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How is Grisban underpowered?


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#21 Alarmed

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 06:04 AM

 

Since Grisban’s ability only activates at the end of his turn, it is useless against Immobilize, and is technically useless against Poison because of his Strength.  Weakened is removed by resting, so the ability won’t affect it.

 

Stun, Burning and Bleeding take an action to discard, so using a rest action to lose them is a bit pointless unless you needed to rest anyways and stun forces you to use your first action anyways.

 

It would still be good against Cursed, Diseased and Doomed.

 

It's in the errata. His ability activates as soon as you declare a rest action: you have to wait until the end of your turn to get the fatigue back, but the condition is gone immediately.

 

I missed that one. But at least, the more expansions we get, the more conditiones there are that he can use his ability against. :lol:

 

Still not as good an ability as most other characters, though.



#22 amoshias

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:24 AM

Yup. His ability isn't that bad since he can negate immobilize for an action, and since he is performing rest actions fairly regularly it makes sense to spend a few fatigue to increase his move actions. Combined with his heartiness, he is not a bad knight- and restricting ourselves to base game, let's not forget that the knight skills pair badly with Syndrael's hero ability.

Knight skills don't pair any worse than any other skills. Remember, the Knight doesn't have to move to use Advance, and isn't going to move if everything he needs to attack is right next to him. Knights don't MOVE more than anyone else, they just spend fewer actions doing it. Skirmisher is the class that NEEDS to move to activate its most powerful ability.



#23 Zaltyre

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 10:19 AM

The knight base skill is move and attack for one action. You do not need to move, sure, but then what is the point? And what OL is going to leave all of his monsters adjacent to the party heavy hitter?

Movement is not necessary for knights, but if you are not moving, you sacrifice one of the class's greatest strengths. The same is true of skirmishers. Syndrael would also be an odd choice for skirmisher.

Grisban is not a fabulous hero- I'm not claiming otherwise, only that being classed as a knight supports his character as the class skills help him move. Skirmisher would help him move as well, but he is unlikely to be defeated often enough to benefit from some of those skills.

#24 Covered in Weasels

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 10:57 AM

Syndrael's ability does work with Oath of Honor. Since the figure is placed instead of moved, she would still get to recover some more fatigue at the end of her turn even if she used Oath. IMO that makes her a solid Knight. Am I misunderstanding this, or is that correct?

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#25 Zaltyre

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 11:33 AM

No. It has been ruled that "moved" basically just means you changed spaces at any point during your turn. They don't work together. In my opinion, that is a big negative to using her as a knight.

#26 Carbini

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 04:37 PM

No. It has been ruled that "moved" basically just means you changed spaces at any point during your turn. They don't work together. In my opinion, that is a big negative to using her as a knight.

Yea weasels this is a common mistake because everyone thinks "ok so why would they make her the knight if those two abilities didn't work together..."

Tis unfortunate but nay. She makes a great beast master though if you ever pick up the expansions! :D



#27 Covered in Weasels

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:27 PM

 

No. It has been ruled that "moved" basically just means you changed spaces at any point during your turn. They don't work together. In my opinion, that is a big negative to using her as a knight.

Yea weasels this is a common mistake because everyone thinks "ok so why would they make her the knight if those two abilities didn't work together..."

Tis unfortunate but nay. She makes a great beast master though if you ever pick up the expansions! :D

 

 

Oh, that's unfortunate; Syndrael now seems a whole lot less exciting as a Knight. If the OL parks his monsters right in front of Syndrael she can whale away at them for a turn and recover some fatigue, but I haven't seen many situations where this happens. She'd work better if you picked up a Reach weapon (or played a Beastmaster :D ).


Do not ask why you serve.  Only ask how.

 

Synonymous names include: Buried in Ferrets, Enveloped by Ermine.

Currently GMing a Dark Heresy 2.0 game and inflicting untold misery upon Martin Lockheed and company.


#28 rugal

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:51 PM

yes, I was thinking the same, as a beastmaster.



#29 Whitewing

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 08:27 PM

I think it's okay that Syndrael's hero ability doesn't come into play that often, she has the best heroic feat in the game.



#30 rugal

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:36 AM

I think it's okay that Syndrael's hero ability doesn't come into play that often, she has the best heroic feat in the game.

 

Not so sure. Mo'k's one is really strong, if not better.



#31 amoshias

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:53 AM

Rugal - The number of games you will straight-out win due to the immense strategic advantage Syndrael's heroic feat gives you is significant. Mok discards a card from the OL's hand; sometimes this will be great. I won't argue that there are undoubtedly situations where this will win a game for the heroes. Those will be rare and extremely far between, though.

 

Not saying Mok - even after two nerfs - isn't incredibly powerful. But it's his hero ability, not his heroic feat, that's powerful.



#32 BentoSan

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:00 AM

I think it's okay that Syndrael's hero ability doesn't come into play that often, she has the best heroic feat in the game.


His heroic is wonderful, certainly worthy of being called one of the best in the game. A group centred around fatigue regeneration and movement with heroic actions like his is a very very powerful combination against an OL.

Synderael (warrior), Jain Wildlander (rogue), High mage Quellen (mage) are all able to move incredible amounts with their heroic abilities, being able to use burst movement certainly gives the heroes a massive edge. Their relatively low strength can be bolstered by items (to avoid web-traps) and to make sure the healer is able to remove a condition for at least a single target such as Avric Albright(healer) as Disciple. You could choose instead choose a different health with more strength to make the use of web-trap even less tempting to the OL.

Grisbane on the other hand is painfully painfully slow and i find him unable to keep up in groups where i like to do a lot of burst movement.

Edited by BentoSan, 11 August 2014 - 11:01 AM.


#33 Carbini

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 12:11 PM

Elder Mok as a bard... because SYNERGY!



#34 Zaltyre

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:57 PM

Elder Mok as a bard... because SYNERGY!

I'm fighting one of those right now, it's actually quite a good combination. He uses the lute "for free" every round.


Edited by Zaltyre, 11 August 2014 - 05:57 PM.


#35 Carbini

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:29 PM

 

Elder Mok as a bard... because SYNERGY!

I'm fighting one of those right now, it's actually quite a good combination. He uses the lute "for free" every round.

 

Yup, or just sing the heal song or the stamina song. Stamina song now gives you stamina too.:)

 

Sell that lute to buy more loot!






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