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#41 Magellan

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:59 AM

No one will ever convince me that Tech-Use functions as a lore skill to begin with.

 

But I heavily house rule skills for the sake of balance (not realism), so what do I know?


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#42 Fgdsfg

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 12:46 PM

No one will ever convince me that Tech-Use functions as a lore skill to begin with.

 

But I heavily house rule skills for the sake of balance (not realism), so what do I know?

In what game and context does Tech-Use function as a Lore Skill? I'd expect any such mechanic to be covered by Common Lore (Tech)?


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#43 Terraneaux

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:36 PM

Functionally, having too many skills creates an 'air-breathing mermaid problem' in the same way that the talents you talked about did. If you're complaining about Talents taking stuff away from what skills or roleplaying should do, I'd say the same about a skill system that's too populated - it makes skills too specific, and makes it so that the system isn't built to support handwaving of skill capabilities.


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#44 Magellan

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:46 PM

No one will ever convince me that Tech-Use functions as a lore skill to begin with.

 

But I heavily house rule skills for the sake of balance (not realism), so what do I know?

In what game and context does Tech-Use function as a Lore Skill? I'd expect any such mechanic to be covered by Common Lore (Tech)?

Precisely, which is what I would call for when identifying the structural integrity of a building. Well, with the odd exception.

 

Though on closer thought, you probably meant for sapping purposes, which would be Demolitions -> Tech-Use. Gotcha. I've got house rules for that as well, but house rules aren't what this is about, after all.

 

I think the problem, Terra, is that the designers separated the skills based on whatever they felt like at the moment, with no concern for how useful each skill would be, despite costing the same. I don't think anyone is suggesting that there needs to be a skill for every situation (though FFG forumites' trains of thought often completely elude me, so I could be wrong), just that Tech-Use and Medicae combined covering virtually every science known to man is more than a little iffy.

 

And speaking of iffy...

 

Ogryns have wounds for days, is their main advantage. That, and they have some actually very strong comrade abilities - they can frenzy as a free action after a kill in at least one of their specialties(..)

How is Frenzy useful to anyone ever? Not only does it keep you from retreating for the duration of the combat and risk you killing your own friends, but it prevents a close combat fighter from actually using any meaningful attacks or actions in favour of the All-Out Attack, the most useless of useless actions. No dodging, no parrying (jury's out on whether battle rage overrides that), no Swift Attacks and not even any Feints.


I am the latest model of a Fabricator-General
My body isn't nearly as much animal as mineral
My learnedness is legend; my accomplishments historical
For hereteks and aliens my hatred's categorical


#45 Terraneaux

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 06:27 PM

What the heck are you smoking? You can totally swift or especially (!) Lightning Attack while frenzied. Read the talent again. Frenzy makes you immune to Fear, pinning, stunning, and all of the effects of fatigue. Your relevant melee combat stats get boosted. You can't retreat, flee, or parry, but there's a useful talent that fixes that last bit (I have no idea what you mean when you say 'the jury's still out' on whether Battle Rage allows you to parry while frenzied; that's explicitly what it does). You can also always dodge while Frenzied, Battle Rage or no.



#46 Magellan

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 11:05 PM

Yep, you're right and I'm wrong. I was looking in the wrong book.


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My learnedness is legend; my accomplishments historical
For hereteks and aliens my hatred's categorical


#47 XScorpionX5

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 12:08 PM

So if Ogryns cane broken what about rattlings?



#48 Lateinshowing

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 05:41 PM

So if Ogryns cane broken what about rattlings?

Playing as a Ratling...... social and combat monster really. They're a little less broken since they're EXTREMELY squishy and practically harmless in melee unless they go Trailblazer.... and even then. But given an accurate weapon, the ability to have their comrade(s) (not all at once until you get a lot of comrades, and even so, not all of the abilities listed): aim for them, deny the enemy a dodge attempt, add DoS to pen for called shots. There are more, but those are generally more social and I just listed the combat stuff.

 

Soooo.... it's less the combat and more that accurate weapons are amazing and standard as part of their kit, their companions make them quite effective snipers (Sharpshooter is about the same, better in some cases too), and their specialties, like everyone's, can do some hilarious things when stacked with other things.


Edited by Lateinshowing, 16 August 2014 - 05:42 PM.


#49 TorogTarkdacil812

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 02:30 PM

Only piece of metagame I practice during character creation is: get willpower aptitude No, realy. Get it. If its fluffy and you have free slot during Regiment creation, get Iron Discipline Doctrine, if not, watch the reduntancies of regimental/specialization aptitudes and pick the Willpower. It may not be that gamebreaking at first look, but when you will be too "killy", GM will scare you shitless, will dominate you and will expose you to the raw touch of the Warp.

 

Altough playing company of Agriworld Conscripts, Apocalypse Now style, could be a fun oneshot, for any longer 40kRPG campaign, OW inclouded, boost your willpower and mental defences (Jaded, Unshakable Fare, or if you want to break the system, Fearless). Not everybody likes playing a drooling moron, or for eyes of having their own tentacles.


Edited by TorogTarkdacil812, 25 August 2014 - 02:11 AM.

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There is nothing as good as seeing rebel scum running out of a cave full of gas, right into the blasters of your battalion-–well, except sunrises, but for those you have to get up early.


#50 XScorpionX5

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 12:16 AM

Hmmmm I see. I guess the big thing to ask now is what regiment is considered garbage and is Kreig one of them?



#51 Drath

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:00 AM

I wouldn't consider any regiment 'garbage' par say. I would say it depends on what sort of campaign you want, how much roleplaying you want and how hard you need it to be. For example, whilst on duty and in combat at least, most of the campaign will be 'Yes sir, no sir, tell me to stick my gun up my arse and fire it and I'll obey without question sir!' Others allow more freedom. Krieg is a bit of work to organise unique characters in, as uniqueness is... Not encouraged, but wouldn't be impossible. I like the idea of a squad of guys who really, really don't want to die being stuck in a krieg environment, trying to claw their way out of each impossible fight they're dumped into.


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#52 TorogTarkdacil812

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:43 AM

Beauty of regiment creation systtem (if you dont let players abuse **** out of Combined regiments from Hammer of the Emperor) is that all players start on more or less same level. If it was individual, there is no doubt a true powergamer would just take Iron Dicipline, Die-Hards and Sharpshooters for bonus aptitudes and be done with it.

 

Wirting that, doctrines granting Aptitudes are generally considered "stronger", as they work with Exp economy, So from this point of view, Kriegs, having Iron Discipline, are definitely a bad regiment rules-wise.

 

I would consider Agriworld regiments to be rather unplayable in long run becouse of their penalty to Willpower and getting twice as many insanity points as normal drawback. And that is why I am currently writing one-shot OW adventure about Agriworld regiment, with Incompetent Command or Conscripts drawbacks, 15 Hours meet Apocalypse Now style. Regiment will garbage, but it is going to be hilarious.


There is nothing as good as seeing rebel scum running out of a cave full of gas, right into the blasters of your battalion-–well, except sunrises, but for those you have to get up early.


#53 Drath

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:50 AM

Beauty of regiment creation systtem (if you dont let players abuse **** out of Combined regiments from Hammer of the Emperor) is that all players start on more or less same level. If it was individual, there is no doubt a true powergamer would just take Iron Dicipline, Die-Hards and Sharpshooters for bonus aptitudes and be done with it.

 

Wirting that, doctrines granting Aptitudes are generally considered "stronger", as they work with Exp economy, So from this point of view, Kriegs, having Iron Discipline, are definitely a bad regiment rules-wise.

 

I would consider Agriworld regiments to be rather unplayable in long run becouse of their penalty to Willpower and getting twice as many insanity points as normal drawback. And that is why I am currently writing one-shot OW adventure about Agriworld regiment, with Incompetent Command or Conscripts drawbacks, 15 Hours meet Apocalypse Now style. Regiment will garbage, but it is going to be hilarious.

Tell us of their 'mighty' adventures against those scum bag foes of the Emperor! Huzzah! To war! etc. Also, I liked the mixed regiments. Infantry and armoured, playing as the infantry. 'We need one of your tanks, now. We requisition it.'. Tank Commander: 'Yes. Of course. However, since you don't fall under my actual responsibility, and aren't my problem, you're going to need to do a few favours....' Three hours later getting crucified at a chaos base. 'Wow... Some favour...'


'Cynic' Brooker of the Saurian Survivors.

Corvo, Chief Of Arms for the royal Emperors ship 'Glorious Might'.

And, GM of all the above.


#54 TorogTarkdacil812

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:15 AM

Lets say "I succeeded Awareness test! What do I see?" "Nothing new. But you do smell a rancid milk..."  :ph34r:


There is nothing as good as seeing rebel scum running out of a cave full of gas, right into the blasters of your battalion-–well, except sunrises, but for those you have to get up early.





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