Jump to content



Photo

Talking tactics


  • Please log in to reply
55 replies to this topic

#41 catachanninja

catachanninja

    Member

  • Members
  • 217 posts

Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:21 AM

When list building I try to ask myself three questions. 1 How am I going to deal with swarms, 2 How am I going to deal with big ships, 3 how am I going to deal with highly maneuverable ships. It's a little less fun cuz I like thematic at times too, but I don't like to be hosed either.
Make your swords become like things unto chainsaws

#42 Cyberkaiju

Cyberkaiju

    Member

  • Members
  • 38 posts

Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:21 PM

Cyberkaiju - I am going to borrow those two for an Episode of NOVA Squadron Radio, we are doing a series on tournament tactics right now.

I look foward to the show!

I've been thinking Hammer and Anvil style deployments lately, and it brings up an interesting set of questions that I don't really have answers to.
1.) What if both players do it (either strong-side lined up against strong-side, or strong-side lined up against weak-side).
2.) What kinds of ships give you different options in these kinds of scenarios?
3.) How does low relative PS (your deployment is obvious to your opponent) compared to high relative PS (your deployment is unknown to your opponent) affect how the opponent can counter this strategy?
4.) How do you retain the ability to focus fire while denying it to your opponent?

As far as what if two hammer and anvil lists fight, it's all about figuring out who is the beatdown, a theory I learned form magic the gathering. http://www.starcityg...site_continue=1
Thanks a lot for that link.  Good game theory overall.  I'm trying to put it in X-wing perspective, though.  I'm just going to type some stuff out here, maybe it will make sense, maybe not.  Would you say the Beatdown player is the player with the better jousting squad and the control player is the other squad?  So, for example, two Hammer and Anvil squads line up against each other, strong side vs strong side, you look at the two squads.  The squad with the better jousting ability is pretty happy, knowing that his or her individual parts are stronger at this type of thing and is content to let them and can probably win a Hammer vs. Hammer and Anvil vs. Anvil game.
 
The control player should have a deployment advantage, because all other things being equal, points not spent on jousting value are points spent on maneuverability and PS.  So the control player has to figure out how to put some part of the beatdown squad out of the fight for a couple turns, using PS and maneuverability.  This probably uses asteroid placement to try and set up a barrier that a split squad would have trouble with.  This would be guesswork during deployment.  If you think the other squad is beatdown to your control, you'd try and set up asteroids in a way that you could easily combine forces, but the opponent, with lesser maneuverability/PS couldn't.  
 
I guess there's also other axes that you could look at, like jousting vs. dogfighting ability.  If you have a bunch of high PS TIE fighters vs Rookie Pilots, you may well get busted up on a joust, but once formations break down, you have a big advantage in close with higher PS and a Barrel Roll.  So you try and set up asteroids to break up the enemy formation and give your TIEs cover on the approach.  
 
Am I making any sense?


Sounds like you more or less got it!
Empire- Tie Fighter:8 Tie Advance:2 Tie Bomber:4 Tie Interceptor:6
Tie Defender:2 Tie Phantom:2 Firespray:1 Lambda:3
Rebels- Xwing:5 Ywing:2 Awing:2 Bwing:2 Ewing:3 Z-95:12 HWK:1 YT-1300:1
Epic Rebels- GR-75:1 CR90:1

#43 Gundog8324

Gundog8324

    Member

  • Members
  • 860 posts

Posted 25 July 2014 - 02:20 PM

Don't play the game play the player.

 

What I mean by this in an X-wing sense if your opponent has mentioned having troubles playing against say Soontir Fel then do your best to keep Soontir back and/or deploy Soontir off in a corner because your opponent will probably try to focus him first and let the rest of your ships get behind him

 

Also along those lines is many people expect you to try to shed stress ASAP, don't unless your ship is dependent on actions (like Vader/PTL interceptor) Sometimes having stress  isn't that bad and you can forgo an action for a turn to line up a better shot and/or not get get shot at.


  • The_Brown_Bomber likes this

#44 Droofus

Droofus

    Member

  • Members
  • 72 posts

Posted 25 July 2014 - 02:37 PM

Run mono-ship type lists.    You will learn the maneuver dial more easily and your skill with that ship will increase.  Do this multiple times with the same ship then pick another ship and run a mono-ship list for that.   Try to win, but don't worry if your mono-ship type build is not optimized to do so.   The trick is learning how they fly in isolation.

 

This will help you with your combined squadron that you will be likely to be taking to tournaments.  Perhaps not as much in the early or mid game, but it will help you become a MUCH better end-game pilot with these ships.  It will also help you understand the limitations of your ships and find other ships that will cover for those weaknesses.

