark Eldar have the Power through Pain ability that becomes more difficult as corruption is gained to represent the downward spiral.  This is a mark of the effective resiliency they gain from indulging in the acts that they do. That does not translate to the origin presented to regular Eldar, firstly because they do not have the same resiliency, and secondly because mechanically it would not be represented the same.  Fluff wise it also makes sense because there is no actual lore on the effects of the Path of Damnation, so mutations provide an excellent way to describe it, and there isn't any lore saying that Eldar can't gain mutations that I can find.

I must confess I'm confused, haven't you said:

 

 

Since they lack the inherent structure and stability of the Craftworld, I see mutations and functioning normally for Outcasts, who may eventually become even more Dark-Eldar esque over time.  That's a danger the outcast faces, and part of the Path of Damnation that is incredibly dangerous for Outcasts.

and I thought when you said Path of Damnation you meant becoming Dark Eldar and Insanity could be used to represent that. By the way there are information for the Path of Damnation (Creatures Anathema pag. 80) and they says:

 

There is a dark side to the Path of Wandering, however, and not all that become lost on it become Pathfinders. The dark urges that led to the Fall of the Eldar lurk in their hearts still, and only through strict discipline can they be kept under control. Those individuals that walk the Path of Wandering are inherently passionate, and not all find that the path sates such urges. Instead of exploration, those Eldar give themselves

up to experience, lust replacing wanderlust and arrogance, and excess triumphing over ambition and discipline. The Path of Damnation is the dark side of the Path of Wandering, and those exiles that find themselves walking it do so knowing that there can never be any way back. They live amongst the lesser races, indulging in excesses that become ever more extreme. Some are content to languish in obscurity, whereas others seek to gather followers about them, lesser creatures upon which the darkest desires of an Eldar’s soul can be enacted. It is perhaps fitting, then, that the task of tracking and slaying such depraved Eldar falls to the Pathfinders and Rangers that hold true.

There is lore that say the Eldar can't gain mutation and is Xenology. The book in fact say that the fossil of an Eldar ten milions of year old and an Eldar of the 41st millennium were identical. No changes nor mutations.

And about the protection of the Dark Eldar well... to represent that I've decided to mantain malignacies, altrough it wasn't that oblivious in the precedent posts.

 

Anyway, what is your opinion about the Remembering the Path stuff?

 

I've noted some errors in the Alternate Career Ranks

  1. the Corsair Prince and the Harlequin as Leader of Outcasts as requirement
  2. the Bonesinger as one special rule that say: "a Bonesinger may Common Lore (Tech) and Forbidden Lore (Archeotech) in regards to Wraithbone". I think there is an omission between may and Common Lore.

About the Harlequin: shouldn't they get Exotic Weapon Training (Harlequin's Kiss) when they become Harley or in their progression?

Is okay to represent the Ritual as only an Eldar of less than 10 Corruption Point could become an Harlequin" considering the very real risk of losing your soul to Slanessh?

 

Aaaand, some questions about the Ymgarl:

  1. Can an Ymgarl Shapeshifting to a form that as a Fear rating?
  2. Should they gain a bonus to Contortionist for they Shapeshifting?


#19 aleandro01

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 06:58 AM

Okay, it seems that when I tried to edit my previous post I have deleted it. For those who haven't readed it I have offered the option for Craftworlder: instead of Splinter Weapon and Ranger Rifle Lasblaster, Sunrifle and Eldar powersword.

I have used the Dark Eldar as an explanation of why the Eldar should get corruption in a different way.

 

Another thing: do you have plans for other guides?



#20 LodgeBlackman99

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 03:15 PM

Good eyes Aleandro01, and thanks again for the scrutiny, these are some more great points!

 

You're completely right, I meant to clarify that it is meant to represent wandering seers, and I thought I had included that in the guide, looks like I missed that section.  Definitely going to have to add that in. 

 

The outcasts are proficient with the Splinter weapons because it is implied they have the proficiency via lore and the weapon options presented in The Koronus Bestiary.  Lore wise it was done because Aspect Warriors spend time on a path before becoming lost on it, and Guardians/Corsairs represent the start of that, and they have proficiency with Splinter weapons.  They would keep this proficiency as they progressed and became lost on the path, and may not utilize their other weapons as often, but would still retain the proficiency.  This is further evidenced by the fact that the majority of Aspect Warriors still carry a Splinter Weapon as evidenced by their profiles in the Koronus Bestiary.

 

When I wrote that about the Dark Eldar comparison, what I meant was that they become more hedonistic and depraved as they give into the will of Slaanesh.  I'm sorry about that, a total lack of clarification on my part.  An interesting point though, while fossils of Eldar who have resisted temptation have been found, who is to say that corrupted Eldar do not become daemonettes and other minions of Slaanesh once they obtain enough mutations and corruption?  After all, there are fossils of humans that do not have any mutations that are likely found all the time, yet we can gain them.  We wouldn't really find any fossils of them then because they would return to the warp when killed.  That's why I feel Mutations serve as an excellent way to describe their fall as they indulge their compulsions, eventually being overtaken by the influence of Slaanesh, as the final end of succumbing to this path is very much unclear, just that they do begin to fall prey to the same desires that brought about that dark god's birth in the first place.

 

In regards to Remembering the Path, I think the cost is justified being high because of what being truly devoted to a path means for an Eldar.  Traversing multiple paths at the same time is not something that is often done due to fear of corruption.  It's not a bad idea for Craftworld Eldar to include the Insanity, but for Outcasts, their nature is a fickle and rebellious one by definition so I don't see it making much sense.  The cost is more but it does not come with any penalties because traversing multiple paths makes sense for an Outcast to do.

 

I'm not planning to give any Alternate Ranks free stuff for entering them, because the role-playing aspect is supposed to be the motivation, not free talents.  I've unfortunately gamed with far too many people who would select alt ranks just for that with no concern for appropriateness to the character.  I will either make it a requirement for the alt rank or put it in there as an exotic weapon training though, didn't realize that I hadn't done that.

 

Good catch on the alt rank requirements, I completely forgot to change those when I changed the talent.  And you're right about the Bonesinger too, there should be a 'use' in there.

 

For the Ymgarl, I represented that by their ability to gain the Fear trait as they advance in Rank, and the fact that one of their first +20 skills is Contortionist.  If a GM feels that they should be able to gain a temporary Fear Rating or a bonus to Contortionist based on how they describe themselves using the ability they can allow it, but I'm not including any special rules inherently for those.

 

Thanks again for the feedback, this really helps get the guides straight, and lets me explain and re-examine some of the choices I made in making them.

 

I'll be honest, the interest in making other guides is flattering, I wasn't sure how these would be recieved, and I'm ecstatic it's been positive.  I had a couple of guides in mind.  For Rogue Trader I was thinking a 'Lesser Xenos Races' guide to allow those to be played, and maybe working out Tyrannic and Necron Starship rules and adding those into the existing guides.

 

I have also been thinking about doing some Dark Heresy guides next, was thinking about a Scum Guide and a Guard Guide since those never got published, but don't really have any real plans other than basic ideas for those at this point.

 

For the Deathwatch game that I run, I made some Chapter Advances for the nine Traitor Legions, and was going to make Alternate Ranks for the chaos specializations (Noise Marine, Khorne Berserker, Plague Marine, Obliterator, Posessed, and so on) so that people could use Deathwatch to do Chaos Marines, or build them as opponents to oppose Loyalists.

 

Update: Fixed all the listed changes to the Eldar Character Guide, thanks again!

 

Update 2: Also added in a bunch of new Necron content, including a new Alternate Rank and new weapons and gear after talking with Crystal Geyser, who was also making a Necron guide.


Edited by LodgeBlackman99, 09 August 2014 - 09:41 PM.





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