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Collect call from the warp, will you accept the charges?


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#1 Hoodlums

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 11:32 AM

I have to gripe for a moment and then pose a question. The rogue trader in my campaign is very inept when it comes to role playing and as a whole leading a group of PC's. The first session he derailed the DM completely and cause a PC to not even get introduced, he's over and over again underwhelmed me while in conversations with npc's and in combat as a whole. If it wasn't for the void master or myself I'm not sure if the group would have progressed the disturbingly minute amount it has so far.

So all of this frustration comes to a boiling point when last session we were being hailed over our ships communication relay from a completely shut down, warp tainted ship.

"I'll take the call" words that will forever be infamous amongst the players. He has the call routed to a channel he and the void master have permissions to use and that's when things go downhill. The bridge instantly loses power and Elouise (void master) takes insanity and corruption points, is nearly possessed by a warp entity but somehow manages to incapacitate herself by busting her head, and void suit helmet on the side of a console; she is forced to burn a fate point. I manage to carry her out of the bridge after forcing my way the the powered down door with my thunder hammer.

The rogue trader suffers nothing for his mistake besides being shot several times by some guards who seemed to be charmed or possessed.

My question is this, full on knowing out go character that this rogue trader will be the death of the group and the ship as a whole what would you do? In character this lord-captain has some pretty mean dirt on my character, almost killed the void master and left the whole crew demoralized on several occasions. The astropath hates him, the npc helmsman loathes him. Overall it's on the edge of mutiny.

Give me feedback!

Edited by Hoodlums, 23 July 2014 - 11:33 AM.


#2 Fgdsfg

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:27 PM

When you say "The rogue trader in my campaign is very inept when it comes to role playing and as a whole leading a group of PC's.", do you mean that the person playing it is inept at roleplaying, hurting the game and his decision-making, or that he's actually good enough of a player to roleplay an inept character?

Because it's deeply relevant to the issue and I want to make sure.

Edited by Fgdsfg, 23 July 2014 - 01:28 PM.

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#3 Hoodlums

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:52 PM

When you say "The rogue trader in my campaign is very inept when it comes to role playing and as a whole leading a group of PC's.", do you mean that the person playing it is inept at roleplaying, hurting the game and his decision-making, or that he's actually good enough of a player to roleplay an inept character?

Because it's deeply relevant to the issue and I want to make sure.

Inept as in his decision-making caused a PC to take a sizable amount of insanity and corruption points and almost die.



#4 Amazing Larry

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:10 PM

Did the astropath at least get a psi willpower save vs attempted posession? Otherwise the GM is doing it wrong.



#5 WeedyGrot

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:25 PM

In character mutiny sounds like a fairly appropriate way to proceed.


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#6 Errant

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:01 PM

The first session he derailed the DM completely and cause a PC to not even get introduced

How do you even manage that? You're on a ship with thousands of crew members. Unless you've got some special snowflake story that dictates you arrive aboard the vessel with pomp, circumstance and a carriage train of a thousand servitors, it should be more than enough for an NPC adept to go 'By the way m'lord, the new x has arrived to replace Madam Fluffbottom after her incident with the plasma gun. The new one has of course been trained in the 'No touchy the roguey tradery weaponry' laws. They will be on the bridge shortly.' Hell, Origin Path dictates that in most cases your PCs should have met each other on at least one intersection point in the past.

 

As for the Rogue Trader, maybe have a chat with the him and the GM out of game first. It could well be that the rogue trader character simply doesn't appreciate the dangers of the warp, or the player didn't pay attention to the description and realise that it's completely shut down and full of daemon radio.



#7 Erathia

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:07 PM

 

As for the Rogue Trader, maybe have a chat with the him and the GM out of game first. It could well be that the rogue trader character simply doesn't appreciate the dangers of the warp, or the player didn't pay attention to the description and realise that it's completely shut down and full of daemon radio

 

It is definitely important to have a talk with your player out of game. Sit him down and let him know about the setting, and the importance of working as a group, and talk about what it is he wants out of the game because maybe he doesn't want to roleplay and likes high adventure and impulsive decisions even if they're sub-optimal.

 

In-character, I agree that a crew mutiny is perhaps in the works, but this is not necessarily a bad thing. Fluff-wise, a Void Master can very easily be the captain of her vessel who the crew actually turns to for decision making. If the Rogue Trader again gives an order to take the call, the crew could first look to her for approval, and a microscopic shake of the head could result in a mischevious techspirit preventing the order from going through.

 

I'm very much in favour of egalitarian player decision out of game, and a Rogue Trader can very easily be overridden by his crew and left completely powerless apart from the stamps that he puts on the cheques to pay for his crew's ludicrous gear.

 

I repeat for emphasis, don't assume this is the result of deliberately malicious behaviour on your Rogue Trader. Work together out of game to have fun in game. And if he still doesn't get the message, servitorize him, take a rank in Colchite Servo-Master and take control of him whenever you need cheques signed.


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#8 Erathia

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:08 PM

You're on a ship with thousands of crew members. Unless you've got some special snowflake story that dictates you arrive aboard the vessel with pomp, circumstance and a carriage train of a thousand servitors...

 

 

How in the Warp-Hell else are you supposed to arrive anywhere?


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#9 Hoodlums

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:36 PM

The first session he derailed the DM completely and cause a PC to not even get introduced

How do you even manage that?

He was a PC from an old campaign, confined to a escape pod drifting through space. First session took place on footfall and the rogue trader refused to leave the ship to advance the story. Even after multiple hints that he should be off ship we never got off footfall and that player wasn't introduced. Couldn't have just thrown him into the session because that specific introduction was a adventure seed part of what I'm assuming is the main story arch of this game.

#10 Hoodlums

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:40 PM

Did the astropath at least get a psi willpower save vs attempted posession? Otherwise the GM is doing it wrong.


Astropath wasn't the character almost possessed, the void master was. There was opposed willpower checks, everything was done correctly. The finger pulling the trigger in that scenario is that of the rogue traders, doing as he please unknowing or caring of the repercussions.

#11 WeedyGrot

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:53 PM

 

Astropath wasn't the character almost possessed, the void master was. There was opposed willpower checks, everything was done correctly. The finger pulling the trigger in that scenario is that of the rogue traders, doing as he please unknowing or caring of the repercussions.

 

In fairness that is a legitimate way to play a Rogue Trader.

 

Some people become Rogue Traders because they're a huge problem for everyone around them but they're too important to just disappear so someone signs a warrant, sets them up with some shiny new toys and then points them in a direction where they can be a problem for someone else.


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#12 Errant

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 05:18 PM

 

 The first session he derailed the DM completely and cause a PC to not even get introduced

How do you even manage that?

He was a PC from an old campaign, confined to a escape pod drifting through space. First session took place on footfall and the rogue trader refused to leave the ship to advance the story. Even after multiple hints that he should be off ship we never got off footfall and that player wasn't introduced. Couldn't have just thrown him into the session because that specific introduction was a adventure seed part of what I'm assuming is the main story arch of this game.

"Mi'lord, the proximity augurs have just detected an object breaching the hull of cargo bay XIV; the gunwales refused to fire on it for some reason, Emperor only knows why the port's flak didn't catch it either. What would you care for us to do?"

<Is the Rogue Trader interested Y/N>

<if y proceed to meeting PC. For added excitement, escape pod is covered in orks that are on fire.>

<if n proceed to have NPCs meet PC, be awed/intimidated enough to suggest an audience with the Rogue Trader>

 

Honestly, it's like you've never brought the Himalayas to Mohammed before. Personally I've banned 'You picked me up in an escape pod and immediately trusted me enough to become one of your senior crew because I'm a PC' as an intersection point, because it's boring and depends heavily on metagaming to avoid spacing the character or just dropping him off at the next port of call. No void albatrosses on my ship, no sir. Straight back out the airlock with the cursed lot of them.

 

You're on a ship with thousands of crew members. Unless you've got some special snowflake story that dictates you arrive aboard the vessel with pomp, circumstance and a carriage train of a thousand servitors...

 

How in the Warp-Hell else are you supposed to arrive anywhere?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=aEryAoLfnAA


Edited by Errant, 23 July 2014 - 05:19 PM.

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#13 Hoodlums

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 05:34 PM

Astropath wasn't the character almost possessed, the void master was. There was opposed willpower checks, everything was done correctly. The finger pulling the trigger in that scenario is that of the rogue traders, doing as he please unknowing or caring of the repercussions.

 
In fairness that is a legitimate way to play a Rogue Trader.
 
Some people become Rogue Traders because they're a huge problem for everyone around them but they're too important to just disappear so someone signs a warrant, sets them up with some shiny new toys and then points them in a direction where they can be a problem for someone else.

His characters motivation is devotion:duty and that is duty to his crew. He is a bull in a china shop, and I didn't want to bring it up but everyone was telling him to not answer the call out of character.

Bull in the china shop.

#14 Angel of Death

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 05:44 PM


 

You're on a ship with thousands of crew members. Unless you've got some special snowflake story that dictates you arrive aboard the vessel with pomp, circumstance and a carriage train of a thousand servitors...

 

How in the Warp-Hell else are you supposed to arrive anywhere?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=aEryAoLfnAA

 

That seems like a Rogue Trader way of making an entrance


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#15 WeedyGrot

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 06:08 PM

Devotion is the character's motivation but the way the character got a warrant of trade and actually became a Rogue Trader is what I'm talking about. It is described in 'Into The Storm' (Page 38-39).

 

Specifically this one:
 

EXILE

Those who strive to reach the very pinnacles of the Imperium’s towering power structures quite frequently stumble before gaining the ultimate power they crave. Planetary governors might seek to rule an entire sub-sector for example, only to find their rivals aligning against them even as they reach for the prize. A general might seek to rule over the regions he has conquered in the name of the Imperium, unwilling to accept that any other has the right to do so. Such men and women as these are too dangerous to be allowed to gain the power they seek, but also too visible and well connected to quietly remove. Though an assassin’s blade could end the problem, the killing might spark an uprising far more damaging than leaving the target in power. The solution is often to grant the troublesome Imperial servant a Warrant of Trade, giving him license to seek all the power he desires, but to do so far away from the Imperium.

 

It could be a case that Rogue Trader legitimately believes that acting in the way he is will ultimately benefit the crew as look at how well it has worked for him so far. He is a Rogue Trader, one of the few, the proud the insanely wealthy and powerful. How many people in the Imperium can say that?

 

If the player isn't roleplaying this type of character and is just oblivious to the damage he causes then there are two ways to deal with it.

1) Talk to the player or the GM about the issues and sort something out out of character.

2) Deal with it entirely in character. Pretend that the character is a well meaning but powerful incompetent and simply circumvent him whenever it becomes an issue. After all hundreds of underlings interpret orders creatively so when the Rogue Trader says "Put that call from the demon ship through to the main console and make it snappy!" a creative voidmaster (IE the one who actually pushes the buttons to make the ship do things) could simply route easy listening music through the console and then look confused when questioned. "No sir I don't know why they'd hail us just to play music. Perhaps that ship is damaged and that is all it can do."

 

Note option 2) is likely to only be a short term fix at best.


Edited by WeedyGrot, 23 July 2014 - 06:30 PM.


#16 Cavgunner

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 06:24 PM

Give me feedback!


To be totally blunt... why is this even a question? If your group is stumbling so badly because of one bad player then you have a few choices:

1. Talk it out with the player in question.
2. Talk it out with the GM.
3. Leave.

Simple!
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#17 Amazing Larry

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 01:48 AM

If he's really that self destrouctive and you want to be rid of him the best thing you can do is to just let him self destruct, let him make his dumb blunders and let him eat the consequences.



#18 Magellan

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 02:28 AM

Everyone else has already shown their work, so I'm gonna take the shortcut and just post my answer: talk to your group.


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#19 Fgdsfg

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:37 AM

When you say "The rogue trader in my campaign is very inept when it comes to role playing and as a whole leading a group of PC's.", do you mean that the person playing it is inept at roleplaying, hurting the game and his decision-making, or that he's actually good enough of a player to roleplay an inept character?

Because it's deeply relevant to the issue and I want to make sure.

Inept as in his decision-making caused a PC to take a sizable amount of insanity and corruption points and almost die.

Yes, but did he do that because the player is a bad player, or because the player is a good player playing a bad Rogue Trader?

Depending on which, there's two completely different approaches. If it's a bad player, you have to talk to him about his playstyle, give him hints and help him play properly, and he's probably been making mistakes and want to do better, or he's doing it on purpose and you should kick him because he's an asshat that has no real wish to play well with others.

If he's a good player playing a bad Rogue Trader, he'll probably be fine with the character's reaction to his actions, and as a player, accept that his rogue trader, inept as he is, is hated aboard the ship, and when the mutiny comes, he'll probably play it well and not take personal issue with it, since he has been playing this inept rogue trader on purpose.

In fairness that is a legitimate way to play a Rogue Trader.

Some people become Rogue Traders because they're a huge problem for everyone around them but they're too important to just disappear so someone signs a warrant, sets them up with some shiny new toys and then points them in a direction where they can be a problem for someone else.

Exactly. In one game, I played the Rogue Trader, and I was eccentric to say the least. Insane-but-not-psychotic, with obvious issues with telling what was real or not. At one point, I ordered my second in command (I actually had two First Officers, the Seneschal and the Void-Master - we never knew who was in charge) to ram a ship, and she just kinda fudged it on purpose without my character noticing. We had a hilarious dynamic between my character and his antics and obvious insanity, throwing himself out of windows and his unconcious seneschal into a mote, and the void-mistress' calm and servant-like demeanour (..Yes... sir. *sigh*).

In another game I played, the Rogue Trader was a decadent, inept man about as skilled as an unarmed monkey. He failed on everything and it became a running joke, because he was constantly trying to live up to the wishes of his father.

Really, Rogue Traders can be just about anyone, and being a Rogue Trader is no guarantee that you're good at anything. Again, the question becomes whether it's an issue with the player or with the character. Because "I'll take the call." is a completely legit response if you are playing an idiot. Hell, you don't have to even be an idiot, you might just not realize (as a character) that this might not be a bad idea (No knowledge of the nature of the warp or chaos can do that).

It sucks that the Void Master had to burn a fate point, but sometimes stuff like that happens. I wasn't happy when I had to burn a fate point after the ship's void master, an Untouchable, decided to stand 2 metres from a daemon I was fighting... with my Psy Blade.. as a Sanctioned Psyker. For three rounds I was trying to grapple the daemon, screaming at her to get away, but nope.

Edited by Fgdsfg, 24 July 2014 - 03:47 AM.

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#20 Askil

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:32 AM

This is the problem with games with a "leader" class.

 

Sometimes the player who wants to be leader turns out to be a bit of a prat and ruins it for everyone else.

 

Mutiny sounds like the way to go, overt of covert is a choice the players will have to make but I suggest you get him addicted to something intensely distacting and get on with running the ship as normal.


Edited by Askil, 25 July 2014 - 01:27 AM.





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