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Newbie Question: Han and Luke


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#1 Ghaerdon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:34 PM

With all these Falcons taking up the Meta, I'd thought to fly one. So I chose Han Solo + MF + C3P0 + Luke (ya I had something else and can't recall I was so frustrated). Cleaver me I thought.

Then I got confused on the first attack. I got two hits, countered by two evades ... Did Luke trigger? Is it then that I re roll my attack? My Imperial adversary was trying to convince me that I actually hit and he evaded my shots, so he thought Luke didn't get to act.

Advice? Clarification please.

Rebels: 4 X Wings; 3 B Wings; 2 A Wings; 2 Y Wings; 2 E Wing; 5 z95; 1 YT-1300; 1 YT-2400; 2 HWK-290; GR-75; Tantive
Empire: 7 Tie Fighters; 3 Tie Interceptors; 2 Tie Bombers; 1 Tie Advanced; 2 Firespray-31; 2 Lambda Shuttles; 2 Tie Defender; 2 Tie Phantom; Decimator
Scum: (will be getting ... 1 Most Wanted; 2 StarViper; 1 IG-2000; 2 M3-A)


#2 StevenO

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:39 PM

A "hit" in game terms is an attack that has uncancelled [hit] or [crit] dice after the dust has settled.  If your attack produced two [hit] results and then your opponent rolled two [evade] results his Defense will CANCEL your Offense resulting in a MISS which will then trigger the attack via Luke.

 

It seems that your opponent either does not know the rules OR is trying to convince you not to use Luke so that he can improve his chances of staying alive and defeating you.  One is ignorance and the other could be called cheating.


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#3 riplikash

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:41 PM

Yes, Luke triggers.

 

In technical terms an attack is considered to "hit" or "miss" AFTER evades and other effects have been applied. So you did not "hit".

 

The only exception to this rule is Blount, whose card states his attacks count as "Hit"s even if he does no damage.


Edited by riplikash, 22 July 2014 - 04:42 PM.


#4 DV8

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:43 PM

Your adversary was wrong! He evaded your shots, so you would then trigger Luke and attack again. He needs to read page 14 in the rule book!


Edited by DV8, 22 July 2014 - 04:46 PM.

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#5 Zarynterk

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:48 PM

With all these Falcons taking up the Meta, I'd thought to fly one. So I chose Han Solo + MF + C3P0 + Luke (ya I had something else and can't recall I was so frustrated). Cleaver me I thought.

Then I got confused on the first attack. I got two hits, countered by two evades ... Did Luke trigger? Is it then that I re roll my attack? My Imperial adversary was trying to convince me that I actually hit and he evaded my shots, so he thought Luke didn't get to act.

Advice? Clarification please.

 

The next time he pulls this... smash one of his Ties and say "I'm altering the deal... pray I don't alter it any further..."


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Keeping that Imp hand strong...

 

Imp: 8 TIE Fighters, 4 TIE Bombers, 12 TIE Interceptors, 3 TIE Advanced, 4 TIE Phantoms, 3 TIE Defenders, 1 Lambda Shuttle, 2 Firesprays
Reb: 3 A-Wings, 3 B-Wing, 6 X-Wings, 3 Y-Wings, 3 E-Wings, 2 HWK-290, 5 Z-95s, 1 YT-1300, 1 GR-75


#6 Parravon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:49 PM

Next time point your opponent to page 12 and the section under "6. Compare Results".


Rick   -   Hastings, New Zealand

Rebels: 3 X-Wing, 2 A-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 E-Wing, 1 HWK-290, 1 YT-1300

Imperials: 3 TIE Fighters, 3 TIE Int, 1 TIE Adv, 1 TIE Bomber, 1 TIE Phantom, 1 TIE Defender, 1 Firespray-31

Scum & Villainy: 2 Z-95 (planned), 1 Y-Wing (planned) + 1 HWK-290, 1 Y-Wing, 1 Firespray-31 (ready to go)


#7 Ghaerdon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 04:55 PM

OK I was right then, I seriously thought I was loosing my mind and got me as I said, confused.

So if I chose to use Han's effect, reroll my dice ... I would have to reroll all of them, if I still didn't "hit" I would trigger Luke.

I should stick with EEBB or XXBB LOL

Rebels: 4 X Wings; 3 B Wings; 2 A Wings; 2 Y Wings; 2 E Wing; 5 z95; 1 YT-1300; 1 YT-2400; 2 HWK-290; GR-75; Tantive
Empire: 7 Tie Fighters; 3 Tie Interceptors; 2 Tie Bombers; 1 Tie Advanced; 2 Firespray-31; 2 Lambda Shuttles; 2 Tie Defender; 2 Tie Phantom; Decimator
Scum: (will be getting ... 1 Most Wanted; 2 StarViper; 1 IG-2000; 2 M3-A)


#8 Corellian Corvette

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 05:01 PM

how do you have the points for an EEBB?


4 A-wings, 2 E-Wings, 6 X-wings, 2 Y-wings, 3 B-wing, 1 Z-95, 1 HWK-290, 1 YT-1300, 1 YT-2400, 1 GR-75, 1 CR90

1 Decimator, 3 TIE Fighters {o{} |o| {}o}

Favorite Lists: The B's (Oh God Not the B's!), Opticore


#9 Parravon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 05:04 PM

OK I was right then, I seriously thought I was loosing my mind and got me as I said, confused.

So if I chose to use Han's effect, reroll my dice ... I would have to reroll all of them, if I still didn't "hit" I would trigger Luke.

I should stick with EEBB or XXBB LOL

And because Luke's ability is a separate attack, you've got rerolls again.  :)


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Rick   -   Hastings, New Zealand

Rebels: 3 X-Wing, 2 A-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 E-Wing, 1 HWK-290, 1 YT-1300

Imperials: 3 TIE Fighters, 3 TIE Int, 1 TIE Adv, 1 TIE Bomber, 1 TIE Phantom, 1 TIE Defender, 1 Firespray-31

Scum & Villainy: 2 Z-95 (planned), 1 Y-Wing (planned) + 1 HWK-290, 1 Y-Wing, 1 Firespray-31 (ready to go)


#10 Ghaerdon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 05:07 PM

how do you have the points for an EEBB?


I'm sure I had a build with the very basic non named pilots. 27, 27, 22, 22. I may be wrong.
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Rebels: 4 X Wings; 3 B Wings; 2 A Wings; 2 Y Wings; 2 E Wing; 5 z95; 1 YT-1300; 1 YT-2400; 2 HWK-290; GR-75; Tantive
Empire: 7 Tie Fighters; 3 Tie Interceptors; 2 Tie Bombers; 1 Tie Advanced; 2 Firespray-31; 2 Lambda Shuttles; 2 Tie Defender; 2 Tie Phantom; Decimator
Scum: (will be getting ... 1 Most Wanted; 2 StarViper; 1 IG-2000; 2 M3-A)


#11 Ghaerdon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 05:13 PM

OK I was right then, I seriously thought I was loosing my mind and got me as I said, confused.
So if I chose to use Han's effect, reroll my dice ... I would have to reroll all of them, if I still didn't "hit" I would trigger Luke.
I should stick with EEBB or XXBB LOL

And because Luke's ability is a separate attack, you've got rerolls again. :)
OK I was not playing the Han + Luke properly. I won with three hull left, but it was a ***** fest for the hour. He had a Tie swarm. So Rick, if I understand you correctly, even if Luke's roll sucked, I could have rerolled as it was a separate attack?


Told ya I was ignorant. Only flown my Falcon twice.

Edited by Ghaerdon, 22 July 2014 - 05:15 PM.

Rebels: 4 X Wings; 3 B Wings; 2 A Wings; 2 Y Wings; 2 E Wing; 5 z95; 1 YT-1300; 1 YT-2400; 2 HWK-290; GR-75; Tantive
Empire: 7 Tie Fighters; 3 Tie Interceptors; 2 Tie Bombers; 1 Tie Advanced; 2 Firespray-31; 2 Lambda Shuttles; 2 Tie Defender; 2 Tie Phantom; Decimator
Scum: (will be getting ... 1 Most Wanted; 2 StarViper; 1 IG-2000; 2 M3-A)


#12 StevenO

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 05:32 PM

OK I was right then, I seriously thought I was loosing my mind and got me as I said, confused.

So if I chose to use Han's effect, reroll my dice ... I would have to reroll all of them, if I still didn't "hit" I would trigger Luke.
 

 

If you choose to use Han's effect you must reroll all eligible dice.  You don't get to pick and choose.  You must also decide if you want to do this BEFORE your opponent rolls for Defense (although if he doesn't give you time that is bad on his part) and it basically will replace your initial roll.  The roll you are left with it then compared to your opponent's Defense and if there are no [hit] or [crit] results remaining after he does his cancelling your attack will miss and trigger Luke.