 

This is a funny game and there's a lot you can learn by looking at the card and available upgrades and by seeing other people's success/failures on the internet.  But there is no substitute for actually flying these ships against an opponent who is trying to eliminate them.


  • The_Brown_Bomber and Torresse like this

Ships.   Rebel:  

Spoiler
Imperial:  
Spoiler

#45 The_Brown_Bomber

The_Brown_Bomber

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,805 posts

Posted 25 July 2014 - 03:16 PM

Don't play the game play the player.

 

What I mean by this in an X-wing sense if your opponent has mentioned having troubles playing against say Soontir Fel then do your best to keep Soontir back and/or deploy Soontir off in a corner because your opponent will probably try to focus him first and let the rest of your ships get behind him

 

Also along those lines is many people expect you to try to shed stress ASAP, don't unless your ship is dependent on actions (like Vader/PTL interceptor) Sometimes having stress  isn't that bad and you can forgo an action for a turn to line up a better shot and/or not get get shot at.

 

this is also an effective chess tactic. once u discover what ur opponent does do so well. or what weakness there squad has. attack that weakness or play that style against them. they will be more likely to make mistakes if theyr  pressured to play a style they dont feel comfortable with.


"There will be a substantial reward for anyone who finds the Millenium Falcon. You are free to use whatever means necessary, but I want them alive. No disintegration!".

Lord Vader


#46 Ghaerdon

Ghaerdon

    Member

  • Members
  • 201 posts

Posted 25 July 2014 - 03:42 PM

Have fun.

Across the table your "enemy" won't know what hit him/her if you really just enjoy playing. Once you get hyper strategy goes to blank. Relax and fly and roll. So many on this thread have some great ideas, but the most important is to relax.

So again the best strategy is to have fun.
Rebels: 4 X Wings; 3 B Wings; 2 A Wings; 2 Y Wings; 2 E Wing; 5 z95; 1 YT-1300; 2 HWK-290; GR-75; Tantive
Empire: 7 Tie Fighters; 3 Tie Interceptors; 2 Tie Bombers; 1 Tie Advanced; 2 Firespray-31; 2 Lambda Shuttles; 2 Tie Defender; 2 Tie Phantom
Scum: (will be getting ... 2 Most Wanted; 2 StarViper; 2 IG-2000; 4 M3-A)

#47 Gundog8324

Gundog8324

    Member

  • Members
  • 860 posts

Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:07 PM

 

Don't play the game play the player.

 

What I mean by this in an X-wing sense if your opponent has mentioned having troubles playing against say Soontir Fel then do your best to keep Soontir back and/or deploy Soontir off in a corner because your opponent will probably try to focus him first and let the rest of your ships get behind him

 

Also along those lines is many people expect you to try to shed stress ASAP, don't unless your ship is dependent on actions (like Vader/PTL interceptor) Sometimes having stress  isn't that bad and you can forgo an action for a turn to line up a better shot and/or not get get shot at.

 

this is also an effective chess tactic. once u discover what ur opponent does do so well. or what weakness there squad has. attack that weakness or play that style against them. they will be more likely to make mistakes if theyr  pressured to play a style they dont feel comfortable with.

 

Originally it came to mind with Poker/Euchre(basically any card game) but you're right it works a lot.  If someone wants to dance around either spread your ships out and have a wide arc coverage, or keep them tight but angle them outwards or a kill zone

 

I beat a Echo+Vader+Bomber build last night on Vassal with a XXXZ, I got lucky and had Wedge miss bumping Echo by probably a pixel after we zoomed in as far as the game would let us and of course Wedge R1 on an uncloaked Phantom is just awesome anytime it is pulled off but I digress.  He built his squad on Vader using Swarm Tactics to bring Echo up to a 9 so I knew that I needed to separate them some how and that Echo's maneuverability would be restricted to that of an Tie Advanced is he kept them as close as he wanted too



#48 mrfroggies

mrfroggies

    Member

  • Members
  • 461 posts

Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:47 PM

For tournaments, here's some things that I think about.

 

1) Have a plan.  If you look at Paul Heaver's posts, about Worlds, you know that he had a plan for his Astroid setup and starting positions.  When your playing for 8+ hours, if you mind can take a break for the first few turns in a match it will let you ease into a game, and save your brain power for the later turns.

 

2) Know when to ditch your plan.  Sometime you run into something you just didn't expect or they place a asteroid in a spot that blocks what you want to do.  Don't get stuck with your plan, but roll with the changes.  Find a way to use this as a spark to your creative side.

