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Is this game worth starting now?


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#1 Gorrath

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:18 AM

I just decided I'll get into LCGs.

Unless it's very bad, I'll play Warhammer 40k: Conquest when it comes out and I'll probably also play Netrunner since I've heard so many great things about it.

 

But what about Star Wars?

I saw some reviews from back when it just came out but would like to know how good it is now after all the expansions?

Besides the theme, is there anything in this game worth playing over Netrunner?

Is it still a strong game or is it dying?

 

Thanks

 

Patrick



#2 Toqtamish

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:33 AM

Game is going strong but like every card game some areas are better than others.

Meta right now is in it's strongest place ever. There is tons of different deck options out there.

Yes it is worth picking up.
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#3 Budgernaut

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:34 AM

I like this game a whole lot better than Netrunner, but then, you are asking this on a SW:TCG forum.

 

Star Wars has never been as big as Netrunner, so I wouldn't say it's dying. For every person dropping the game, it seems there are one or two more looking to pick it up. I do think that the Star Wars title means a lot more casual players collect Star Wars than for other LCGs, but I have no evidence to back that up.

 

As to your question about whether there is anything worth playing over Netrunner, I think that depends greatly on what you think Netrunner's qualities are. For one thing, Star Wars is a lot more visceral. You see units getting deployed and destroyed. You can feel the ebb and flow of battle. In Netrunner, it's slightly more abstracted and feels much more mind-gamey to me. So if you want combat, Star Wars is good. If you want mind games, Netrunner trumps. But both have their fair share of bluffing, though again, Star Wars falls a little behind Netrunner in the amount of bluffing. I haven't been keeping up with Warhammer 40k announcements, so I don't know how combat works, but it's possible that if you want that unit-to-unit combat, Warhammer 40k could cover that base for you, making Star Wars redundant in that respect.

 

Why do I like Star Wars? Well, it doesn't play as much to the mind games of Netrunner, but it does take a lot of thought. The combat phase is like a puzzle as you try to predict how your opponent will allocate his forces for defense when you attack. Sometimes you want to invest more attackers than you need to draw out more defenders. Other times you send a small force to see if you can get him to spend a defender there or you just get free damage.

 

You're also trying to balance a lot of things. You want to have a strong board presence, so you need to play cards from your hand. But cards in your hand also power your edge battles, and if you don't have a strong hand for the edge battles, your units will not be as effective in battle. And while focused on these two aspects of conflict, you also need to watch the Force

Struggle to make sure you can keep the balance of the Force with your side. I love all these moving parts.

 

Another thing I love is the hand-draw rule where you draw up to your reserve every turn. It really lets luck take a back seat to strategy and tactics. It's fantastic!


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#4 Gorrath

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:41 AM

Wow! Thanks for that detailed answer. It helps a lot!

 

I played 2 games of Netrunner last week, was really cool but it lacks the "cool factor" of playing cards from a well known setting.

Doesn't have the same impact when you play "insert Netrunner random card name here" as when you put a Darth Vader on the table lol



#5 Conradj

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:47 AM

If you like the original trilogy and the expanded universe, this game is a must.  Its still fairly young as LCG's go as well, although there's still a fair amount to buy to have all the cards.  There's videos online of people playing so you can learn strategies pretty quick, I'd reccomend watching Team Covenant's you tube video's they commentate their matches which really helps new comers in the game :)



#6 GroggyGolem

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 10:31 AM

I definitely recommend you play Star Wars: The Card Game. Like Toqtamish said, the meta has never been stronger right now, and there's a good variety of cards with much more on the way. The quantity of strategies and choices is truly engaging and fun. I would say the game mechanics are easier to learn but harder to master than Netrunner because there are many more choices on any given turn. If theme was the only reason to play Star Wars: The Card Game and the gameplay was poor, I would have stopped playing it a long time ago. Thankfully, the gameplay is just as fun to me as the theme and they do well to compliment each other. For example, this newest cycle of Force Packs has been about making the Force Struggle bigger in the mechanics of the game. It also has aided the theme as well, with each faction adding to their side of the Force in different ways that represent the their faction thematically.


Edited by GroggyGolem, 30 July 2014 - 10:32 AM.

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Rebels: 3 X-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 1 A-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 YT-1300

Imperials: 5 TIE/LN, 1 TIE/ADV, 1 TIE/IN, 1 Firespray-31


#7 Budgernaut

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 11:22 AM

Another thought to add. When I play Netrunner, I feel like I'm taking on a role. I am a Runner trying to get my kit together so I can hack some servers. As the Corp, I'm trying to keep my servers safe from lawless runners. Whatever identity I've chosen at the beginning of the game, I feel like I play that role as I play my cards. It makes sense that as the Runner, I am choosing which Ice Breakers to play. 