 

When you use Luke it is just like you are making another primary weapon attack using Han.  If you don't like the first roll you could reroll the dice using Han's ability.  When you're done rolling you can use the other part of Luke's ability to turn an [eye] result into a [hit] result.  When you are done modifying your attack dice (your opponent must modify them first if he wants to and can) your opponent can roll Defense and see how many [hit] and [crit] results he can cancel out.

 

Crewman Luke (and Gunner) give a ship a Primary Weapon attack IF the ship's initial attack (the source doesn't matter) fails to Hit to the target.  After this extra attack the ship can make no more attacks.  Generally, you look at those two crewmembers as insurance to make sure the Falcon gets to deal damage to one ship each turn.


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#13 Ghaerdon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 05:42 PM

Thank you StevenO that was very helpful.

Rebels: 4 X Wings; 3 B Wings; 2 A Wings; 2 Y Wings; 2 E Wing; 5 z95; 1 YT-1300; 1 YT-2400; 2 HWK-290; GR-75; Tantive
Empire: 7 Tie Fighters; 3 Tie Interceptors; 2 Tie Bombers; 1 Tie Advanced; 2 Firespray-31; 2 Lambda Shuttles; 2 Tie Defender; 2 Tie Phantom; Decimator
Scum: (will be getting ... 1 Most Wanted; 2 StarViper; 1 IG-2000; 2 M3-A)


#14 Parravon

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:16 PM

Yep, the Gunner or Luke are a great insurance policy, especially if your dice rolling sucks. Like mine generally does.


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Rick   -   Hastings, New Zealand

Rebels: 3 X-Wing, 2 A-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 E-Wing, 1 HWK-290, 1 YT-1300

Imperials: 3 TIE Fighters, 3 TIE Int, 1 TIE Adv, 1 TIE Bomber, 1 TIE Phantom, 1 TIE Defender, 1 Firespray-31

Scum & Villainy: 2 Z-95 (planned), 1 Y-Wing (planned) + 1 HWK-290, 1 Y-Wing, 1 Firespray-31 (ready to go)


#15 VanorDM

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:02 AM

Just to add to this, because it often comes up.

If you have Marksmanship on Han and use that for your action. It applies to both attacks, the first one that missed, and the one you make with Luke or Gunner.
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#16 Starnite_IV

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:31 AM

Never mind, answered my own question 2 seconds after I posted


Edited by Starnite_IV, 23 July 2014 - 08:32 AM.


#17 StevenO

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:33 AM

Just to add to this, because it often comes up.

If you have Marksmanship on Han and use that for your action. It applies to both attacks, the first one that missed, and the one you make with Luke or Gunner.

 

Another note about Marksmanship:  While it does work on the initial attack and on the second attack it requires an Action to "turn on" for the round.  This means you aren't using that action to get an Evade token via the Falcon title.  Also note that when it is "on" Marksmanship makes Luke's secondary ability (covert [eye] to [hit]) redundant.

 

Going back to the originally mentioned Han dropping the Falcon title and changing Luke to a Gunner will open up enough points to add Marksmanship instead.  This lowers Han's defensive abilities but can boost his offensive power.



#18 Jo Jo

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:35 AM

Gunner and Luke would be pretty worthless if they didn't trigger if you rolled at least one hit or crit.


"And then, we'll remind the Rebellion what war is all about." 


#19 Otacon

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:25 AM

OK I was right then, I seriously thought I was loosing my mind and got me as I said, confused.

So if I chose to use Han's effect, reroll my dice ... I would have to reroll all of them, if I still didn't "hit" I would trigger Luke.

I should stick with EEBB or XXBB LOL

 

StevenO answered your question, but to more clearly spell out the steps to help others:

 

First attack, Primary or Secondary weapon, starts

You roll attack die

- Defender modifies the attack dice(Elusiveness, Sensor Jammer, R7, etc.)

- You modify attack dice(Focus, Target Lock, Han reroll, etc.)

Defender rolls defense dice

- You modify defense dice(I don't think there are currently any cards that let you do this, but the step is defined)

- Defender modifies defense die

Compare results

- If there is no uncancelled damage, Luke/Gunner triggers...

 

Second Primary weapon Attack starts

- All of the above steps, except for Luke/Gunner triggering, occurs


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