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Clone Wars Separatist Droids


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#1 RLogue177

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:07 PM

I'm coming up with a story/adventure that will include some relics from the past.  Namely, they will be some of the various Separatist droids we see in TCW show episodes and Episodes II and III.

 

As I'm working on their stats, I would definitely like opinions. First of all, I'm thinking along these lines...

 

Battle droids are Minions

Super Battle Droids are Minions

Commando Droids are Minions

Droideka are Rivals

MagnaGuard are Rivals

 

Do these designations seem fitting?  Alternatively, commando droids could be Rivals and droideka could be Minions.  Commando droids work in groups, so I'm thinking Minions, even if they are bit more intelligent and have more useful skills. Droideka are sometimes seen individually or in twos and threes, so with that in mind, I was thinking they would be classified as Rivals.

 

Thoughts?



#2 HappyDaze

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:17 PM

I'd push Super Battle Droids and Commando Droids up to Rivals. I's push Droideka and MagnaGuards up to Nemesis.


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#3 RLogue177

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:22 PM

Oh, look at that! Antiquated Battle Droid, in the EoE (pp. 410), is the TCW battle droid.  No need to create stats for them then!



#4 RLogue177

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:38 PM

I don't know, Happy, that seems a bit much. Super battle droids and commando droids are always fighting in groups of a dozen or more. To have them as Rivals seems like overkill. Same with droideka and MagnaGuards. You can see them in groups of 2 or 3 or 4. As Nemeses, that's a lot!

 

I suppose if there's a single MagnaGuard who was a prime enemy in a story, it might be a Nemesis. But as a (small) group of Nemeses attacking the PCs all at once? I think that's overpowered.

 

But I could be wrong on that idea!



#5 CaptainRaspberry

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:20 PM

A MagnaGuard as Nemesis makes sense, not so much the Droideka.

 

As for a commando droid, I'd go for either Rival or Nemesis, myself. I had a player who used a reprogrammed commando droid as her character, and it worked out pretty well. As they're depicted in the show, I'd go for Rival -- they're often pretty tough to kill. However, if you're going by the fluff, it would probably qualify as a Nemesis.


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#6 kinnison

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 12:17 AM

They are designed to be something that can be taken out, and allow players to "mow" through them.

 

Droidekas and Magnaguards as Rivals, Tactician Droids as Nemesis, rest minons

 

Now granted I can see the Superbattle droids and Commando Droids with better armor (soak) and you could easily throw in a Rival 'Sargent' to help them out.


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#7 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:17 AM

Agreed. I'd say stick with rivals except for tactical droids and commando droid 'sergeants'.

 

Even clankers tend to turn up mob-handed.

 

Magnaguards - that I can see. They're meant to be able to fight Jedi, so a nemesis is fair enough.


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#8 Talkie Toaster

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:58 AM

I just wrote up some stats for them too- I went with B1/Minion, B2/Rival, Droideka/Nemesis.

 

Whilst in the films & games B2s always appear in large groups, that's against equally large squads of clones and high-XP Jedi. Against regular fringers, a B2 should be an actual threat IMO, something that stands out from the crowd of mook B1s- more akin to the threat posed by Security Droids (which are rivals). After all, they *are* military hardware.

 

Droidekas are at least narratively presented as a huge threat to even high-XP Jedi. They make sense to be Nemisises- PCs should be panicking if they encounter one.


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#9 RLogue177

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 06:44 AM

I forgot tactical droids! I also did a little reading in the wookieepedia about Baktoid Combat Automata and the droid models they created.

 

Sooo.... With your opinions so far, I'm looking at these designations:

 

 

Battle droid (Minion). The stats for these are already in the EoE core book

 

Super battle droid (Rival)

Ultra battle droid (Rival)

Commando droid (Rival)

Tactical droid (Rival)

 

Droideka (Nemesis)

Super tactical droid (Nemesis)

MagnaGuard (Nemesis)

 

 

I'm still on the fence about having droideka being classified as Nemesis. I can see it, but I can also see them just being very capable Rivals.  Same with tactical droids really. I can see them as Nemeses, they certainly tend to command hordes of battle droids.


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#10 kaosoe

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 07:11 AM

I like the idea of Super Battle Droids being Rivals and Droideka's being very capable Rivals. Give the destroyers Range Defense and a rank or 2 in adversary to represent their shields.


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#11 RLogue177

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 05:31 PM

Okay, here's my initial stab at super battle droids.  Please compare them to the stats for regular ol' battle droids from the EoE, pp. 410. They are up-armored and armed versions of the basic clankers.

