Jump to content



Photo

Questions regarding the Warrant of Trade


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Gurkhal

Gurkhal

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,083 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:39 AM

Ok. I'm GMing a Black Crusade game but we've come to some troubles of interpretation of what it means to have a Rogue Trader Warrent of Trade. This is something which as become fairly big as one player plays is a woman with a fake Warrent of Trade, and we have been unable to reach a common interpretation for what this Warrent would grant or not. In fact the game's continued life kind of depands on us reaching some sort of common ground on the issue. And I might add that neither the player nor I, are great loremasters of the 40k universe or Rogue Traders, so we came up with these questions to put some light over the matter.

 

Thus we reach for this forum in the hopes of having some help with how its supposed to work.

 

PS: This is mainly regarding what formal things can be done or not. Under-the-table alternatives and covert ops are interesting but not in the main focus for out interest.

 

Authority

 

1. Given the Rogue Traders' place in the Imperial system, does the Warrent of Trade base itself on confering authority or freedom to the Rogue Trader?

 

2. What Imperial authorities can officially demand/force cooperation from Rogue Traders with Imperial law to support them?

 

3. If someone thinks the Warrent of Trade is false, what evidence is required to prove it and to whom must the evidence be provided for a formal case?

 

4. What legal consequences would befall a Imperial Navy captain who opened fire on a Rogue Trader vessel, while for example suspecting the Rogue Trader is doing extra work as a pirate?

 

5. How does Rogue Traders and Inquisitorial authority work with each other? What can the Inquisition formally do to a Rogue Trader, and what legal means to defend themselves against an Inquisitor does the Rogue Trader possess?

 

Resources

 

7. Can a Rogue Trader demand or confiscate resources from a Planetary Governor or the Administratum?

 

8. How likely is that that nobles or the Administratum would invest money in a Rogue Trader's enterprize?

 

9. What authority over non-Imperial personal, like chartist captains, common subjects of the Emperor etc. does a Rogue Trader possess?

 

Warrent of Trade

 

10. Who has authority to judge if a Rogue Trader is breaking against his Warrent?

 

11. If there are normally prohibited people, like heretics, on the ship are they protected by the Warrent?

 

12. Are mutants allowed to form part of the crew?

 

13. What right to self-defense does Rogue Traders have a right to?

 

14. What kind, and to which degree, can a Rogue Trader deal and cooperate with Xenos? Does the Rogue Trader's deals with Xenos include other Imperial parties as well?

 

Inquisition

 

15. What formal actions can the Inquisition take if they suspect the Rogue Trader is knowingly, or unknowingly, filling his ship with heretics?

 

16. How much evidence must an Inquisitor produce for formally giving hurt to a Rogue Trader?

 

Other Organizations

 

17. If other organizations, like the Adeptus Astartes or the Mechanicus, have personal on the Rogue Trader's ship what authority over them does the Rogue Trader have?

 

18. Can other organizations interfere with their personal on the Rogue Trader's ship? For example if the Ministorium is unhappy with a missionary on the Rogue Trader's ship, can they demand that the missionary is handed with legal consequences for the Rogue Trader if he does not comply?

 

19. Can other organizations demand to be allowed to board the Rogue Trader's ship to, for example, search it for forbidden goods?



#2 Tenebrae

Tenebrae

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,026 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 06:23 AM

That's a long list. Longer than I can deal with in this heat, sorry. So I'll try to yield something piecemeal.

 

1.-5. That ... depends.

Warrents of Trade, especially the older ones, are a varied lot. And the rights and duties of the Rogue Trader/RT Dynasty is usually defined within said Warrent. The rights granted by the Warrent can ofcourse be contested. as I will (hopefully!) mention below.

 

6. Rogue Traders are formally peers of the Imperium - about the same social level as a planetary guvenor. Anything an Inquisitor can do to a planetary guvernor, he can do to an RT. But for practical reasosn, affecting an RT beyond the borders of the Imperium is tricky, and the Inquisition usually tries to avoid that sort of mess. Especially because most RT Warrents grant immunity to certain rules that would condemn lesser citizens of the Imperium of Man, specifically dealing with the Xenos tend to be exempt.

 

7. No. Unless the Warrent specifies so. And that's the simple answer. In the Imperium of Man, many have exactly the power they can claim. So a powerful RT might well be able to extract resources from the guvernor of a small planet, while eg. the Guvernor of Malfi (a powerful hiveworld in Calixis Sector) would likely tell the same RT to go die in a fire - or offer resources in return for services rendered.

 

9. As far as I can tell, none - unless the RT is the employer of that particular Chartist captain. Some RTs have/claim the right to offer lesser charters to chartist captains.

 

10. Anyone who can make it stick (recognize a pattern yet?) A conclave of Inquisitors or a Sector Lord is usually plenty.

But again, it's often about making it stick. If an inquisitor has an RT assasinated and then comes forth, declaring the killing done in the name of the God-Emperor of Mankind, who will gainsay her authority?

If your Warrent gives you the right to trade with all imperial planets, but an Astartes captain aboard a strike cruiser tells you that this particular planet is interdicted and thus forbidden, do you want to argue? etc.

 

11. You can have sanctioned xenos, but open heretics are probably harder to get away with.

 

12. Almost every ship has mutants in the lower decks. Not necessarily as crew and indeed on many ships they are hunted. But they are almost certainly there.

 

13. I'll need more context for that one. Especially as most RTs are allowed warships and many have the right to own personal armies.

 

14. Dealing with Xenos is one of the traditional rights of RTs. Be it in gold or orbital bombardments. But these agreements tend to be binding for the RT only (indeed the Imperium at large might well consider all dealing with Xenos to be "non-binding agreements"!) Ofcourse, if an RT piss off the wrong xenos and cause them to invade imperial space, the navy will become involved ;)

 

15. There are records of RT dynasties being burned for dabbling with the Dark Powers. Ironically, about the only thing the Inquisition can't do, is revoke the Warrent.

 

16. Depends.

 

17-18. I'm not sure I understand the question, but it might just be me being stupid - I'm not so good with the heat.

 

19. Certainly! They can demand until they are blue in the face!

Actually gaining access might well be more tricky though. See perhaps #6


Edited by Tenebrae, 26 July 2014 - 06:24 AM.


#3 venkelos

venkelos

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,234 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:30 AM

Ok. I'm GMing a Black Crusade game but we've come to some troubles of interpretation of what it means to have a Rogue Trader Warrent of Trade. This is something which as become fairly big as one player plays is a woman with a fake Warrent of Trade, and we have been unable to reach a common interpretation for what this Warrent would grant or not. In fact the game's continued life kind of depands on us reaching some sort of common ground on the issue. And I might add that neither the player nor I, are great loremasters of the 40k universe or Rogue Traders, so we came up with these questions to put some light over the matter.

 

Thus we reach for this forum in the hopes of having some help with how its supposed to work.

 

PS: This is mainly regarding what formal things can be done or not. Under-the-table alternatives and covert ops are interesting but not in the main focus for out interest.

 

Authority

 

1. Given the Rogue Traders' place in the Imperial system, does the Warrent of Trade base itself on confering authority or freedom to the Rogue Trader?

 

2. What Imperial authorities can officially demand/force cooperation from Rogue Traders with Imperial law to support them?

 

3. If someone thinks the Warrent of Trade is false, what evidence is required to prove it and to whom must the evidence be provided for a formal case?

 

4. What legal consequences would befall a Imperial Navy captain who opened fire on a Rogue Trader vessel, while for example suspecting the Rogue Trader is doing extra work as a pirate?

 

5. How does Rogue Traders and Inquisitorial authority work with each other? What can the Inquisition formally do to a Rogue Trader, and what legal means to defend themselves against an Inquisitor does the Rogue Trader possess?

 

Resources

 

7. Can a Rogue Trader demand or confiscate resources from a Planetary Governor or the Administratum?

 

8. How likely is that that nobles or the Administratum would invest money in a Rogue Trader's enterprize?

 

9. What authority over non-Imperial personal, like chartist captains, common subjects of the Emperor etc. does a Rogue Trader possess?

 

Warrent of Trade

 

10. Who has authority to judge if a Rogue Trader is breaking against his Warrent?

 

11. If there are normally prohibited people, like heretics, on the ship are they protected by the Warrent?

 

12. Are mutants allowed to form part of the crew?

 

13. What right to self-defense does Rogue Traders have a right to?

 

14. What kind, and to which degree, can a Rogue Trader deal and cooperate with Xenos? Does the Rogue Trader's deals with Xenos include other Imperial parties as well?

 

Inquisition

 

15. What formal actions can the Inquisition take if they suspect the Rogue Trader is knowingly, or unknowingly, filling his ship with heretics?

 

16. How much evidence must an Inquisitor produce for formally giving hurt to a Rogue Trader?

 

Other Organizations

 

17. If other organizations, like the Adeptus Astartes or the Mechanicus, have personal on the Rogue Trader's ship what authority over them does the Rogue Trader have?

 

18. Can other organizations interfere with their personal on the Rogue Trader's ship? For example if the Ministorium is unhappy with a missionary on the Rogue Trader's ship, can they demand that the missionary is handed with legal consequences for the Rogue Trader if he does not comply?

 

19. Can other organizations demand to be allowed to board the Rogue Trader's ship to, for example, search it for forbidden goods?

Okay, my opinions:

  1. Yes. Rogue Traders have considerable powers, being allowed to leave the Imperium, deal with Xenos, claim worlds in their name, and the Emperor's, and much more.
  2. The person who supplied the Warrant, and those above that. Many older Warrants, that's the High Lords, themselves. If a Lord Sector, or someone else acquired it for them, he or she might have some pull. Of course, having the power to enforce this is a totally different thing.
  3. This gets iffy. Outside the Imperium, no one cares, and no one likely asks. INSIDE the Imperium, the RT should have the document, or, in my world, a device that functions much like an Inquisitor's rosette, containing information, and gene-locks, that are attached to the actual document on Terra. Often, I like to think that the Rogue Trader's best means of proving their identity is to show the sorts of resources they can move; few people in space have such wealth, and few other people with that wealth are allowed to have ships, which are also VERY expensive to maintain.
  4. IMO, likely none, or little. The Navy has leeway to deal with piracy, and many RT's ARE pirates. The answer for both sides is "do you want to risk the pissing match?" If the Navy fires on the Rogue Trader, he can always fire back. If the Rogue Trader does, the Navy can always fire back. It'll depend on who doesn't want to risk the loss of resource chain or support. Either faction can mightily depend on the other, and this is something that helps maintain the peace.
  5. Inquisitors and Rogue Traders are vaguely mutually exclusive. The RT has considerably less power while inside Imperial Space, where he is as expected to follow the laws and rules as everyone else, while out in their territory, the Inquisitor lacks much of the resources actually needed to make his vaunted authority matter. The Inquisition can charge a Rogue Trader, and he can pay heaven and earth to try and dodge it, or maybe have another Inquisitor help him.
  6. ***MY OPINIONS CONTINUE. GLAD YOU ARE STILL READING.***
  7. Yes, but they don't have to listen. However, the money of a Rogue Trader can often grease palms, and they DO possess the rights to buy some things most can't, such as military weapons and personnel, and NEVER return them, or even say what became of them.
  8. It depends on what you enterprise. If you are mining materials, the AdMech might like them, while if you spelunk into ruins with lost tech, they WILL like them. Making colonies can get people to invest, and cold-trade entrepreneurs can clandestinely deal with lots of noble currency.
  9. As much as he can charm, intimidate, or purchase.
  10. Almost no one. Again, it depends on who produced it. Older warrants from Earth made their bearers phenomenally powerful, while most made today are more restricted, and those who made it might be able to say things, if they have the support to challenge the man with a ship, an army, and/or whatever else you like to sport around the sector with.
  11. A Rogue Trader cannot harbor true heretics; they still must worship Him on the Golden Throne, and other such precepts. A Rogue Trader has the resources to hide them, and can avoid Imperial Space for as long as they don't need something, but heretics, and to a lesser aspect xenos, are only as safe as you can make them, and Inquisitors will take issue if you have either.
  12. For the most part, I'd say yes. They are your responsibility, of course.
  13. Minusing very specific Warrants, Rogue Traders can own any variety of ships, fleets of them, planets, troops of many stripes, vehicles, etc. In truth, if they can afford it, they can get it.
  14. Pretty much any. Legally, they can't bring xenos-proscribed relics into the Imperium proper, but that rarely stops them. They can't really middle man deals, as the other imperial party lacks the right of dealing with xenos, but they can be paid to act on behalf, if the party keeps their involvement quiet.
  15. As with many things, the Inquisitor isn't likely to directly act, but can certainly infiltrate Throne Agents into crews, and collect info, sabotage things, or whatever. With enough evidence, they can charge a Rogue Trader, and break him. If they really want to, they can also declare him Excommunicate Traitorus, meaning that the RT can never benefit legitimately from the AdMech, Navis Nobilite, Astropaths, Navy, or similar support.
  16. As much as his kin think is needed. Like so many things, it depends on who has more connections, and is greasing more palms.
  17. Little. The Space Marines BARELY answer to the Lords of Terra, and rarely appear on Rogue Trader ships; there are too few of them to mill around a Rogue Trader's ship, waiting for things to happen, though they might use the ship to get somewhere, if they are well on with that dynasty. The AdMech is vital to maintain the ships and equipment of the dynasty, so avoiding pissing matches is vital. Still, the AdMech likes to use Rogue Traders as a way to old, lost things, so they are likely to be accommodating, too.
  18. Yes. As above, it depends on who knows who, and who wants to fight. Rogue Traders are capable of rubbing elbows with very high-ranking clergy, and these people are not above performing favors, so if you know of a higher authority than the accuser, you can make the problem go away.
  19. Yes, but the RT can laugh very loud. If the Navy, for instance, or an Inquisitor, brought enough firepower to push the issue, they can, but the RT isn't obligated to listen, so long as he doesn't care about the potential consequences.

Like Inquisitors, so much of a Rogue Trader's real power is circumstantial. Some people don't care who he is, or what the sheet of paper says, so it's often a question of who has more money, connections, favors, or whatever have you. Luckily, unlike the Inquisitor, the Rogue Trader often talks with cash, and many people will do almost anything for whatever the RT will offer.


Edited by venkelos, 26 July 2014 - 11:31 AM.


#4 Errant Knight

Errant Knight

    Member

  • Members
  • 495 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:14 PM

Yes to all the above, PLUS

 

Some time ago, someone posted a Warrant here (or maybe on another forum, I don't remember) that was modified from a Dutch East Indies contract (there were several through the centuries).  I modified it and used it for a campaign.  I'll paste it here for your reading pleasure.

 

Ye Olde Warrante of Trade

 

The Terran High Lords of the Imperium of Mankind, to all who shall see these Documentes, or hear them read, Greetings,

 

Be it known that we, knowing the prosperity of the systems of the Segmentum Obscurus and the welfare of their inhabitants depends principally on navigation and trade, which in all former times by the said Systems were carried on happily, and with a great blessing to all worlds and sectors, and desiring that the aforesaid inhabitants should not only be preserved in their former navigation, traffic, and trade, but also that their trade may be increased as much as possible in special conformity to the treaties, alliances, leagues and covenants for traffic and navigation formerly made with other worlds, Adepta and people, which we give them to understand must be in all parts punctually kept and adhered to, and we find by experience, that without the common help, assistance, and interposition of a Man of Action, the people designed from hence for those parts cannot be profitably protected and maintained in their great risque from pirates, extortion and otherwise, which will happen in so very long a voyage, we have, therefore, and for several other important reasons and considerations as thereunto moving, with mature deliberation of counsel, and for highly necessary causes, found it good, that the navigation, trade, and commerce, in the parts of the Koronus Expanse, and the Halo Stars, and other places hereafter described, should not henceforth be carried on any otherwise than by the common united strength of the Rogue Traders and loyal Men of these Worlds; and for that end there shall be elected divers Rogue Traders, and in especial, the Line of __________________, which we out of special regard to the common well-being, and to keep and preserve the inhabitants of those places in good trade and orthodoxy, will maintain and strengthen with our Help, Favour and assistance as far as the present state and condition of this Body will admit: and moreover furnish them with a proper Warrant of Trade, and with the following Privileges and Exemptions, to wit:

 

I.  Grants, in perpetuity, the status of Rogue Trader.  This establishes them as Peers of the planetary Governors, Lord High Commanders of the Sectors, and Chapter Masters of the Adeptus Astartes.

 

II. Grants the right to colonize, trade, conquer, make alliances, build and people defenses and civic infrastructure as well as economic projects, and appoint magistrates on behalf of the Imperium for the purpose of administration, outside the currente boundaries of this Great Imperium of Mankynde.

 

III. The House will maintain records as to who the officers of the House and its Fortunes are.

 

IV. The House has the authority to obtain reparations within the Imperium without recourse to the Adeptus Arbites.

 

V. The House and its officers have the authority to requisition Imperial Guard from planetary Governors, with their assent, providing the House pay their upkeep for the duration of the time requisitioned for.

 

VI. Imperial troops commanded by the House shall owe loyalty to the House except as it contradicts loyalty to the Emperor.

 

VII. The Imperium will not requisition ships, ordnance, munitions, supplies, or personnel from the House without Recompense and Due Notice.

 

VIII. The House will not conduct business with agents of the Ruinous Powers, nor engage in any commerce that concerns their manufactures or their goods.

 

IX. The House will not import xeno-technology, nor bring xenos, into the Imperium.

 

X. This Article is smeared and appears to have been deliberately sequestered.

 

XI. Upon due admittance of any planetary population to the Imperium, the House shall become responsible for the tithe of that body.

 

XII. Those working for the House cannot abandon the House without written consent of the House, or due notification to the House of at least a decade.

 

XIII. The House is required to report all discoveries and observations made during voyages of exploration.

 

XIV. The House is required to give transport to any and all Inquisitors and Ecclesiarchs, and their Agents, to any destination they have declared for the future.

 

XV. The House can, with prior notification, obtain the aid of the Imperial Navy, given the House pay for the maintenance, salaries, and battle damage of those ships.  No more than ships of a suitable class and equal in number to those provided by the House shall be assigned.

 

Given under our Great Seal, and the Signature and Seal of our Recorder, at the Imperial Palace , X XXX XXX.MXX.

 

[seal of the High Lords here]

 

Given under his Signature, at his Sectorial Palace, X XXX XXX.MXX.

 

[Lord Sector's Signature Here]

 

Given under His Signature, the Founding Trader, X XXX XXX.MXX.

 

[Signature of the Founding Trader]


  • Vandegraffe, Amroth, Erathia and 1 other like this

#5 Askil

Askil

    Member

  • Members
  • 369 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 04:30 PM

Basically an RT is free to go and act as he pleases in any territory formally unclaimed by the imperium.

 

inside the Imperium they are just merchants with deep pockets and exclusive priviliges to trade in non imperial goods just as long as nobody more powerful turns up and asserts otherwise.

 

Of course having absolute power corrupts absolutely, and adjusting to being back in the imperial police state after tasting the freedom beyond it is more effort that some care to make.


  • Radwraith likes this

#6 Radwraith

Radwraith

    Member

  • Members
  • 906 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:34 PM

 

inside the Imperium they are just merchants with deep pockets and exclusive priviliges to trade in non imperial goods just as long as nobody more powerful turns up and asserts otherwise.

 

They are a little more than that! A Rogue trader is still a 'Peer of the Imperium' even inside it's boundaries. According to the background, The bearer of a Warrant has roughly the same political power as a SM Brother captain or even a Chapter master if their dynasty is strong enough! This means that no Rogue trader falls under 'Common law' but rather under the Noble laws that govern the various nobles of the Imperium. No Local Enforcer is going to be able to arrest a Rogue trader unless they allow it! (Though an Arbitrator or Inquisitor certainly could!)

 

Additionally, as Imperial Nobility, Rt's can expect the cooperation and protection of the Adeptus Arbites so long as they are acting within the fairly loose strictures of Imperial nobility.

 

Of course the same is not necessarily true for the RT's Command staff and Crew. Higher level Explorator's and Missionaries will enjoy the privilege of their station but lower lvl characters are just simply Imperial citizens (Unless they are themselves Nobles!). In fact, Navigators in the Fluff rarely venture outside their Enclaves inside Imperial space due to the fear of Mutants that the Average Imperial citizen has. (A Dead Navigator is just another dead mutant until their house starts investigating!)



#7 Gurkhal

Gurkhal

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,083 posts

Posted 30 July 2014 - 11:59 AM

 

 

inside the Imperium they are just merchants with deep pockets and exclusive priviliges to trade in non imperial goods just as long as nobody more powerful turns up and asserts otherwise.

 

They are a little more than that! A Rogue trader is still a 'Peer of the Imperium' even inside it's boundaries. According to the background, The bearer of a Warrant has roughly the same political power as a SM Brother captain or even a Chapter master if their dynasty is strong enough! This means that no Rogue trader falls under 'Common law' but rather under the Noble laws that govern the various nobles of the Imperium. No Local Enforcer is going to be able to arrest a Rogue trader unless they allow it! (Though an Arbitrator or Inquisitor certainly could!)

 

Additionally, as Imperial Nobility, Rt's can expect the cooperation and protection of the Adeptus Arbites so long as they are acting within the fairly loose strictures of Imperial nobility.

 

Of course the same is not necessarily true for the RT's Command staff and Crew. Higher level Explorator's and Missionaries will enjoy the privilege of their station but lower lvl characters are just simply Imperial citizens (Unless they are themselves Nobles!). In fact, Navigators in the Fluff rarely venture outside their Enclaves inside Imperial space due to the fear of Mutants that the Average Imperial citizen has. (A Dead Navigator is just another dead mutant until their house starts investigating!)

 

 

We are at the moment discussing things back and forth. Could you, or someone else for that matter, define what it means to be a "peer" of the Imperium? This is proving to be a critical point for our understanding.



#8 Errant

Errant

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,185 posts

Posted 30 July 2014 - 04:15 PM

By virtue of the Warrant a rogue trader acts with authority as he sees fit, answerable to no one except the representatives of Him on Earth. The caveat here is that Warrants typically label the bearer with restrictions on said peerage. The most common one being "The bearer holds the status of a peer of the Imperium while engaging in appropriate actions outside the Imperium of Man." That is, you are fully permitted to do whatever you see fit, so long as it benefits the Imperium and is outside its nominated borders. 

 

Also of note, this means that you cannot be compelled by members of the Imperium with a rank lower than the High Lords themselves to perform any action while you are outside the Imperim's borders. They can threaten you with reprisals, but you're quite free to tell an inquisitor to go space himself if he wants a lift to Hecaton's Rift while you're in Footfall.



#9 Magellan

Magellan

    Member

  • Members
  • 520 posts

Posted 30 July 2014 - 04:36 PM

5. How does Rogue Traders and Inquisitorial authority work with each other? What can the Inquisition formally do to a Rogue Trader, and what legal means to defend themselves against an Inquisitor does the Rogue Trader possess?

An inquisitor could formally shoot the rogue trader in the face. As for a rogue trader's legal means to defend himself, well... I guess he could take cover behind a lawyer?

 

I actually don't have much to add to what's already been said. With most of these things, I'd say it depends on the power and influence of the rogue trader himself. As a GM, I pretty much tell my players they can defend themselves in whatever ways they can get away with.


I am the latest model of a Fabricator-General
My body isn't nearly as much animal as mineral
My learnedness is legend; my accomplishments historical
For hereteks and aliens my hatred's categorical


#10 ranoncles

ranoncles

    Member

  • Members
  • 245 posts

Posted 31 July 2014 - 05:05 AM

 

 

 

inside the Imperium they are just merchants with deep pockets and exclusive priviliges to trade in non imperial goods just as long as nobody more powerful turns up and asserts otherwise.

 

They are a little more than that! A Rogue trader is still a 'Peer of the Imperium' even inside it's boundaries. According to the background, The bearer of a Warrant has roughly the same political power as a SM Brother captain or even a Chapter master if their dynasty is strong enough! This means that no Rogue trader falls under 'Common law' but rather under the Noble laws that govern the various nobles of the Imperium. No Local Enforcer is going to be able to arrest a Rogue trader unless they allow it! (Though an Arbitrator or Inquisitor certainly could!)

 

Additionally, as Imperial Nobility, Rt's can expect the cooperation and protection of the Adeptus Arbites so long as they are acting within the fairly loose strictures of Imperial nobility.

 

Of course the same is not necessarily true for the RT's Command staff and Crew. Higher level Explorator's and Missionaries will enjoy the privilege of their station but lower lvl characters are just simply Imperial citizens (Unless they are themselves Nobles!). In fact, Navigators in the Fluff rarely venture outside their Enclaves inside Imperial space due to the fear of Mutants that the Average Imperial citizen has. (A Dead Navigator is just another dead mutant until their house starts investigating!)

 

 

We are at the moment discussing things back and forth. Could you, or someone else for that matter, define what it means to be a "peer" of the Imperium? This is proving to be a critical point for our understanding.

 

 

AFAIK, GW has never detailed what it means to be a peer of the Imperium, only (roughly) who are peers. Thus one needs to look at historical facts and see how they would translate to this setting.

 

Peers are a special category of citizens (nobles, administrators, military commanders etc.) and they enjoy special privileges due to this status. Most commonly, these were the right to certain jobs, the right to personal access to the sovereign and the right to be tried by their peers in a special court (which effectively meant some basic laws did not apply to them and they could not be arrested by common 'police', only high police or by special warrant.

 

In the feudal Imperium, this means that certain jobs/positions are only open to certain noble families and that peers have the right to a trial by their peers or a full conclave of inquisitors (one the one hand supported by fluff suggesting trials lasting decades or more yet undermined by inquisitors gunning down whoever they like) and that most common laws are not applicable to them, only the Lex Imperialis or maybe only parts of that). 

 

At least, that would be my interpretation of peers of the Imperium.



#11 Errant Knight

Errant Knight

    Member

  • Members
  • 495 posts

Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:35 PM

Peers of the Imperium:  Planetary governors, Space Marine Chapter Masters, Lord General, Lord High Admiral, Lords of the Adeptus Terra, Inquisitor Lords...

 

Who has authority over them?  No one, really.  Of course, there are people that could execute them and possibly get away with it.

 

In the end, your problem is one of a conterfeit Warrant of Trade.  Once it becomes common knowledge among the powers that be that said Warrant is a fake, your problem will dissipate.  Until then, you have a problem...



#12 ranoncles

ranoncles

    Member

  • Members
  • 245 posts

Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:13 AM

On a more practical note, outside of the Imperium, it doesn't matter if a person is a RT or just claims to be one. Nobody cares and he can't derive any authority from it as there are no imperial assets there to be requisitioned (outside of the odd patrol ship and they have their own orders and would not accept RT orders anyway.)

 

It only matters within Imperial space. Any low level bureacrat will likely be impressed enough to accept such a character for what he seems to be but outrageous demands will require approval from higher authority. And they will certainly require proof. In another thread this was also discussed and it seems likely that RT's are required to register at each sector HQ (just like all ship captains are required to) where they operate and that their credentials will be checked at that time (either by sending for confirmation to Terra or by gene testing or other high-tech/gothic authentication procedure available).

 

So if a RT starts demanding resources from a planetary governor, that would likely upset previous arrangements and/or trade flow. Any governor would thus first check if said character is indeed a RT and what the Lord sub-sector or Lord Sector has to say about it.....For example, if a RT has the right to conscript men for his ship/fleet and the governor has also been ordered to raise regiments for immediate service, there are competing demands. He might well demand that higher authority determine priority....After all, in the Imperium there are no absolutes....all is decided by influence, seniority and obscure precedence.


Edited by ranoncles, 01 August 2014 - 04:16 AM.

  • Tenebrae likes this

#13 Gurkhal

Gurkhal

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,083 posts

Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:32 PM

Thanks everyone for the input. With the help of this we have managed to reach some form of common ground and can now move forward. :)






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS