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Collect call from the warp, will you accept the charges?


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#21 Radwraith

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 03:07 AM

I know it's a little late now but in my RT games I often have the players elect the RT/Captain. I do this because A.) I want the RT to be someone the players WANT to follow and B.) Because the RT's power over the crew underway is absolute! (Something I take great care to explain to ALL the players!). In your case your players might want to issue a 'recall'! In character this could take the form of a Mutiny. Out of game maybe more of an 'Intervention' where the other players explain that either things change or said RT will be ousted! 



#22 Misha

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 03:11 AM

It sucks that the Void Master had to burn a fate point, but sometimes stuff like that happens. I wasn't happy when I had to burn a fate point after the ship's void master, an Untouchable, decided to stand 2 metres from a daemon I was fighting... with my Psy Blade.. as a Sanctioned Psyker. For three rounds I was trying to grapple the daemon, screaming at her to get away, but nope. Fgdsfg said this.

 

What do you call that? Stupidity, dislike, plain dumb?

 

When your leader is a prat, teach him the hard way. My players once stole a ship and kept it in their hangar to rust until they entered the warp abbondened their leader and with the stolen ship they left. The last thing they heard before entering realspace were the tormented screams of their Rogue Trader. 2d10 corruption points I think.



#23 venkelos

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:47 AM

Yep, depending on his playstyle, and if it is the character, rather than the player, being a dimwit, they might not even need to die at the end of said mutiny, if it will put him in his place, and he won't auto-retaliate later; some people wouldn't, but I guess I wouldn't hold my breath. in regards to the "leader" class, it can also be good to remind the RT that, not only should he have picked these people, the other players, and so at least kind of liked them, but they have a certain amount of say in the affairs of the ship, where the RT is deficient in their fields; that's why he has them around, living off of his coin. Only a stupid Rogue Trader treats his Navigators, Astropaths, Priests or, Admech Reps as anything other than respected colleagues, as there is no real end to the trouble they can each cause, in ways he's powerless to stop, and that he can be hard-pressed to quell, and while the Void Master and Arms Militant aren't necessarily as ironclad, the RT would be hard-pressed to do their jobs to their skill, and probably should appreciate their advantages. The Seneshal...that guy knows stuff that could get the RT seized, stripped, broken, or dead. While the RT is "in charge", sometimes the players are well within their rights to remind him that he is more the first among equals, than he is an island unto himself, and without them, he makes no money.

 

/rant

 

I hope that everyone squares things away in your game, and that things go well from there on out.



#24 Errant Knight

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 02:46 PM

This is easy.  Kill him.

 

You don't sound as if your character is frustrated.  You are frustrated.  You, the player.  Are the other players frustrated?  If so, kill the Rogue Trader.  Have yourselves a pow-wow, plot to dethrone him, then kill him.  Then tell the player to not draw up another RT.

 

If the other players aren't as frustrated as you are, then you are in the wrong game.  Find another.



#25 Misha

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:23 PM

This is easy.  Kill him.

 

You don't sound as if your character is frustrated.  You are frustrated.  You, the player.  Are the other players frustrated?  If so, kill the Rogue Trader.  Have yourselves a pow-wow, plot to dethrone him, then kill him.  Then tell the player to not draw up another RT.

 

If the other players aren't as frustrated as you are, then you are in the wrong game.  Find another. Errant Knight said this.

 

I lost you there. So who is frusturated and what the hell are you talking about?



#26 Askil

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:22 AM

This is easy.  Kill him.

 

You don't sound as if your character is frustrated.  You are frustrated.  You, the player.  Are the other players frustrated?  If so, kill the Rogue Trader.  Have yourselves a pow-wow, plot to dethrone him, then kill him.  Then tell the player to not draw up another RT.

 

If the other players aren't as frustrated as you are, then you are in the wrong game.  Find another. Errant Knight said this.

 

I lost you there. So who is frusturated and what the hell are you talking about?

 

The builders of this forum software put is a button with the word "quote" wrtten on the bottom right side of each post. Use it.

 

Errant knight is saying that if the OP is unhappy with the way their game is progressing then they should take steps to change it or walk away, the game is meant to be enjoyable.



#27 Misha

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:36 AM

Thanks for clearing it up and thank you for telling me about the quote here I will try it.

 

 

This is easy.  Kill him.

 

You don't sound as if your character is frustrated.  You are frustrated.  You, the player.  Are the other players frustrated?  If so, kill the Rogue Trader.  Have yourselves a pow-wow, plot to dethrone him, then kill him.  Then tell the player to not draw up another RT.

 

If the other players aren't as frustrated as you are, then you are in the wrong game.  Find another. Errant Knight said this.

 

I lost you there. So who is frusturated and what the hell are you talking about?

 

The builders of this forum software put is a button with the word "quote" wrtten on the bottom right side of each post. Use it.

 

Errant knight is saying that if the OP is unhappy with the way their game is progressing then they should take steps to change it or walk away, the game is meant to be enjoyable.

 



#28 Tenebrae

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:02 AM

The builders of this forum software put is a button with the word "quote" wrtten on the bottom right side of each post. Use it.

While I don't disagree with the intent of your statement, I should point out that the forum software, especially the quoting feature, works very poorly. It is infact the worst forum software I recall having used, ever. and I used to read news in netscape 1.

#29 Errant

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 06:44 AM

While I don't disagree with the intent of your statement, I should point out that the forum software, especially the quoting feature, works very poorly. It is infact the worst forum software I recall having used, ever. and I used to read news in netscape 1.

Clearly you weren't around for the original version of the forum software :(


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#30 Tenebrae

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:40 AM

 

While I don't disagree with the intent of your statement, I should point out that the forum software, especially the quoting feature, works very poorly. It is infact the worst forum software I recall having used, ever. and I used to read news in netscape 1.

Clearly you weren't around for the original version of the forum software :(

If it was worse than this? Nope.

And happier for it I'm sure.



#31 Fgdsfg

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:41 AM

It was way, way, way, way, way worse. The forum software used now is heavens compared to the old one. Forget about even trying to nest quotes before, or breaking parts out of individual quotations.

The current software works acceptably well. The old software made me want to cry.

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#32 Tenebrae

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:25 AM

The current software makes me want to cry.

I don't even want to think about the previous versions then.



#33 Godgolden

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 03:57 AM

Personally I would talk to the GM about it.

 

If the guy is just bad at roleplaying it isnt his fault, teach him!

 

If the guy is roleplaying his character as an inept RT then I would imagine he is more than willing to accept any fallout from your in character selves.

 

When I started RT as a GM, I straight up told everyone that the RT is first amoungst equals, so he is a figurehead but everybody has equal amount of pull, RT decides to vent the lance batteries because a menial down there looked at him wrong, if this is just fun roleplaying a insane RT then fine! if not let people veto him, after all he's giving orders to equals.

 

Im just worried the atmosphere of your group will become untenable if you kill his character and he's a touchy player, you guys need a conflab about it.


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#34 Errant Knight

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:38 AM

RPGs with military themes (or paramilitary, in this case) can be very difficult for gamers.  There's this whole thing about ranks and giving orders and that often doesn't sit well.  If conflicts with having fun.  This is something to take into consideration before even starting up a game, especially in the world of the internet, where you often have strangers sitting down to play with each other.  If the RT is a problem, the whole game can crash.

 

There are ways for GMs to design a RT game so everyone remains involved.  Perhaps the ship is only a small part of a larger Dynasty and characters with complaints have a way to appeal to a higher authority.  Maybe the ship has been funded by outside parties and they have placed representatives (other PCs) on board to see to their interests.  Maybe those characters have certain authorities.  You only have to look into the Age of Sail for examples of these arrangements.

 

It could be that one character is in charge of the ship outside of combat and another is in charge during combat.  Maybe one character makes the business decisions and therefore decides on which endeavors to pursue and where the ship goes next.

 

There are many ways to share decision-making.  See to it that everyone has fun.



#35 Radwraith

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 04:57 PM

While I agree with the Everyone having fun part explicitely, Starship culture in 40k is modeled heavily after colonial era sailing ships. Especially in RT where the captain basically carries a letter of Marque on Steroids! Bear in mind though, While the Rogue traders power is technically absolute onboard, there are a lot of other Organizations that are technically independent of his authority working to keep his ship functional. Even on a modern day Naval vessel, It is a foolish Captain that constantly ignores the advice of his senior officers! The bottom line for me though is this: Rogue trader, OW and other such games are as mentioned, Military flavored! That means rank structures are part of the game. The Gm does not have to force it to be tedious but also, if the players want to ignore it completely that is poor roleplaying! This is why I ask my players to elect their captain! They may promote themselves at this discussions but, whoever they choose from that point forward is the CO.

 

Side note; There is one possible exception to the above mentioned rant: In history a Vessel often had a Master and a Commander. The ship's Master (The RT.) was it's owner. That individual made their overall intentions known to the ships Commander (Who could be any other character.) who was responsible for commanding the vessel itself. The modern day concept of an executive officer is actually descended from this relationship.  



#36 korjik

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:54 PM

If the player really dosent know he is causing problems, then a mutiny is the worst possible thing the group could do. At best all it would do is kill the game, and what is the point of playing a game you are about to kill? At worst it will cause alot of bad feelings for no reason.

 

If you are not having fun playing, the first step is to find out if others have the same problem. If not, then the problem is probably that the game isnt what you want to play. Not much you can do about that.

 

If others are having problems too, then talk with the player causing the problems. He may just not understand, or is trying to do something you dont understand. Work out what you all expect and desire from the game and see what you can do to get there.

 

On the other hand, he may just be really bad and there is nothing that anyone else will do about that. Then it may be time to play a different game.



#37 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 04:15 AM

While I agree with the Everyone having fun part explicitely, Starship culture in 40k is modeled heavily after colonial era sailing ships. Especially in RT where the captain basically carries a letter of Marque on Steroids! Bear in mind though, While the Rogue traders power is technically absolute onboard, there are a lot of other Organizations that are technically independent of his authority working to keep his ship functional. Even on a modern day Naval vessel, It is a foolish Captain that constantly ignores the advice of his senior officers! The bottom line for me though is this: Rogue trader, OW and other such games are as mentioned, Military flavored! That means rank structures are part of the game. The Gm does not have to force it to be tedious but also, if the players want to ignore it completely that is poor roleplaying! This is why I ask my players to elect their captain! They may promote themselves at this discussions but, whoever they choose from that point forward is the CO.

 

Side note; There is one possible exception to the above mentioned rant: In history a Vessel often had a Master and a Commander. The ship's Master (The RT.) was it's owner. That individual made their overall intentions known to the ships Commander (Who could be any other character.) who was responsible for commanding the vessel itself. The modern day concept of an executive officer is actually descended from this relationship.  

 

 

Exactly. We tend to use this concept to give Void-master characters leverage - Navigators, Confessors, Astropaths, and Enginseers have organisations sat behind them who out-mass the Rogue Trader dynasty several times over, and the Arch-Militant has the advantage of bolt weapons set for fully autodiplomatic fire.


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#38 Magellan

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:59 AM

While I agree with the Everyone having fun part explicitely, Starship culture in 40k is modeled heavily after colonial era sailing ships. Especially in RT where the captain basically carries a letter of Marque on Steroids! Bear in mind though, While the Rogue traders power is technically absolute onboard, there are a lot of other Organizations that are technically independent of his authority working to keep his ship functional. Even on a modern day Naval vessel, It is a foolish Captain that constantly ignores the advice of his senior officers! The bottom line for me though is this: Rogue trader, OW and other such games are as mentioned, Military flavored! That means rank structures are part of the game. The Gm does not have to force it to be tedious but also, if the players want to ignore it completely that is poor roleplaying! This is why I ask my players to elect their captain! They may promote themselves at this discussions but, whoever they choose from that point forward is the CO.

 

Side note; There is one possible exception to the above mentioned rant: In history a Vessel often had a Master and a Commander. The ship's Master (The RT.) was it's owner. That individual made their overall intentions known to the ships Commander (Who could be any other character.) who was responsible for commanding the vessel itself. The modern day concept of an executive officer is actually descended from this relationship.  

 

I agree with this. The rogue trader may be the boss, but you can only push humanity's best and brightest so far, and you'll be hard-pressed to keep your command crew around if you treat them like crap. They are amazing individuals and would most likely know that - an Explorator leaving your crew because of your incompetence and spreading word of it through the Mechanicus would most likely be devastating, for instance. These people know your secrets and have contacts and powers of their own, even beyond just shooting you in the back.

 

And by whatever you hold sacred, talk to your group about the problem. You'd be surprised how many people are willing to behave like adults if you treat them like it. Not that the internet is any place to learn that lesson.


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#39 Errant Knight

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 02:19 PM

The Age of Sail, Age of Discovery, and Colnial Era actually have many different examples of shared power aboard a ship.  Take the Golden Age of Piracy as one example.  Captains were elected.  They had a Sailing Master, who had command of the ship outside combat.  Then they had a Captain, who commanded during battle.  There were exceptions to that, of course, and they were some of the most famous pirates, being good at two things.  In the Dutch Indiamen, a Secretary General would be in charge of things ashore and the Master Pilot would be in charge of things aboard.  On a Portugese Indiaman, one guy was in charge of the expedition as a whole while each ship had its captain AND another guy in charge of negotating business deals.

 

You can even go with a multi-ship Dynasty, if power sharing is an issue.  It's not too difficult to draw up a 20-30 SP ship, and you can easily get 2 ships that way, and maybe even a third if you skimp.  That might be a fun campaign.


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#40 Askil

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:58 PM

Consider that your PC Rogue Trader may very well not be head of his dynasty this means his shipmates although technically subordinates mayenjoy more experience and greater esteem in the eyes of the actual head.

 

I ran a campaign on this premise with a recovering drug addict partygirl grandaughter of a semi-retired RT who manages his small fleet of ships from a comfy mansion somewhere.

 

All the shipmates had secrets from the old man to keep things on the straight and narrow while they set out to recover the family warrant of trade from the scene of the RTs sister`s mysterious death.

 

Only the RT knew what they were doing and why.

Only the senecal knew the warrant they had with them was fake (he had made it himself under orders.)

Only the priest knew the sister had been killed on the orders of a bishop with a grude against the dynasty.

Only the explorator knew the codephrase to engage/disengage the warp core.

 

Everyone was under orders to depose the partygirl RT if she slipped back into obscura and alcoholism or endangered the ship.

 

This setup means even the RT can be sidelined if the cre feel they make a bad call, because at the end of the day they all aswer to someone else. Even if that person really doesn`t care about the small details as muchas ultimate profit.

 

in essence:

 

RT "I`ll take the call"

crewman: "I can`t let you do that sir, it`s too risky, let that new guy.... larry, do it"

RT "oh...alright I suppose. Nice red shirt you`ve got there Larry."

Larry "Thank you sir. Arghhh the voices! I can taste all the beige carpet in the universe" *dies*

Crewman "You see sir? Far too dangerous, your father would have had my bollocks if you`d been hurt."

RT "Fair enough... so what are we going to do about Larry?"

Crewman "Who?"


Edited by Askil, 28 July 2014 - 04:13 PM.

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