 

I went back to the idea of them as Minions instead of Rivals because their entry in the wookieepedia says that, although they are less dependent on a central command than the B1s, they are still better with it than without it. They tend to lose focus. So I thought that sounded less like Rival and more like Minion.  Rivals, I feel can operate independently, and these guys never do.

 

 

Super Battle Droid (Minion)

 

Brawn 2, Agility 3, Intellect 1, Cunning 1, Willpower 1, Presence 1

 

Soak 6, Wound Threshold 8, Melee/Ranged Defense 0/0

 

Skills (group only): Ranged (Light), Gunnery

Talents: none

Abilities: Droid

Equipment: built-in twin blaster pistols (Ranged [Light], Damage 6, Critical 3, Range Medium, Stun Setting, Linked); built-in missile launcher (Gunnery, Damage 12, Critical 4, Range Extreme, Blast 12, Guided 3, Limited Ammo 6)



#12 Ghostofman

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:09 PM

Use the fluff to guide not to dictate your mechanics.

 

Making them rivals would allow them to function as good support elements for low xp encounters, but still give them the staying power needed to allow them to act as your grunt troopers when you get to higher xp numbers.

 

I'd do something more like this:

 

All abilities 1 except agility 2, brawn 3

Soak 5, wt 14, st 10, def 0/0

Athletics 1, Discipline 1, Ranged heavy 2, gunnery 1, Vigilance 1

Adversary 1

Repeating blaster: Ranged heavy, dam 7, crit 3, range medium, autofire, stun setting.

Or

Rocket grenade launcher: gunnery, damage 8, crit 4, range medium, blast 6, slow firing 1

 

This will give you a nasty piece of work that can support b-1s well, or work in their own small teams. It'll give those silly Jedi a challenge, but still be easily greased in a turn on two when the saber really starts swinging.


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#13 RLogue177

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:49 PM

I think that's too powerful. Super battle droids don't give Jedi a challenge, they give clone troopers a challenge. And clone troops are minions too.  I've been rewatching The Clone Wars and supers aren't fielded in singles or small teams, they operate in 10s and 20s, right along side the regular battle droids.

 

There is plenty of room for the commando droid, tactical droid, and droideka as rivals.



#14 Talkie Toaster

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:36 AM

Okay, here's my initial stab at super battle droids.  Please compare them to the stats for regular ol' battle droids from the EoE, pp. 410. They are up-armored and armed versions of the basic clankers.

 

I went back to the idea of them as Minions instead of Rivals because their entry in the wookieepedia says that, although they are less dependent on a central command than the B1s, they are still better with it than without it. They tend to lose focus. So I thought that sounded less like Rival and more like Minion.  Rivals, I feel can operate independently, and these guys never do.

 

 

Super Battle Droid (Minion)

 

Brawn 2, Agility 3, Intellect 1, Cunning 1, Willpower 1, Presence 1

 

Soak 6, Wound Threshold 8, Melee/Ranged Defense 0/0

 

Skills (group only): Ranged (Light), Gunnery

Talents: none

Abilities: Droid

Equipment: built-in twin blaster pistols (Ranged [Light], Damage 6, Critical 3, Range Medium, Stun Setting, Linked); built-in missile launcher (Gunnery, Damage 12, Critical 4, Range Extreme, Blast 12, Guided 3, Limited Ammo 6)

I think the stats are really going to depend on your campaign. You keep referring to the Clone Wars cartoon, if you're trying to emulate large-scale military action then I can see using B2s as minions, sure, but that seems more appropriate for AoR.

 

For EotE, B2s really seem like Rival-quality foes as you don't expect a group of half a dozen career criminals (however heroic they are) to start wading through dozens of rocket-launcher-armed military droids. You can easily have multiple different representations of the same enemy within the rules depending on how you want to use them.

 

Here's what I wrote up:

 

0CMt0Dr.png


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#15 Ghostofman

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:06 AM

Also it sounds like you might want to wait for Arda. If you want to deploy large numbers of troops there's supposed to be rules in there to manage that better then just the basic minion system.

 

Also what your player group looks like will make a difference too. The rival thing I suggested was based on experience with a >400XP one shot I ran a while back. Using a dozen tough rivals made more sense ( and worked better) then using minion groups that the players could eat like stormtrooper gummy candy. If you're looking at more starter quality characters and you want them to face off against larger formations of B-2s, then minions is indeed the way to go.


Edited by Ghostofman, 25 July 2014 - 09:06 AM.

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#16 Joker Two

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:45 PM

Don't get too tied up in whether something is a minion, rival, or nemesis.  The category can easily change depending on the circumstances.

 

For example, if my players ambush a pair of Stormtroopers, they'll probably each be Rival level, since it's more of an individual fight.  But if a full squad is guarding a checkpoint, they'll be two 4-man Minion Groups.


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#17 Ghostofman

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:55 PM

For example, if my players ambush a pair of Stormtroopers, they'll probably each be Rival level, since it's more of an individual fight. 

Just curious, why would you upgrade them to Rival and increase their overall difficulty instead of leaving them as Minions?


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#18 RLogue177

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:46 PM

See, now those explanations (Ghost and Talkie, and Joker too) make sense and bring it into perspective a bit more. Thanks!

 

This story idea I'm working up is definitely more for low level characters. So, Ghost, your version of the B2 was overpowering to me but fits what you needed for your game.

 

The stats you came up with, Talkie, are pretty good and I'll likely use them. And you are absolutely correct about the difference between the scale of a military-based campaign with lots of soldiers/droids fighting vs. a smaller scale game of fringers and criminals. Very good point!

 

Joker's comment reminds me of 7th Sea where today's Villain-level NPC is tomorrow's Henchman-level NPC in a different scenario. It depends on how the NPC is used and what level of importance he is at the time he is encountered.  Even an individual Brute (or Minion) can be important, and a pain to deal with, during specific scenarios!


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#19 Joker Two

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:03 PM

 

For example, if my players ambush a pair of Stormtroopers, they'll probably each be Rival level, since it's more of an individual fight. 

Just curious, why would you upgrade them to Rival and increase their overall difficulty instead of leaving them as Minions?

 

 

My group and I played a lot of WH40k RPG before switching to Edge, and so we generally run grittier, more down-to-earth campaigns.  Specifically, "NPCs are people too".  This means they (generally) want to survive, so where retreat or surrender is a viable option they'll take it, but it also means they fight smart and are proactive, and won't just passively wait for the PCs to do something.

 


Joker's comment reminds me of 7th Sea where today's Villain-level NPC is tomorrow's Henchman-level NPC in a different scenario. It depends on how the NPC is used and what level of importance he is at the time he is encountered.  Even an individual Brute (or Minion) can be important, and a pain to deal with, during specific scenarios!

 

RLogue hit it right on the head here.  Those two Stormtroopers patrolling the back streets near the spaceport while the PCs are trying to free the slaves are incredibly important, plot-wise.  They are struggling to fight off their attackers, alert their commanders, and desperately flee the angry mob of freed slaves drawn by the sounds of the fighting.  The results of this encounter, and the way they are achieved, will have consequences for the rest of the session and probably into the next one or two that follow as well.

 

They'll be Rivals (and I track Strain for Rivals) so that I have more versatility in modeling their response to the ambush and can describe the details of the encounter with more granularity.  Such a plot-critical fight should be the climax of the session, and I'll stretch their Skills, Talents, and Equipment to the max to challenge the players appropriately.  If either of them survive (or die in a spectacular way) they'll probably get names and at least a defining quirk or two, and I'll keep them in the back of my brain (or in my notebook) in case I ever need another Stormtrooper with personality, because the players will certainly remember them.

 

On the other hand, once the governor's been alerted, and the PCs are arming freedbeings and leading them to capture the hangars before the garrison can scramble its TIE Fighters, one or two Stormtroopers don't matter a whole lot.  They're still quite lethal, of course, but with a larger-scale encounter there's no need to track the individuals who make up a crowd, as the upgrades to their Ranged - Heavy from being a Minion Group gets the point across well enough.  When they're torn limb-from-limb by bellowing Wookiees seconds after the TIEs launch, the PC's would rather know whether or not they've convinced the Rebel gunrunner to dump its cargo and help them escape than hear what TK-422 whispers with his dying breath.

 

I'll even change a NPC's status mid-encounter, if circumstances dictate.  The last survivor being interrogated for information or persuaded to defect is a lot more important plot-wise than the seven squadbodies who aren't, and so I'll usually kick him (or her) up to Rival just so I can give the interaction greater detail.


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#20 Ghostofman

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:34 PM

OK, I'm tracking you now, for a scenario like that it makes sense. Thought you were doing something weird like upgrading minions that you just wanted ungrouped or something.


Edited by Ghostofman, 25 July 2014 - 08:34 PM.

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