 

Star Wars doesn't have this element. The characters, vehicles and other cards have a very strong and familiar theme, but as a player, you don't have a clear role. I mean, what role would the player have to be for them to be commanding Emperor Palpatine or Yoda around?! This has turned some people off from the game but doesn't seem to bother others. I view the player's role in Star Wars as a hybrid of being the director of a movie (you can be George Lucas!) and playing as the Force itself for one side or the other, influencing galactic events through critical engagements.


"There is a fine line between neutral and amoral. In fact, there may be no line there at all."

--Count Dooku


#8 weaponxmerc

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 11:48 AM

I agree that now is probably a great time to start. With the amount of cards available there are a lot of different deck options, but there aren't SO many sets available that it's completely overwhelming/impractical to catch up. Plus it is just a lot of fun. 


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#9 GroggyGolem

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 12:33 PM

Another thought to add. When I play Netrunner, I feel like I'm taking on a role. I am a Runner trying to get my kit together so I can hack some servers. As the Corp, I'm trying to keep my servers safe from lawless runners. Whatever identity I've chosen at the beginning of the game, I feel like I play that role as I play my cards. It makes sense that as the Runner, I am choosing which Ice Breakers to play. 

 

Star Wars doesn't have this element. The characters, vehicles and other cards have a very strong and familiar theme, but as a player, you don't have a clear role. I mean, what role would the player have to be for them to be commanding Emperor Palpatine or Yoda around?! This has turned some people off from the game but doesn't seem to bother others. I view the player's role in Star Wars as a hybrid of being the director of a movie (you can be George Lucas!) and playing as the Force itself for one side or the other, influencing galactic events through critical engagements.

The way that FFG describes it is that you are playing for the Light/Dark Side of the Force itself. Those are your clear roles.

 

All the cards you play, whether Jedi/Rebel/Smuggler or even Neutral do aid the Light Side, which fits the way things played out in the OT. Though Han and Chewy were not Rebels, they eventually came to their aid and Han became a General in the Galactic Civil War. Luke was primarily a Jedi throughout his journey but he was also an excellent Rebel Pilot. On the opposite side of the Force, Vader was both a Sith Lord and Supreme Commander of the Imperial Fleet. Palpatine was both THE Dark Lord of the Sith and the Galactic Emperor. Even Scum and Villainy like Boba Fett, Bossk, etc often sided with those who would further the cause of the Dark Side of the Force.

 

Anyway, this, *points to the wall of text above* is more of a discussion on theme that can be had elsewhere. The OP was asking more about the game and less about the theme.


Edited by GroggyGolem, 30 July 2014 - 12:35 PM.

Rebels: 3 X-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 1 A-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 YT-1300

Imperials: 5 TIE/LN, 1 TIE/ADV, 1 TIE/IN, 1 Firespray-31


#10 MarthWMaster

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 12:38 PM

It is interesting though, that despite being a mystical energy field guiding everyone's destiny, I still have to worry about those pesky resource match requirements. ;p

#11 GroggyGolem

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 12:43 PM

It is interesting though, that despite being a mystical energy field guiding everyone's destiny, I still have to worry about those pesky resource match requirements. ;p

The Force is powerful but not all-powerful. For instance, no limb regeneration.


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Rebels: 3 X-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 1 A-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 YT-1300

Imperials: 5 TIE/LN, 1 TIE/ADV, 1 TIE/IN, 1 Firespray-31


#12 jkayati

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:37 PM

To provide you a counterview, I think it's a good time to get out of Star Wars.  My local meta is dead.  No one is playing this.  Why?  The poor game development.  The meta was dominated forever my Sith and Smugglers & Spies.  There just wasn't any reason to play anything else, if you wanted to win.  So, after the first cycle, the game was stale.  With hopes of rejuvenation, the next cycle began that provide really powerful cards for.....Sith and Smugglers & Spies.  Some, so poorly playtested, they had to nerfed via a Restricted List not long after release.

 

That was really it for me.  With the upcoming release of  other card games, I don't need to waste my time or money on a poorly developed card game.

 

All that said, Star Wars is a great casual card game.  The theme is there, the game play is interesting.  It's just so poorly developed as to be unbalanced when playing anything other than casual games.

 

All this reminds me.  I really need to sell my cards and get ready for Conquest!



#13 GroggyGolem

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:25 PM

To provide you a counterview, I think it's a good time to get out of Star Wars.  My local meta is dead.  No one is playing this.  Why?  The poor game development.  The meta was dominated forever my Sith and Smugglers & Spies.  There just wasn't any reason to play anything else, if you wanted to win.  So, after the first cycle, the game was stale.  With hopes of rejuvenation, the next cycle began that provide really powerful cards for.....Sith and Smugglers & Spies.  Some, so poorly playtested, they had to nerfed via a Restricted List not long after release.

 

That was really it for me.  With the upcoming release of  other card games, I don't need to waste my time or money on a poorly developed card game.

 

All that said, Star Wars is a great casual card game.  The theme is there, the game play is interesting.  It's just so poorly developed as to be unbalanced when playing anything other than casual games.

 

All this reminds me.  I really need to sell my cards and get ready for Conquest!

I'd say that Rebel Alliance, Jedi, Imperial Navy and Scum & Villainy have gotten quite a boost in strength since the start of Echoes of the Force Cycle. Rebel Character decks are actually a thing now and are quite competitive. Mono Jedi has received a huge boost, whereas they pretty much weren't at all playable competitively before. Scum & Villainy was quite possibly one of the best answers to the Dash/Freeholders Meta that dominated the tournament scene for a while before the restriction, and is still better than it used to be.

 

I can't quite follow your logic here. You complain about Smugglers and Spies getting some of the best cards and dominating and then you complain about the restriction made to the one thing that made them "broken" in so many people's eyes. Nearly everyone views that restricted list as a step in the right direction, so I'm a bit confused as to why you complain about the issue being there and then complain about it being dealt with. Do you just not like any change to the game at all?


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Rebels: 3 X-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 1 A-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 YT-1300

Imperials: 5 TIE/LN, 1 TIE/ADV, 1 TIE/IN, 1 Firespray-31


#14 Goknights12

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 10:08 AM

 

To provide you a counterview, I think it's a good time to get out of Star Wars.  My local meta is dead.  No one is playing this.  Why?  The poor game development.  The meta was dominated forever my Sith and Smugglers & Spies.  There just wasn't any reason to play anything else, if you wanted to win.  So, after the first cycle, the game was stale.  With hopes of rejuvenation, the next cycle began that provide really powerful cards for.....Sith and Smugglers & Spies.  Some, so poorly playtested, they had to nerfed via a Restricted List not long after release.

 

That was really it for me.  With the upcoming release of  other card games, I don't need to waste my time or money on a poorly developed card game.

 

All that said, Star Wars is a great casual card game.  The theme is there, the game play is interesting.  It's just so poorly developed as to be unbalanced when playing anything other than casual games.

 

All this reminds me.  I really need to sell my cards and get ready for Conquest!

I'd say that Rebel Alliance, Jedi, Imperial Navy and Scum & Villainy have gotten quite a boost in strength since the start of Echoes of the Force Cycle. Rebel Character decks are actually a thing now and are quite competitive. Mono Jedi has received a huge boost, whereas they pretty much weren't at all playable competitively before. Scum & Villainy was quite possibly one of the best answers to the Dash/Freeholders Meta that dominated the tournament scene for a while before the restriction, and is still better than it used to be.

 

I can't quite follow your logic here. You complain about Smugglers and Spies getting some of the best cards and dominating and then you complain about the restriction made to the one thing that made them "broken" in so many people's eyes. Nearly everyone views that restricted list as a step in the right direction, so I'm a bit confused as to why you complain about the issue being there and then complain about it being dealt with. Do you just not like any change to the game at all?

 

I think he is complaining about the fact that they had to have one at all. I think most if not all of us agree that it is disappointing that so early in the games life something like that slipped into the game. 



#15 GroggyGolem

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:21 AM

To provide you a counterview, I think it's a good time to get out of Star Wars.  My local meta is dead.  No one is playing this.  Why?  The poor game development.  The meta was dominated forever my Sith and Smugglers & Spies.  There just wasn't any reason to play anything else, if you wanted to win.  So, after the first cycle, the game was stale.  With hopes of rejuvenation, the next cycle began that provide really powerful cards for.....Sith and Smugglers & Spies.  Some, so poorly playtested, they had to nerfed via a Restricted List not long after release.
 
That was really it for me.  With the upcoming release of  other card games, I don't need to waste my time or money on a poorly developed card game.
 
All that said, Star Wars is a great casual card game.  The theme is there, the game play is interesting.  It's just so poorly developed as to be unbalanced when playing anything other than casual games.
 
All this reminds me.  I really need to sell my cards and get ready for Conquest!

I'd say that Rebel Alliance, Jedi, Imperial Navy and Scum & Villainy have gotten quite a boost in strength since the start of Echoes of the Force Cycle. Rebel Character decks are actually a thing now and are quite competitive. Mono Jedi has received a huge boost, whereas they pretty much weren't at all playable competitively before. Scum & Villainy was quite possibly one of the best answers to the Dash/Freeholders Meta that dominated the tournament scene for a while before the restriction, and is still better than it used to be.
 
I can't quite follow your logic here. You complain about Smugglers and Spies getting some of the best cards and dominating and then you complain about the restriction made to the one thing that made them "broken" in so many people's eyes. Nearly everyone views that restricted list as a step in the right direction, so I'm a bit confused as to why you complain about the issue being there and then complain about it being dealt with. Do you just not like any change to the game at all?
I think he is complaining about the fact that they had to have one at all. I think most if not all of us agree that it is disappointing that so early in the games life something like that slipped into the game.

Mistakes may have been made. I'd rather focus on the fact that FFG listened to the community and tried to correct the situation. It shows they care and pay attention to their customers.

Rebels: 3 X-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 1 A-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 YT-1300

Imperials: 5 TIE/LN, 1 TIE/ADV, 1 TIE/IN, 1 Firespray-31


#16 MarthWMaster

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:05 PM

Mistakes may have been made. I'd rather focus on the fact that FFG listened to the community and tried to correct the situation. It shows they care and pay attention to their customers.

You're right; it does. Coming from personal experience, I see the changes to the tiebreaker rules as another expression of this fact.

 

For the longest time, the leader of my playgroup could not see why I hated the tiebreaker system, and to be honest he still doesn't see the logic behind the change. He was drawn to the game for two reasons: 1) he loves Star Wars, and 2) he has a strong competitive drive - something I lack. Also, he hates deckbuilding, whereas I love it. The problem with the original tiebreaker rules wasn't that they were difficult to understand, or that they favored one side over the other, but that they favored one type of deck over all others; namely, the most aggressive deck archetype available at any given time. This absolutely ruled out a lot of otherwise-interesting objective sets, at least for competitive play, which is all I have access to at the moment. 

 

When your only concern is winning, the road to victory isn't as important as the destination. And don't get me wrong: there's nothing bad about playing competitively. I actually quite envy people who can take the game seriously enough to excel in tournaments, and I do like winning despite viewing it as "just a game." Still, I started playing SWLCG because I enjoy deckbuilding. Specifically, I like finding new ways to use overlooked cards, and the objective sets have given me plenty of opportunities to do so. But there simply wasn't any reason to express this creativity in tournaments, or to play a more defensive deck for either side, when the LS tiebreaker rules cared about the position of the Death Star dial, and the DS tiebreaker rules cared about destroyed objectives, neither of which are part of their respective side's victory condition. For me, this led to a perceived valuelessness in creative deckbuilding, the game's primary draw for me, whether or not this was reflected at the top level of competitive play.

 

Now, I realize there were other, more mechanical reasons for FFG's change to the tiebreaker rules, and it wasn't solely to appease players like me who come to customizable card games for the creativity they inspire. But when I read the new rules I was ecstatic, and really felt as though the company was going the extra mile to please its playerbase.


Edited by MarthWMaster, 01 August 2014 - 01:08 PM.

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#17 jkayati

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 09:55 AM

I was referring to the Dash/Freeholders restriction as an example of poor development of the game.  I think they've really dropped the ball on providing any sort of balance between affiliations.  The restriction was the right call, certainly, but it's a combo of cards that should never have been released.

 

The shiny theme, which is done really well, obscures some pretty big warts in how the game plays.



#18 GroggyGolem

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 12:29 PM

I'm gonna take a guess that every time you said "Superstar Disputes," what you really meant was Star Wars.


Rebels: 3 X-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 1 A-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 YT-1300

Imperials: 5 TIE/LN, 1 TIE/ADV, 1 TIE/IN, 1 Firespray-31


#19 Toqtamish

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 12:32 PM

I think it's a spammer. Look at the link inserted. Reporting now.

#20 GroggyGolem

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 12:42 PM

I think it's a spammer. Look at the link inserted. Reporting now.

Yeah I was skeptic of the link and the fact that the poster wrote the first two sentences more than once.


Rebels: 3 X-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 1 A-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 YT-1300

Imperials: 5 TIE/LN, 1 TIE/ADV, 1 TIE/IN, 1 Firespray-31





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