 

3) Know your ships.  My buddy Jonathan made it to the top 4 at worlds, and the night before I told him he should fly x-wings because that's his strength.  He doesn't have to think to hard about the dial or what that ship can do, he knows it.

 

4) Bring water and snacks.  Keep hydrated.  Take the time to sit when you can.  Standing and playing for long periods will take it's toll so these little things add up.

 

5) Learn how to Examine a squad.  You have a short time to look at someones squad, so you should take that time.  You will want to be able to see what's your biggest threat.  You will fly differently against Falcon squad then say Tie Swarm.

 

For Non Tournaments:

 

1) Fly everything.  I'm a die hard rebel, but I fly imperials because I want to know how their ships move, and what their strengths are.  

 

2) Fly Crazy.  Sometimes Crazy builds that nobody in their right mind would fly, might just surprise you.  You may discover a new combo, or some bit of synergy that's been overlooked.  

 

3) Enjoy your losses.  Losing is an opportunity to learn.  It's easy to blame dice, but don't.  


Edited by mrfroggies, 25 July 2014 - 04:48 PM.

  • UndefeatedAce and ObiBen like this

#49 Krynn007

Krynn007

    Shinigami

  • Members
  • 1,248 posts

Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:56 PM

For tournaments, here's some things that I think about.
 
1) Have a plan.  If you look at Paul Heaver's posts, about Worlds, you know that he had a plan for his Astroid setup and starting positions.  When your playing for 8+ hours, if you mind can take a break for the first few turns in a match it will let you ease into a game, and save your brain power for the later turns.
 
2) Know when to ditch your plan.  Sometime you run into something you just didn't expect or they place a asteroid in a spot that blocks what you want to do.  Don't get stuck with your plan, but roll with the changes.  Find a way to use this as a spark to your creative side.
 
3) Know your ships.  My buddy Jonathan made it to the top 4 at worlds, and the night before I told him he should fly x-wings because that's his strength.  He doesn't have to think to hard about the dial or what that ship can do, he knows it.
 
4) Bring water and snacks.  Keep hydrated.  Take the time to sit when you can.  Standing and playing for long periods will take it's toll so these little things add up.
 
5) Learn how to Examine a squad.  You have a short time to look at someones squad, so you should take that time.  You will want to be able to see what's your biggest threat.  You will fly differently against Falcon squad then say Tie Swarm.
 
For Non Tournaments:
 
1) Fly everything.  I'm a die hard rebel, but I fly imperials because I want to know how their ships move, and what their strengths are.  
 
2) Fly Crazy.  Sometimes Crazy builds that nobody in their right mind would fly, might just surprise you.  You may discover a new combo, or some bit of synergy that's been overlooked.  
 
3) Enjoy your losses.  Losing is an opportunity to learn.  It's easy to blame dice, but don't.

I throw my dice in the woods.
May that be a lesson for the rest of them
  • mrfroggies and Dieter122 like this
Rebels4 xwing, 2 awings, 2 bwings,1 ywing, 1 Falcon, 1hwk, 1 ewing, 2 z95,1 reb aces, 1 transport, 1 Tantive,
Imperials
6 tie/ft, 2 squints, 1 aces, 4 bombers, 1 tie adv, 1 shuttle, 2 Firespray, 2 phantom, 1 tie defender

#50 UndefeatedAce

UndefeatedAce

    Member

  • Members
  • 34 posts

Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:47 PM

Don't always rush headfirst into combat.

With rebels, do a few 1 forwards, as empire instead of always placing your ships to shoot straight across the board towards the enemy, fly horizontal alongside your section, then hard turn towards the enemy when you feel its right.

A tactic I've used a few times with satisfying success, is to line up facing the opponent then immediately pull a short kturn or sharp one. Its beautiful when it works.

I've had it where my opponent went full speed forward with Han & his two Xwings while I K-turned my Soontir very first turn. It gaveme a perfect set up to pincer & crush his squad.
Who needs shields when you've got skill.

#51 Kaxel Vofer

Kaxel Vofer

    Member

  • Members
  • 710 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 06:09 PM

   I have a very agressive game, so I choose agressive ships, that let me throw as many dice as posible, but my top tactic, is get a lot of fun, and make some friend, greetings



"That the reward for you, don´t be so high".


Kaxel Vofer.


#52 Blail Blerg

Blail Blerg

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,357 posts

Posted 30 July 2014 - 04:39 PM

Just wanted to bring this thread back to increase the amount of thought we put into real strategizing and getting better at this game.  

 

--

One of the biggest parts of getting better at strategy is actually a more fundamental level.  In a 1v1 game like Xwing or Starcraft, the only person you can blame is yourself (or sheer luck, which I will get to later).  Do you have a mindset that allows you to get better?  or just mad/confused when you lose? 

 

Do you have any idea of how good you are?  

 

One certain aspect of learning new concepts is being introduced to them.  Play with groups, learn from people ou don't normally play with, this will allow you to see new subtler concepts, such as movement tricks.  (ever deployed facing sideways as a plan?  not just as a whim.)

 

Looking at your own play, there are a bunch of things that one can improve on on their own:

 

Do you run into asteroids and other ships unintentionally?

 

Do you have better theoretical statistics? 

1. do you have a focus or TL or other dice mod when your opponent does not for MOST of your engagements?

2. are you rolling more red dice than green dice?

3.  Do you have the same number or more shots on your opponent?  

4.  Are you modifying your position with movement actions when your opponent doesnt have to and is taking a focus?  

 

This second point deals with "luck". Luck happens in this game.  Sometimes quite a bit.  However, there are concrete measurements of how much you allow luck to have a say in the game.  These are four things that improve your statistical advantage when playing this game. 

I play both Magic and used to play Tactics Arena Online.  One of the most important differences between a naive player and the understanding player is that they understand the role of luck.

 - A good player creates situations where the luck is completely mitigated (ex in Tactics, if you attack from behind or with magic its 100% chance of a hit.  So tactics players will tend to take the final shot with a weak magic attack).  

 - A good player will also do their best to put the odds in their favor.  For instance, being good enough at movement that they can save their actions to take focuses or TLs where their opponents need to alter their position with movement actions (BR, boost).  They take engagements where they have a focus and their opponent is stressed off a K-turn.  


ROLL RED, STAY THIRSTY FRIENDS. 


#53 force kin

force kin

    Member

  • Members
  • 103 posts

Posted 30 July 2014 - 07:04 PM

Flexibility is most key for me. I try to have a few different plans going in to every match. That way I can react to whatever gets thrown my way. I try not to be too rigid, but don't just entirely wing it either.

 

 

I used to wing it, but now I'm an X-winger.



#54 Nataris

Nataris

    Member

  • Members
  • 407 posts

Posted 30 July 2014 - 10:22 PM

Find the ship that would be the toughest to face in late game and take it out first.

Never leave a phantom, fel, Luke or chewy for late game. You won't win.

#55 That One Guy

That One Guy

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,561 posts

Posted 30 July 2014 - 11:53 PM

(Any military aviators out there know this is real advice)

 

Don't dog one ship for too long. Two rounds, tops. I know it defies the conventional wisdom in this game of "focus them down", but this has worked for me. If you have someone in your sights that you really hate, but dice luck has seen them survive long past when they should have died, bugger it. Break hard by turning the opposite way or blasting straight out of the fight, or look for another target that you can engage by taking an unpredicted move or action. The straight 4-5, or the 3-bank are classic hoodwinks in this category. The reason I say this is that by dogging one ship you become too predictable. By all means, seeing red on that one target can blind you to truly tactical opportunistic shots. Don't pass them up just because you're convinced Wedge really needs to die.


  • Torresse likes this

#56 Torresse

Torresse

    Member

  • Members
  • 336 posts

Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:28 AM

(Any military aviators out there know this is real advice)

 

Don't dog one ship for too long. Two rounds, tops. I know it defies the conventional wisdom in this game of "focus them down", but this has worked for me. If you have someone in your sights that you really hate, but dice luck has seen them survive long past when they should have died, bugger it. Break hard by turning the opposite way or blasting straight out of the fight, or look for another target that you can engage by taking an unpredicted move or action. The straight 4-5, or the 3-bank are classic hoodwinks in this category. The reason I say this is that by dogging one ship you become too predictable. By all means, seeing red on that one target can blind you to truly tactical opportunistic shots. Don't pass them up just because you're convinced Wedge really needs to die.

This has allot of truth behind it, I used this last night to great effect.
I was behind in points as he had 3 named interceptors, and I only had 2 acdemies and a badly hurt vader.

My darth vader with EU had 1 hp, and I had his loorir down to 1 hp, I could of easily pursued loorir the following turn with vader, but he would know exactly where I would be. With a change in direction I was able to face his incoming ships and get vader out of all arcs except loorir (who only got there by trying to pull a risky move off though failed to capitalize on it)

He "dogged" vader and became predictable. He thought I was going to dog loorir, but by disengaging the dogging, I was able to turn the tide back into my favor and win the game


This is one of the main reasons Xwing is awesome! http://community.fan...ake-long/page-4





© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS